Can you handle the Truth?

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
Was the universe itself created by the society for their own personal needs?

The more intelligence you have, the closer to the workings of the universe/truth you actually are.
Humans being a prime example of this.

The truth is how things work, aka God.

Humans aim to know things, and there are things to know, hence people believe in a God.
We could have easily been created by randomness, but we are infact created from a knowable universe which is just as capable of truth as we are.

The truth is that we do not know all the answers, not even close so how does not knowing the answers means that people believe in God?

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
The universe was not created.

Which god are you talking about?
Gods are the invention of man.

The idea of a god is like a book mark for those parts of the universe we are clueless to understand.

So it was not created by man. Yet it is still true.
So truth is both a relative and physical thing.

2. Just because there's many Gods doesn't mean they're all simply made up. If anything, they're all true to some degree atleast. What is a God that can only control thunder? (Yet can still speak and make humans, and breed, for some reason). It just proves that they don't have unlimited power and are therefore not 100% real Gods but infact angels or demons set over the forces of nature.

Why I choose my specific belief is personal, and is most likely not believable to you anyway simply because you refuse to believe in any God, therefore you lack the sufficient foresight to understand.

3. Actually, God is the bookmark for the things we do understand.

Because the sustainer of universe is capable of producing intellect, which explains how the laws of physics not only exist but are also in a logical working order constantly, so they are understandable.

Originally posted by Red Nemesis
This doesn't even count as begging the question because you haven't provided any proof or evidence.

What would the distinction be? You say 'know[b]able' universe; how is that different from a random universe? [/B]

Infact, I completely agree with you, if the universe was not capable of being logical like ourselves then we could not exist.

I take back what i said about randomness, clearly i was wrong, getting carried away with myself.

Within a solidly random (ever changing in every way) universe we would fail to exist because we would never stay in existance. The only "self" that would exist, would be chaos itself.

But regarding evidence, which many claim to be reliable, apparantly the universe has existed billions of years without a single change of the laws of physics. Not one tad. So, unless science is actually wrong for once, I'd sooner say a self-aware creator is a fanciable option.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
2. Just because there's many Gods doesn't mean they're all simply made up. If anything, they're all true to some degree atleast. What is a God that can only control thunder? (Yet can still speak and make humans, and breed, for some reason). It just proves that they don't have unlimited power and are therefore not 100% real Gods but infact angels or demons set over the forces of nature.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
Why I choose my specific belief is personal, and is most likely not believable to you anyway simply because you refuse to believe in any God, therefore you lack the sufficient foresight to understand.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
3. Actually, God is the bookmark for the things we do understand.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
Because the sustainer of universe is capable of producing intellect, which explains how the laws of physics not only exist but are also in a logical working order constantly, so they are understandable.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
1. So it was not created by man. Yet it is still true.
So truth is both a relative and physical thing.

What is true?

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
2. Just because there's many Gods doesn't mean they're all simply made up. If anything, they're all true to some degree atleast. What is a God that can only control thunder? (Yet can still speak and make humans, and breed, for some reason). It just proves that they don't have unlimited power and are therefore not 100% real Gods but infact angels or demons set over the forces of nature.

Angels and demons are all man made. For example, someone gets sick. We have no idea why they are sick, so we say they are possessed by a demon. The truth is that this person came down with a virus, or whatever. The idea of a demon or angel is a place holder for what we do not know, and when we learn what is really going no, the idea of a demon goes away.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
Why I choose my specific belief is personal, and is most likely not believable to you anyway simply because you refuse to believe in any God, therefore you lack the sufficient foresight to understand.

So, if I don’t believe like you do, then I lack foresight and understanding? You have no idea what foresight and understanding I have. To make that kind of statement without know anything about me is prejudice and ignorant.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
3. Actually, God is the bookmark for the things we do understand.

You obviously did not understand what I was saying, because god cannot represent what we know. That would require that we understand god, and all religions agree that we humans do not understand god.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
Because the sustainer of universe is capable of producing intellect, which explains how the laws of physics not only exist but are also in a logical working order constantly, so they are understandable.

The universe is self contained, and does not need to be sustained.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

So, if I don’t believe like you do, then I lack foresight and understanding? You have no idea what foresight and understanding I have. To make that kind of statement without know anything about me is prejudice and ignorant.

If you had the foresight regarding god that I have, then I wouldn't have to tell you why I believe what I do. Those who do not believe in a God will not accept any scriptural explanations for a specific ones existance, naturally.

I have not made many assumptions in my posts, I base my beliefs on the existance of logic and rationality. If we cannot trust what we see, then what can we trust? I'd go as far to say that I see God, for the definition of God is logic, rationality and truth, as it says on the tin, "Intelligent design". If truth is what we see then God is true, if truth is what we do not see then God is true.
If truth is nothing then nothing is truth, but that would make this a completely different arguement.

----

I wish people treated evolution and the billion year universe like they do God. Here's some big assumptions that would be made with the conclusion of it being a lie:

1. The witnesses who make claims about the effectiveness of anything which supports a billion year universe are simply lying, it's all a conspiracy by the government to deter extremist terrorists from believing in their God.
(Aka, Non-believer: the Bible or any other book is a conspiracy / the people were lied to by the government to keep them under control)

2. Nobody saw the universe billions of years ago to prove the 100% accuracy of any billion-year research made by scientists. For all we know there's one unknown physics effect which could have changed physics over time.
(Aka, Non-believer: there may be an unknown explanation for the laws of physics and life in general that we have not discovered yet / nobody has seen miracles or a physical manifestation of God that impressed them enough)

3. The billion year universe is simply not true, I refuse to believe it regardless of the existance of any evidence. (Aka, Non-believer: God did not create the universe, it just exists, regardless of any evidence of logic.)

Even evidence is circular logic if you make it, for nobody can finish an arguement about something people refuse to believe without bringing one up.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
If you had the foresight regarding god that I have, then I wouldn't have to tell you why I believe what I do. Those who do not believe in a God will not accept any scriptural explanations for a specific ones existance, naturally.

I have not made many assumptions in my posts, I base my beliefs on the existance of logic and rationality. If we cannot trust what we see, then what can we trust? I'd go as far to say that I see God, for the definition of God is logic, rationality and truth, as it says on the tin, "Intelligent design". If truth is what we see then God is true, if truth is what we do not see then God is true.
If truth is nothing then nothing is truth, but that would make this a completely different arguement.

----

I wish people treated evolution and the billion year universe like they do God. Here's some big assumptions that would be made with the conclusion of it being a lie:

1. The witnesses who make claims about the effectiveness of anything which supports a billion year universe are simply lying, it's all a conspiracy by the government to deter extremist terrorists from believing in their God.
(Aka, Non-believer: the Bible or any other book is a conspiracy / the people were lied to by the government to keep them under control)

2. Nobody saw the universe billions of years ago to prove the 100% accuracy of any billion-year research made by scientists. For all we know there's one unknown physics effect which could have changed physics over time.
(Aka, Non-believer: there may be an unknown explanation for the laws of physics and life in general that we have not discovered yet / nobody has seen miracles or a physical manifestation of God that impressed them enough)

3. The billion year universe is simply not true, I refuse to believe it regardless of the existance of any evidence. (Aka, Non-believer: God did not create the universe, it just exists, regardless of any evidence of logic.)

Even evidence is circular logic if you make it, for nobody can finish an arguement about something people refuse to believe without bringing one up.

unfalsifyable superphilosophy/circular reasoning.

prove that god is logic, rationality and truth, these claims are not self evident and need evidence. also your last two statements rely on "ifs" which you have not yet proven to be the case.

1. prove this claim please. people who claim that age of the universe give evidence for it.

2. yet all evidence points towards that age and no evidence points towards a physical anomoly which wud give rise to such a universe in the near part. and it CUD be true, but there is no evidence or reason to beleive so, science is about nigh probability as opposed to certainty.

3. prove it, the scientists have given physical evidence to suggest it. the chain of cause and effect has never been seen to end, giving credulance to the "always existed" argument

scientific evidenc is not circular as it is based in physical observation which is objective.

btw, nice bag of postmodernism u have going here.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
If you had the foresight regarding god that I have, then I wouldn't have to tell you why I believe what I do. Those who do not believe in a God will not accept any scriptural explanations for a specific ones existance, naturally.

If you replace the word “foresight” with the word “belief” in the above statement, then it would make sense. As it is now, it is just a nonsense rant. Therefore, you do not have foresight regarding god; you have belief.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
I have not made many assumptions in my posts, I base my beliefs on the existance of logic and rationality. If we cannot trust what we see, then what can we trust? I'd go as far to say that I see God, for the definition of God is logic, rationality and truth, as it says on the tin, "Intelligent design". If truth is what we see then God is true, if truth is what we do not see then God is true.
If truth is nothing then nothing is truth, but that would make this a completely different arguement.

Circular logic is not logical.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
----

I wish people treated evolution and the billion year universe like they do God. Here's some big assumptions that would be made with the conclusion of it being a lie:

1. The witnesses who make claims about the effectiveness of anything which supports a billion year universe are simply lying, it's all a conspiracy by the government to deter extremist terrorists from believing in their God.
(Aka, Non-believer: the Bible or any other book is a conspiracy / the people were lied to by the government to keep them under control)

2. Nobody saw the universe billions of years ago to prove the 100% accuracy of any billion-year research made by scientists. For all we know there's one unknown physics effect which could have changed physics over time.
(Aka, Non-believer: there may be an unknown explanation for the laws of physics and life in general that we have not discovered yet / nobody has seen miracles or a physical manifestation of God that impressed them enough)

3. The billion year universe is simply not true, I refuse to believe it regardless of the existance of any evidence. (Aka, Non-believer: God did not create the universe, it just exists, regardless of any evidence of logic.)

Even evidence is circular logic if you make it, for nobody can finish an arguement about something people refuse to believe without bringing one up.

I don’t know what you are getting at.

The age of the universe is based upon logic. We know that the universe is expanding because all the galaxies are moving away from us. If you run time backward, then all the galaxies would be moving together. The further into space you look the further back in time you see. We can see 13.5 billion years into the past. If the universe is only 6,000 years old, why would we be able to see 13.5 billion years into the past?

Originally posted by Da Pittman
And where do you get this information? If they can’t control everything they are not a god? Last time I check god also meant a deity that controlled part of the world or universe or a supernatural being. Well the God of the Bible can’t control the Devil so I guess he is not a god either. 😉

So if someone doesn’t believe in your god they can’t understand your god?

1. If they can't control all information, their position as an all powerful God kinda fades away at the face of one which is all powerful.
Sure, you might choose to worship one as a God, but I wouldn't call it wise.

2. Well, we all know that God allows Satan to exist simply for the sake of choice. But not without punishment ofcourse.

3. If someone doesn't believe in God, they cannot believe in my God.

The bible does not say everything about God, it shows everything for those who are beginning in his ways but when you begin to understand it and its context then more truths become clear. Depending on how much you believe in God, and how wise you are.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx

The bible does not say everything about God, it shows everything for those who are beginning in his ways but when you begin to understand it and its context then more truths become clear. Depending on how much you believe in God, and how wise you are.

the bible is a man made b grade work of self contradicting literature. it a beginners guide to delusions and sadomasochism.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If you replace the word “foresight” with the word “belief” in the above statement, then it would make sense. As it is now, it is just a nonsense rant. Therefore, you do not have foresight regarding god; you have belief.

Circular logic is not logical.

I don’t know what you are getting at.

The age of the universe is based upon logic. We know that the universe is expanding because all the galaxies are moving away from us. If you run time backward, then all the galaxies would be moving together. The further into space you look the further back in time you see. We can see 13.5 billion years into the past. If the universe is only 6,000 years old, why would we be able to see 13.5 billion years into the past?

Foresight and belief often blend together.
It isn't often when people honestly believe in the impossible.

Yes, the age of the universe is based upon logic.

But when one makes assumptions such as "It's a conspiracy" without any evidence, or when they use the fact that there's not 100% evidence as an excuse not to believe something, it becomes ridiculous.

And people use the "it's a conspiracy" and "there's not 100% evidence" on God. So you can't really blame creationists for doing the same to evolution. The difference is that if we take away negative assumptions on both sides, the most reliable person is still the creator of the universe in regards to creation.

But if people choose to accept billion years, that's fine, there's alot of evidence for it. But I would sooner trust in God than in human efforts made independantly of God.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
1. If they can't control all information, their position as an all powerful God kinda fades away at the face of one which is all powerful.
Sure, you might choose to worship one as a God, but I wouldn't call it wise.

Worshiping any god would be unwise.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
2. Well, we all know that God allows Satan to exist simply for the sake of choice. But not without punishment ofcourse.

We all do not know that. As a matter of fact, most of the people on the Earth are not Christian.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
3. If someone doesn't believe in God, they cannot believe in my God.

Hindus believe in lots of gods. Your god is no different.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
The bible does not say everything about God, it shows everything for those who are beginning in his ways but when you begin to understand it and its context then more truths become clear. Depending on how much you believe in God, and how wise you are.

There is no hidden truth in the bible. That is simply a product of the human ego. One group of people wants to be better then everyone else, so they make up hidden information or mystic information. That makes them special.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
Foresight and belief often blend together.

In the mind of the delusional.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
It isn't often when people honestly believe in the impossible.

That is not logical.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
Yes, the age of the universe is based upon logic.

For some reason, I don’t think we are talking about the same thing.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
But when one makes assumptions such as "It's a conspiracy" without any evidence, or when they use the fact that there's not 100% evidence as an excuse not to believe something, it becomes ridiculous.

And people use the "it's a conspiracy" and "there's not 100% evidence" on God. So you can't really blame creationists for doing the same to evolution. The difference is that if we take away negative assumptions on both sides, the most reliable person is still the creator of the universe in regards to creation.

I don’t know what conspiracy you are talking about. However, there is a forum for that.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
But if people choose to accept billion years, that's fine, there's alot of evidence for it. But I would sooner trust in God than in evolution.

That is not logical.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Worshiping any god would be unwise.

There is no hidden truth in the bible. That is simply a product of the human ego. One group of people wants to be better then everyone else, so they make up hidden information or mystic information. That makes them special.

I wouldn't say so. Eternity in heaven sounds fun to me. There's no hidden truth in the Bible, half of the truth is hidden in other places.

Maybe you think there's no hidden information because you don't really believe in a God anyway?

Choice exists, so it would be safe to say that it was Gods will for it to be so.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
I wouldn't say so. Eternity in heaven sounds fun to me. There's no hidden truth in the Bible, half of the truth is hidden in other places.

Maybe you think there's no hidden information because you don't really believe in a God anyway?

Choice exists, so it would be safe to say that it was Gods will for it to be so.

Or maybe you believe in hidden information because you believe in magic.

OMFG, are you for real? Even JIA makes better claims then this.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
If you had the foresight regarding god that I have, then I wouldn't have to tell you why I believe what I do. Those who do not believe in a God will not accept any scriptural explanations for a specific ones existance, naturally.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
I wish people treated evolution and the billion year universe like they do God. Here's some big assumptions that would be made with the conclusion of it being a lie:

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
1. The witnesses who make claims about the effectiveness of anything which supports a billion year universe are simply lying, it's all a conspiracy by the government to deter extremist terrorists from believing in their God.
(Aka, Non-believer: the Bible or any other book is a conspiracy / the people were lied to by the government to keep them under control)

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
2. Nobody saw the universe billions of years ago to prove the 100% accuracy of any billion-year research made by scientists. For all we know there's one unknown physics effect which could have changed physics over time.
(Aka, Non-believer: there may be an unknown explanation for the laws of physics and life in general that we have not discovered yet / nobody has seen miracles or a physical manifestation of God that impressed them enough)

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
3. The billion year universe is simply not true, I refuse to believe it regardless of the existance of any evidence. (Aka, Non-believer: God did not create the universe, it just exists, regardless of any evidence of logic.)

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
Even evidence is circular logic if you make it, for nobody can finish an arguement about something people refuse to believe without bringing one up.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
In the mind of the delusional.

That is not logical.

For some reason, I don’t think we are talking about the same thing.

I don’t know what conspiracy you are talking about. However, there is a forum for that.

That is not logical.

1. Prove me wrong.

2. Prove me wrong. lol. Tell me the last time someone randomnly, without explanation decided they could be God.

3. What can I say? Anyone can assume the existance of a conspiracy where there is not one.

4. Ofcourse it's logical, because the creator/sustainer of the world would know things that man does not yet know.

I'm interested in why you think what I believe is not logical.

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
1. Prove me wrong.

2. Prove me wrong. lol. Tell me the last time someone randomnly, without explanation decided they could be God.

3. What can I say? Anyone can assume the existance of a conspiracy where there is not one.

4. Ofcourse it's logical, because the creator/sustainer of the world would know things that man does not yet know.

I'm interested in why you think what I believe is not logical.

1. Why would I want to prove you wrong? I like having you ignorant. 😉

2. Jesus.

3. Would that be a conspiracy of conspiracies? 😂

4. You have not shown that the universe requires a creation.

What you believe is circular logic. Look it up.

1. burden of proof is on u

2. same as above

3. creationism isnt considered to be a conspiracy, its considered to be stupidity

4. it has to be proven first that this creater/sustainer exists

Originally posted by xX-Angel-Xx
1. Prove me wrong.

2. Prove me wrong. lol. Tell me the last time someone randomnly, without explanation decided they could be God.

3. What can I say? Anyone can assume the existance of a conspiracy where there is not one.

4. Ofcourse it's logical, because the creator/sustainer of the world would know things that man does not yet know.

I'm interested in why you think what I believe is not logical.

How can you test that the Earth is 6,000 years old?

How can you test that one day for God is one thousand years?

What evidence do you have that God exists?

If you are not aware scripture does not count as evidence other than that it is evidence of someones writing.

Originally posted by Da Pittman
OMFG, are you for real? Even JIA makes better claims then this.

Now who is being illogical, you will refuse to believe anything that contradicts your belief after you just said you use reason and logic to believe?

Please make this a circular logic 2 + 2 = 4.

Half of those were just examples of how people treat God and not my personal beliefs.

Yes, i would sooner accept the testimony of a prophet than a scientist, only because God would know things that we don't. It's basically an explanation by a greater scientist (without assuming anything is a lie or a conspiracy).

2 + 2 = 4? It could be 22, you could be adding the shapes together instead. Your assumption would be that it's adding the physical numbers together, rather than the shapes 2 and 2.

Physical truths however can only be changed by their creator, just like your meaning of 2 + 2 could be changed by yourself.