Originally posted by lord xyz
I have no idea what you're talking about.
the word "circle" defines what humans call a circle. There is no absolute definition of what a circle is, outside of human perception (something needs man to define it as a "thing"😉
thus, it is possible that our definition of circle is flawed such that there are circular objects which we might call squares.
circles and squares aren't necessarily the best example, but it shows that even though man may say something with certainty, the statement or definition itself has no universal value, simply communicative value between people in order to express what is commonly understood to be a circle.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fact: This universe is not eternal.
This is not provable. You would have to observe the universe coming to an end to prove this. Therefore, it is not a fact.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fact: That means that it began to exist.
Again this is not provable. The universe is expanding, and that means that at some time in the past the universe was very small. However, the big bang theory does not mean the universe had a beginning. That is simply one possibility. The universe may have been very small for an infinite amount of time before the big bang. To say the universe had a beginning is not a fact; only a possibility.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fact: This is in accord with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
Space-time is not bound by the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics only apples to matter.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fact: Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
...and that cause would have to have a cause, and so on to infinity.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
What caused the universe to exist?
If the universe was eternal, then there was never a cause. What if this incarnation of the universe was only one of an infinite number of universes that exist, one after the other, for eternity.
After all, energy cannot be created or destroyed.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Fact: This universe is not eternal.
Fact: That means that it began to exist.
Fact: This is in accord with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
Fact: Everything that begins to exist has a cause.What caused the universe to exist?
Also, who's the one who keeps changing the subject now?
Re: Can you handle the Truth?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?
You know, it's difficult to tell. I'd say that we have to be careful with what we say, however, we also have to make sure that what we're saying is loving...(loving as it is defined in the dictionary). Sometimes love comes in many shapes and forms, but unfortunately, we may be very short sighted in the way we see things depending upon our life's experiences.
My life experience has been that often times people only respond, in the way which they are taught to respond to things..so we have to try to be as graceful as possible(graceful as defined by the dictionary).
Re: Can you handle the Truth?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Why do people get offended when you tell them the truth as it pertains to the Bible?
Frankly? Because when it is told as absolute fact it feels as if we are pushing our religion onto them. A person will be more receptive to someone who isn't trying to shove religion down their throats.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This is not provable. You would have to observe the universe coming to an end to prove this. Therefore, it is not a fact.Again this is not provable. The universe is expanding, and that means that at some time in the past the universe was very small. However, the big bang theory does not mean the universe had a beginning. That is simply one possibility. The universe may have been very small for an infinite amount of time before the big bang. To say the universe had a beginning is not a fact; only a possibility.
Space-time is not bound by the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics only apples to matter.
...and that cause would have to have a cause, and so on to infinity.
If the universe was eternal, then there was never a cause. What if this incarnation of the universe was only one of an infinite number of universes that exist, one after the other, for eternity.
After all, energy cannot be created or destroyed.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
This is not provable. You would have to observe the universe coming to an end to prove this. Therefore, it is not a fact.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is called a law because it is universal and absolute; hence, it is not necessary for me to observe the universe coming to an end to prove that it is not eternal.
Again this is not provable. The universe is expanding, and that means that at some time in the past the universe was very small. However, the big bang theory does not mean the universe had a beginning. That is simply one possibility. The universe may have been very small for an infinite amount of time before the big bang. To say the universe had a beginning is not a fact; only a possibility.
Not true.
It means that at some time in the past the universe had no dimensions, mass, time or space.
In other words, it sprang from nothingness.
Expanding space-time and matter from nothingness (or a singularity) denotes time and time has a beginning.
Space-time is not bound by the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics only apples to matter....and that cause would have to have a cause, and so on to infinity.
Well, I didn’t say space-time I said the universe. The universe functions in accord with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics; hence, it cannot be eternal.
If the universe was eternal, then there was never a cause. What if this incarnation of the universe was only one of an infinite number of universes that exist, one after the other, for eternity.After all, energy cannot be created or destroyed.
But...the universe cannot be eternal as supported by the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.
Now, what caused space-time and matter to come into existence?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is called a law because it is universal and absolute; hence, it is not necessary for me to observe the universe coming to an end to prove that it is not eternal.[/COLOR]
Uniform energy system=/=end of the universe.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Not true.It means that at some time in the past the universe had no dimensions, mass, time or space.
In other words, it sprang from nothingness.
Expanding space-time and matter from nothingness (or a singularity) denotes time and time has a beginning. [/COLOR]
In the cyclic model of the big bang, the big bang springs from a previous universe, ad infinity.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Well, I didn’t say space-time I said the universe. The universe functions in accord with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics; hence, it cannot be eternal.[/COLOR]
The 2nd law of thermodynamics suggests an eternal universe, as there can be no change from a state of inert uniformity, and thus no "end".
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But...the universe cannot be eternal as supported by the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.Now, what caused space-time and matter to come into existence?
According to the 1st law of thermodynamics, it is impossible for matter to have come into existence from nothing. And if you believe the 2nd, you must believe the first as well; the two have proofs that both flow from the same postulate.
Originally posted by King Kandy
The second law of thermodynamics states that a closed system's energy will proceed towards a state of increasing uniformity.Uniform energy system=/=end of the universe.
In no way, shape, or form does the expansion of the universe suggest that the universe "sprang from nothing". It does suggest that it expanded from a singularity, though.
In the cyclic model of the big bang, the big bang springs from a previous universe, ad infinity.
What abortion of logic is this? The 2nd law governs energy flow. The universe is more than just energy.
The 2nd law of thermodynamics suggests an eternal universe, as there can be no change from a state of inert uniformity, and thus no "end".
The 2nd law supports nothing of the sort.
According to the 1st law of thermodynamics, it is impossible for matter to have come into existence from nothing. And if you believe the 2nd, you must believe the first as well; the two have proofs that both flow from the same postulate.
A singularity is for all practical intents and purposes nothingness. It has no energy, dimensions, or matter.
It is impossible for matter/energy to be created or destroyed by natural means. The keyword is natural means because that’s what the 1st Law of Thermodynamics addresses.
Now, what caused the universe to come into existence from nothing?