Originally posted by JesusIsAliveinfinite understanding my black ass. if he understood everything he wouldnt send people to hell, hed understand y they did it and accept them.
Physics, biology, and other sciences serve to underscore God's wisdom and power--not to mention His infinite understanding (i.e. His intelligence).
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What fallacy did I make up?
I’m not in the mood for games.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I never said that other religions were not free (they are not but I did not say that is my point). I was making a distinction between the religions of the world and what believers have in Christ. We have a relationship with God (not religion). [B]There is a big difference. A person does not have a relationship with God in Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism, or any other religious system of beliefs. But they do have list of things that they must do everyday in order to attain some level of peace or nirvana. But that is not the case with those who are in Christ. The moment that we confess Jesus as Lord and believe in our heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead, we experience inner peace. This peace is lasting and remains forever because at that precise moment all of our sins have been paid for by Christ shed Blood on the cross.
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There is no difference between “the religions of the world” and “believers have in Christ”. “Believers have in Christ” is just another way of saying Christians, and Christians are a religion of the world (circular reasoning). Also, you say “But they do have list of things that they must do everyday in order to attain some level of peace or nirvana” and then follow with “The moment that we confess Jesus as Lord and believe in our heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead”, that is circular reasoning. You list the things you must do right after disparaging other religions for having list of things to do.
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveI have read the Bible from cover to cover and it is in there as well as gone to church and talked to pastors. Remember that I’m an atheist and that you must prove that your Bible is true since you want me to believe that your words are true, is it not your duty to save me or don’t you care about my soul?
I have read the Bible from cover to cover: it does not exist in the Bible.I don't have to prove anything. Remember: I believe the Bible and accept that its contents are true [b]by faith.
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Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Walk outside and look up. Do you see that large star in the heavens called the sun? How do you think that it got there? Where did the laws that keep it from falling originate?
JIA, the sun doesnt "fall" from its place in the solar System. That is simply a retarded thing to say. And the sun and everything(in our solar System) originated from the gravitational collapse of a gas cloud.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why is it just the right distance to heat the earth and sustain all life yet not too far to freeze the planet's organisms? Nothing just happens. All of life (even in nature) proves that everything is the result of a cause. No human being has the capacity to create a sun let alone the forces that keep it the precise distance from the earth to support all life.
On the first place, it must first be shown that god - your christian god - exists BEFORE ANYTHING can be attributed to his "handiwork." In other words, we cannot assume that this god fine-tuned the universe - like the sun's distance from the earth - to our existence and then turn around and use that assumption to prove god's existence. Yeah, youre using a circular argument again. There is also the problem of recognizing what "fine-tuning" is. There is no objective way to do this. I suppose making Arsenic extremely lethal to most carbon based life form is another example of this all powerful and benevolent designer "fine-tuning" the universe for our sake.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Explain to me where the sun originated without using non-provable, non-verifiable, non-substantiating, and non-observable theories that violate the law of cause and effect.
The stars are borne by the gravitaional collapse of a cloud of gas and stellar formation can be readily seen through telescopes. That is provable, verifiable, substantiating and observable. From there we could infer that our own star, the sun, was formed from similar process. This is basic astronomy.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
All matter/energy obeys the laws of cause and effect; hence, there is no intelligent reason to assert that the sun just came about by accident, randomly. Furthermore, to claim that something has occurred (such as the big bang) you must first explain what caused it. The argument that the universe is the product of an endless cycle of big bangs and collapses contradicts established research. The universe has been proven (at least as empirically as possible) to have had a beginning this explodes the theory that the universe is eternal, and precludes that the universe is the product of a series of big crunches). Moreover, the universe has been shown to be expanding at the same rate that it came into existence (this proves that the universe had a beginning and thus is not eternal).
Let me repeat, the sun is CAUSED by a cloud of gas undergoing gravitaional collapse. Everything in the solar System is caused by this cloud of gas. The sun and the solar system follows your so called law of cause and effect.
Let me remind you, it must first be shown that god - your christian god - exists BEFORE ANYTHING can be attributed to him. In other words, we cannot assume that this christian god of yours has "no cause" or "beyond the concept of space and time" or "wears purple thongs" and then turn around and use those assumptions to prove god's existence. The universe may have a beginning but this none-existant god with unfounded claims of being exempt from the chain of causality is certainly NOT the one who CAUSED it. Something whose existence is not in doubt like the universe has a more credible claim of being "eternal" or "uncaused" compared to a supernatural being with zero credible proof of existence.
All in all, this last post of yours contains only big words. Forceful at first but PLAIN ignorant and/or LACK substance once you sift through. How pathetic. Im still expecting a non-circular argument for god's existence coming from you. Here is a tip: Avoid assuming what is true what youre trying to prove is true.
Originally posted by queeqI say he must prove it because this is what he does all the time, you ask a question he says you must prove it first. It is his fun little way of dogging questions as he keeps doing to mine and everyone else. It gets really annoying so I decided to have some fun and play his dumb inconsiderate game. 😄
Who says he MUST prove it? That's your assumption. You're free to believe what you want, he's free to tell you what he believes. Why do you bring in stuff that MUST be done, according to you. You sound like a pastor.
Originally posted by Templares
JIA, the sun doesnt "fall" from its place in the solar System. That is simply a retarded thing to say. And the sun and everything(in our solar System) originated from the gravitational collapse of a gas cloud.
You have the cart before the horse (what caused the purported gas cloud?).
On the first place, it must first be shown that god - your christian god - exists BEFORE ANYTHING can be attributed to his "handiwork." In other words, we cannot assume that this god fine-tuned the universe - like the sun's distance from the earth - to our existence and then turn around and use that assumption to prove god's existence. Yeah, youre using a circular argument again. There is also the problem of recognizing what "fine-tuning" is. There is no objective way to do this. I suppose making Arsenic extremely lethal to most carbon based life form is another example of this all powerful and benevolent designer "fine-tuning" the universe for our sake.
It is what it is: common sense (not to call into question your intelligence though). All I ask you to do is look at the facts. This universe and the earth can be studied with mathematic precision and shown to obey the laws of cause and effect. Everything in this universe is subject to definite laws not random, chance occurrence. The planet earth is a well-ordered, organized, system that has been observed and proven to be governed by predictable natural laws. This is the evidence that you seek. What do you know about DNA? Need I say more? The evidence for God's existence is overwhelming obvious. You wouldn't look at a newborn baby and conclude that child has no intelligent designer (i.e. parents) would you? You couldn't observe a rolex watch, diamond ring, or sports car and come to the deduction that no intelligent designer exists could you? How can you look at all of the sophistication and obvious proof that this universe with its laws and this planet with its complication has everything that insects, animals, and human beings need to exist, and somehow dismiss it as an accident? Accidents don't produce organized systems and definite, workable, calculable laws that govern advanced organisms, and sustains their very existence. Therefore, this universe and earth could not have come about apart from a powerful, all-wise Creator.
The stars are borne by the gravitaional collapse of a cloud of gas and stellar formation can be readily seen through telescopes. That is provable, verifiable, substantiating and observable. From there we could infer that our own star, the sun, was formed from similar process. This is basic astronomy.
That's fine that you believe that but you still have the cart before the horse. Where did the gas cloud come from?
Let me repeat, the sun is CAUSED by a cloud of gas undergoing gravitaional collapse. Everything in the solar System is caused by this cloud of gas. The sun and the solar system follows your so called law of cause and effect.
If everything is caused by a cloud of gas please explain the cause that produced the effect of cloud-gas mixture. Remember: everything in this universe is the result of a cause.
Let me remind you, it must first be shown that god - your christian god - exists BEFORE ANYTHING can be attributed to him. In other words, we cannot assume that this christian god of yours has "no cause" or "beyond the concept of space and time" or "wears purple thongs" and then turn around and use those assumptions to prove god's existence. The universe may have a beginning but this none-existant god with unfounded claims of being exempt from the chain of causality is certainly NOT the one who CAUSED it. Something whose existence is not in doubt like the universe has a more credible claim of being "eternal" or "uncaused" compared to a supernatural being with zero credible proof of existence.
The evidence of God's existence is right before you but you cannot accept it. You can admit that a rolex watch has a designer but the universe and earth and all life which exceeds that watch in terms of complication had no designer, right? Wrong. This is an obvious double-standard of the highest order.
All in all, this last post of yours contains only big words. Forceful at first but PLAIN ignorant and/or LACK substance once you sift through. How pathetic. Im still expecting a non-circular argument for god's existence coming from you. Here is a tip: Avoid assuming what is true what youre trying to prove is true.
What you are witnessing is your own refusal to apply the same logic to this sophisticated, well-ordered system as you do to other complex things that are created.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I have read the Bible from cover to cover and it is in there as well as gone to church and talked to pastors. Remember that I’m an atheist and that you must prove that your Bible is true since you want me to believe that your words are true, is it not your duty to save me or don’t you care about my soul?
Now it appears that you are either in denial or just plain speaking untruth. Just because someone has the title of "pastor" that does not mean that he/she is educated in the Bible. I know what I am talking about. What you stated is nowhere near the Bible. Again, I am not obligated to prove that the Bible is true. My job is simply to present the Scriptures to you, what you do or don't do with it is your business.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I’m not in the mood for games.There is no difference between “the religions of the world” and “believers have in Christ”. “Believers have in Christ” is just another way of saying Christians, and Christians are a religion of the world (circular reasoning). Also, you say “But they do have list of things that they must do everyday in order to attain some level of peace or nirvana” and then follow with “The moment that we confess Jesus as Lord and believe in our heart that God has raised Jesus from the dead”, that is circular reasoning. You list the things you must do right after disparaging other religions for having list of things to do.
Yes, there is a difference between the religions of the world and what believers have in Christ. Everyone is not a Christian.
Originally posted by AngryManatee
Wrong. God is about as rational an answer as me saying that a giant space-chode blew its load into a starchild's vag and that created our universe. Both cannot be proven. The difference between your knowledge and the knowledge of those physicists, biologists, chemists, etc. etc. is that their knowledge is beneficial to society. Yours is an easy answer to explain something that you have no decent understanding of. People like you will continue to spew out your useless information while physicists, biologists, chemists, etc. etc. will continue to expand humanity's spectrum of knowledge, which will continue to result in our further advancement in technology and also our understanding of the universe we live in. The ideas you preach will benifit no one, because they are merely answers to satisfy your conscience.
No, because your explanation does not follow already established laws; hence, your answer makes no sense. Their research serves to point up the fact that this universe and earth did not come about by chance.
Originally posted by Da Pittman
I say he must prove it because this is what he does all the time, you ask a question he says you must prove it first. It is his fun little way of dogging questions as he keeps doing to mine and everyone else. It gets really annoying so I decided to have some fun and play his dumb inconsiderate game. 😄
I am not playing games. You ask me to prove something and I appropriately ask you to disprove something. Where's the problem?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
No, because your explanation does not follow already established laws; hence, your answer makes no sense. Their research serves to point up the fact that this universe and earth did not come about by chance.
Yeah you're right. You choose to follow scientific laws that were top of the field over a century ago. Their research isn't specifically designed to disprove some god like you claim it does. It only sets out to see how the universe was created. It's one of the reasons the new LHC is being constructed.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I am not playing games. You ask me to prove something and I appropriately ask you to disprove something. Where's the problem?
The difference is in the word you use as compared to what others use. We ask to prove. You ask to disprove, which implies you are right based on some sort of non-existent evidence.
Also our perfect distance from the sun is not the only thing that makes our location adequate. It's also the thickness of our atmosphere and the fact that our planet has a magnetic field, which Mars no longer has. There are more factors than this, but I have classes, and bothering to search them would amount to trying to teach a cow Laplace Transformations.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Yes, there is a difference between the religions of the world and what believers have in Christ. Everyone is not a Christian.
I know you really want to be special, and that is what is really behind this idea that there is a difference between you and other Christians. However, this kind of point of view leads to ego driven delusions.
"infinite understanding my black ass. if he understood everything he wouldnt send people to hell, hed understand y they did it and accept them."---chickenlover
You know, when you don't use complete sentences and misspell words and use no punctuation marks whatsoever, it really makes it hard to take you seriously.
I don't think someone saying Christianity differs from other religions is just that person wanting to be special or causes ego-driven delusions. If all religions were the same, there wouldn't be forums like this. Religions have fundamental differences, which is why people choose to follow certain ones or choose not to follow one at all. Christianity is the only religion I know of that focuses on God trying to be close to humans rather than humans reaching out to God. An example of this is that no other religion has the main point of God coming down and becoming a human. That alone makes it different. It's not "proof" as everyone here is obsessed with, but it does make Christianity distinct. The fact that more people think it's politically correct to make jokes that insult Christians makes Christianity different. So much sensitivity-training and diversity-training sessions are put into schools and organizations so that Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and others will feel accepted. However, Christianity is usually left out of this. Before you can say that it's because most people are Christian, let me correct you. While Christianity is still the most popular religion, it does not mean everyone is a Christian. The number of people following Islam is growing by the day, and several Americans are agnostic or atheist.
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveBecause this is what you do all the time, I will say that the color is red and you will say prove to me that it is not red. This is a childish game that you like to play over and over.
I am not playing games. You ask me to prove something and I appropriately ask you to disprove something. Where's the problem?