Originally posted by darkfan76If he doesn’t know the future than he is not all knowing or timeless, if he doesn’t know everything that is, was or will be then he again is not all knowing. If he doesn’t exist in all points in time then he is not timeless.
Clarifying, of course he knows, I said God doesn't "know the future" the way we can understand or imagine it.The problem is that you are thinking of God, and you think of another person, like you and me, and you are trying to understand him. We cannot at least not 100%.
About God's resposability in our good or evil acts: That's the point. He's not. We are. Intervening would be a violation to our free will, and he respect always our free will, even knowing the mistakes and evil we are going to do, because we choose to do it.
That doesn't mean he doesn't intervene from time to time, but leaving the active role to us. He has given us a conscience of good an evil, which many of us decide to ignore. For believers he has reveal himself to mankind through history and has taught us the path we should follow, however many of us decide to not follow that path.
As for his responsibility he still is because if he is all knowing and timeless then he already knows what his creations will do and still created us.
As for his responsibility he still is because if he is all knowing and timeless then he already knows what his creations will do and still created us. [/B]
You see, there is a strong tendency in us in judging because of the evil we see, we are often blinded to see the good, that usually is greater than the evil, and my experience is that there is more "good people" that "evil people", nevertheless the "evil ones" and the "evil acts" are more visible in our eyes.
He even knowing that giving free-will to mankind meant that we would be capable of doing evil, he created us, because free-will would make us capable of doing good and capables of loving.
For programmed robots there is not good or evil, or love or hate, there is not "knowing", there is not decisions to make. Just automatic or mechanical reactions to a predetermined program.
Even in the animal kingdom there is not good an evil. There are not "evil" dogs or tigers, they are just following instincts. M
an is different. Created for love, by love, but not programmed for it. We are capables of "knowing", making decisions, and accept our responsabilities for it.
The answer for the question Why did God created us, is simply: Love, you can decide to love him and mankind or not.
Originally posted by darkfan76Well maybe but that doesn’t mean that I am. I know there is good in the world and more than evil but the problem is that creating something that you know will have great evil and some of the most heinous crimes against humanity, pain and suffering and still create it which does make him responsible. It is not like a parent having a child knowing that they could grow up to be the next Hitler because they hope that they will not and try and teach them good and to be caring. I know that know you will say that is what God is trying to teach us with his “words” but the difference is that he already knows if it will work or not where as the parents do not have that knowledge.
You see, there is a strong tendency in us in judging because of the evil we see, we are often blinded to see the good, that usually is greater than the evil, and my experience is that there is more "good people" that "evil people", nevertheless the "evil ones" and the "evil acts" are more visible in our eyes.He even knowing that giving free-will to mankind meant that we would be capable of doing evil, he created us, because free-will would make us capable of doing good and capables of loving.
For programmed robots there is not good or evil, or love or hate, there is not "knowing", there is not decisions to make. Just automatic or mechanical reactions to a predetermined program.
Even in the animal kingdom there is not good an evil. There are not "evil" dogs or tigers, they are just following instincts. M
an is different. Created for love, by love, but not programmed for it. We are capables of "knowing", making decisions, and accept our responsabilities for it.
The answer for the question Why did God created us, is simply: Love, you can decide to love him and mankind or not.
Originally posted by darkfan76
Even in the animal kingdom there is not good an evil. There are not "evil" dogs or tigers, they are just following instincts. Man is different. Created for love, by love, but not programmed for it. We are capables of "knowing", making decisions, and accept our responsabilities for it.
Is it just "instict" for leopards to kill animals for fun, which they have been known to do?
Originally posted by darkfan76
You see, there is a strong tendency in us in judging because of the evil we see, we are often blinded to see the good, that usually is greater than the evil, and my experience is that there is more "good people" that "evil people", nevertheless the "evil ones" and the "evil acts" are more visible in our eyes.
I do agree that we tend to recognize the negatives of life and of a person, more so than the positives 👆
A person can do many wondrous works, but when they make a mistake, that is when the attention comes.
You can attend work on time for 5 years straight, but be late once, and you're in deep sh*t.
So, even though I usually disagree with you, on this point I entirely agree 👆
Originally posted by darkfan76
He even knowing that giving free-will to mankind meant that we would be capable of doing evil, he created us, because free-will would make us capable of doing good and capables of loving.
Love, in my opinion, is not a choice. You either love someone, or you don't, you cannot make yourself fall in love with someone. However, compassion is a choice, and you can certainly choose to enact compassion on even the most hated of people. If you mean compassion, then I agree.
Free Will, in my opinion, is not entirely free. There are conditions, needs, desires, and influence that affect our choices every day. And there are consequences for every choice we make, good or bad. We have to pay a price for all of our decisions, whether it be time, energy, money, or whatnot.
If Will and Choice were truly free, then we'd have to pay nothing in consequence for it, and that my dear, is not the case.
Originally posted by darkfan76
For programmed robots there is not good or evil, or love or hate, there is not "knowing", there is not decisions to make. Just automatic or mechanical reactions to a predetermined program.
True, but animals are not robots, as you seem to imply in your next statements.
Originally posted by darkfan76
Even in the animal kingdom there is not good an evil. There are not "evil" dogs or tigers, they are just following instincts.
-there are animals, even carnivores, that adopt other animals, eventhose of another species
-house cats are sadistic by nature, they "kill for fun".
-animals of different species have befreinded each other, even when there was no obvious need to
-there are some lionesses who defend thier children to the deaths-even against new male lions, and other lionesses who submit to a new male killing thier children- is that not choice?
If you actually study animal behavior, you will realize that animals exhibit emotion, stress, desire, and choice.
Also, it is scientific fact that human beings are animals. Long ago there were other species of human being (homo erectus for example), only homo sapien, being the smartest, survived, however.
Originally posted by darkfan76
Man is different. Created for love, by love, but not programmed for it. We are capables of "knowing", making decisions, and accept our responsabilities for it.
Please read the above, your claim that animals cannot love, but humans can, is pure myth based on your religion.
And even if you do not want to take scientific observation into consideration, have you ever owned a dog ? A labridor ?
If you own a smart dog, and are still convinced that only humans are capable of love, understanding, and choice, then you are clearly blind. No offense, but I can put it no other way.
Originally posted by darkfan76
The answer for the question Why did God created us, is simply: Love, you can decide to love him and mankind or not.
God also created Hell according to the Bible as punishment for disbeleif and disobedience. That is not Love, and it negates the value of creation in the first place.
Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I do agree that we tend to recognize the negatives of life and of a person, more so than the positives 👆A person can do many wondrous works, but when they make a mistake, that is when the attention comes.
You can attend work on time for 5 years straight, but be late once, and you're in deep sh*t.
So, even though I usually disagree with you, on this point [b]I entirely agree
👆Love, in my opinion, is not a choice. You either love someone, or you don't, you cannot make yourself fall in love with someone. However, compassion is a choice, and you can certainly choose to enact compassion on even the most hated of people. If you mean compassion, then I agree.
Free Will, in my opinion, is not entirely free. There are conditions, needs, desires, and influence that affect our choices every day. And there are consequences for every choice we make, good or bad. We have to pay a price for all of our decisions, whether it be time, energy, money, or whatnot.
If Will and Choice were truly free, then we'd have to pay nothing in consequence for it, and that my dear, is not the case.
True, but animals are not robots, as you seem to imply in your next statements.
-there are animals, even carnivores, that adopt other animals, eventhose of another species
-house cats are sadistic by nature, they "kill for fun".
-animals of different species have befreinded each other, even when there was no obvious need to
-there are some lionesses who defend thier children to the deaths-even against new male lions, and other lionesses who submit to a new male killing thier children- is that not choice?
If you actually study animal behavior, you will realize that animals exhibit emotion, stress, desire, and choice.
Also, it is scientific fact that human beings are animals. Long ago there were other species of human being (homo erectus for example), only homo sapien, being the smartest, survived, however.
Please read the above, your claim that animals cannot love, but humans can, is pure myth based on your religion.
And even if you do not want to take scientific observation into consideration, have you ever owned a dog ? A labridor ?
If you own a smart dog, and are still convinced that only humans are capable of love, understanding, and choice, then you are clearly blind. No offense, but I can put it no other way.
God also created Hell according to the Bible as punishment for disbeleif and disobedience. That is not Love, and it negates the value of creation in the first place. [/B]
No, the everlasting fire was prepared for the devil and his angels. Read Matthew 25:41.
I don't think that anything anyone could ever do would make them deserve an eternity of torture, except for like, Hitler.
So ya, I don't understand why chrisitans widely accept that a loving god would do this to anybody for not believing in him. I (a very loving person) wouldn't be able to subject someone to torture, but I am supposed to believe that a much wiser being could do this for such a petty reason?
Sry, doesn't pertain to whatever we were just talking about, but I've been skipping around and reading.
Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
I don't think that anything anyone could ever do would make them deserve an eternity of torture, except for like, Hitler.So ya, I don't understand why chrisitans widely accept that a loving god would do this to anybody for not believing in him. I (a very loving person) wouldn't be able to subject someone to torture, but I am supposed to believe that a much wiser being could do this for such a petty reason?
Sry, doesn't pertain to whatever we were just talking about, but I've been skipping around and reading.
Exactly the logical problem Christianity poses 👆
Originally posted by allofyousuckkk
I don't think that anything anyone could ever do would make them deserve an eternity of torture, except for like, Hitler.So ya, I don't understand why chrisitans widely accept that a loving god would do this to anybody for not believing in him. I (a very loving person) wouldn't be able to subject someone to torture, but I am supposed to believe that a much wiser being could do this for such a petty reason?
Sry, doesn't pertain to whatever we were just talking about, but I've been skipping around and reading.
I don't believe that anyone could ever do anything to merit eternal life in God's presence. But since eternal life is free for all who want it and ask for it in Jesus Name by faith, there must of necessity be an antithesis (i.e. eternal death and condemnation in Hell).
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't believe that anyone could ever do anything to merit eternal life in God's presence. But since eternal life is free for all who want it and ask for it in Jesus Name by faith, there must of necessity be an antithesis (i.e. eternal death and condemnation in Hell).
Your logic is poor: because a myth is real to you, the opposite must be true for the rest of us.
Originally posted by JesusIsAliveSo you believe that no one could merit eternal peace and happiness but they can merit eternal pain and suffering? 😕
I don't believe that anyone could ever do anything to merit eternal life in God's presence. But since eternal life is free for all who want it and ask for it in Jesus Name by faith, there must of necessity be an antithesis (i.e. eternal death and condemnation in Hell).
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I don't believe that anyone could ever do anything to merit eternal life in God's presence. But since eternal life is free for all who want it and ask for it in Jesus Name by faith, there must of necessity be an antithesis (i.e. eternal death and condemnation in Hell).
that point of view is flawed in its basis. accordig to the myth. god made us. and we had no WILL to resist the sin committed by adam and eve. hence we were emty templates until our birth. and hence can not INHERIT adam's sin. it is what we do in our life that matters. but since we are EMPTY TEMPLATES when we come to this world.
i see ABSOLUTELY no reason why we wouldnt merit eternal life with god by DEFAULT.
your problem is that you seem to think of humans as lowly beings who by NATURE are born in sin and evil. and the oh so great creator due to his infinite COMPASSION gives the MOST EVILE and hideous of beings a way{that by your own words, they do not DESERVE} to atone for their sins which are endless. and could never be atoned for by trying to PHYSICALLY make up for them
therefore god has given an UNFAIR shortcut to beings who have done nuthing to deserve it, but because god is SOOOOO compassionate. therefore to you, he is worthy of eternal gratitude from you own pathetic self{in nature i mean} as he did sumthing for yu that was impossible and sumthing you had done nuthing to deserve.
im sorry but that is a very SICK mindset to have, and im certainly sure, from all your posts that you have it or sumthing very similar.
Originally posted by leonheartmm
that point of view is flawed in its basis. accordig to the myth. god made us. and we had no WILL to resist the sin committed by adam and eve. hence we were emty templates until our birth. and hence can not INHERIT adam's sin. it is what we do in our life that matters. but since we are EMPTY TEMPLATES when we come to this world.i see ABSOLUTELY no reason why we wouldnt merit eternal life with god by DEFAULT.
your problem is that you seem to think of humans as lowly beings who by NATURE are born in sin and evil. and the oh so great creator due to his infinite COMPASSION gives the MOST EVILE and hideous of beings a way{that by your own words, they do not DESERVE} to atone for their sins which are endless. and could never be atoned for by trying to PHYSICALLY make up for them
therefore god has given an UNFAIR shortcut to beings who have done nuthing to deserve it, but because god is SOOOOO compassionate. therefore to you, he is worthy of eternal gratitude from you own pathetic self{in nature i mean} as he did sumthing for yu that was impossible and sumthing you had done nuthing to deserve.
im sorry but that is a very SICK mindset to have, and im certainly sure, from all your posts that you have it or sumthing very similar.
I think you got it. 😉 Sad isn't it?
Originally posted by leonheartmm
that point of view is flawed in its basis. accordig to the myth. god made us. and we had no WILL to resist the sin committed by adam and eve. hence we were emty templates until our birth. and hence can not INHERIT adam's sin. it is what we do in our life that matters. but since we are EMPTY TEMPLATES when we come to this world.i see ABSOLUTELY no reason why we wouldnt merit eternal life with god by DEFAULT.
your problem is that you seem to think of humans as lowly beings who by NATURE are born in sin and evil. and the oh so great creator due to his infinite COMPASSION gives the MOST EVILE and hideous of beings a way{that by your own words, they do not DESERVE} to atone for their sins which are endless. and could never be atoned for by trying to PHYSICALLY make up for them
therefore god has given an UNFAIR shortcut to beings who have done nuthing to deserve it, but because god is SOOOOO compassionate. therefore to you, he is worthy of eternal gratitude from you own pathetic self{in nature i mean} as he did sumthing for yu that was impossible and sumthing you had done nuthing to deserve.
im sorry but that is a very SICK mindset to have, and im certainly sure, from all your posts that you have it or sumthing very similar.
That is pretty well said.