God and Evil

I took a contemporary theory course last summer with a Prof who was both a member of the board for the Unitarian Church and a Nihilist.

Seeing as this is a strange combination, I took every chance I could to hear his discertation on God. He even gave me a couple of articles he had written, and as an athiest myself (I even hate having to use that word to describe my disbelief in nonsense) I was very surprised to find myself nodding along to the majority of what he had written.

So, lets make some assumptions that are needed for this to even work:

1) God exists in the classic Christian interpretation
2) The bible is fact
3) There is no reason to question these facts

Moving from there, we see that in 2000+ years of moral philosophy, man has come to realize certain truths that seem to be at odds with the origional philosophy given to us by this God.

Slavery, Abortion, Racism, Science, Homosexuality, freedom from violence, of speech and pretty much every one of our human rights fly in the face of what it appears that God truly wants from us.

Why is it then, that a doctrine of suffering is considered more moral than a doctrine that promotes peace and tolorance. For instance, if God really wants people to keep slaves, maybe we, as a people who have decided unamimously that slavery is wrong, need to say God is the one who is wrong.

My point is this: If God exists, and what he wants us to do is considered evil by any moral interpretation we can imagine, would that not make God an evil spirit?

If God is trying to enforce slavery, wouldn't it be more appropriate for us as a people to oppose him?

(please note: You can replace slavery with homosexual discrimination or any other weird moral issue religions seem to attach themselves to)

Making those three assumptions leads you to come to this impasse: How could you oppose God, and how could God be wrong?

The problem is with the three assumptions.

That is true.

The whole question is a paradox in general, but one that I think should open up some discussion. Clearly if God is all knowing it is a justification for the hatred proposed in the bible. And if god is all powerful then we can't stop him from making us hate.

The question is more about why we would be willing to do evil just because an authority directs it and whether intentional harm and discrimination can be justified through an appeal to said authority, simply because it says it is all knowing.

Maybe the assumptions should clarify that the bible is the WORD of god, and we have no reason to assume that God isn't lying to us.

There is always the escape clause: god works in mysterious ways.

lol

ok fine, nobody is forcing you to participate 😛

Originally posted by inimalist
lol

ok fine, nobody is forcing you to participate 😛

I am participating. 😕

God Works in Mysterious Ways...so do psychopaths

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
God Works in Mysterious Ways...so do psychopaths

Christianity has been snaking around these argument for centuries, they have every door guarded.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I am participating. 😕

I know

I'm just bitter that you pointed out my flaws so quickly

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Christianity has been snaking around these argument for centuries, they have every door guarded.

agreed, they do have a way out of any paradox it seems.

I see nothing "mysterious" about the sun circling the Earth, but maybe that's just me.

That "God works in mysterious ways" is in response to religious document being scientifically and undeniably wrong. So what do people do? They put their own spin on it, such as saying that God's ways are a mystery, and you shouldn't try to comprehend them. People made that up, and it says it nowhere in holy text, as far as I know. You can't believe in half a book when it is obviously filled with human errors.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Christianity has been snaking around these argument for centuries, they have every door guarded.

Too true.Theirs a great book by Jeffrey Burton Russell called the devil,Perceptions of Evil from Antiquity to Primitive Christianity.It shows how Christianity tried to stay a monistic religon,yet also shows the influence of the dualism of Zoroastrianism and how it put Christianity into a funny little problem.While it claims to be a religon based in monism,it also tries to say it's a dualist system.Christianity wanted an all powerful God yet they had to explain evil.So while god was in charge of everything they put the devil on the evil side of things.theirs a few points I would like to bring up.

1.God is either all powerful and allows evil to happen,or he is of limited power and can do nothing about it.Some Christians even,Unknowingly,put god as a being of limited power.Inticing us to belive we are involved in a war against evil.God needs our help yet he is the all-mighty,creator.

2.Evil is nessecary.Without evil with what would we measure good?How could we know something was good without knowing of,or what bad was.

3.God is a pantheistic deity who IS existance and is identical to the universe.O

You could also take the view that all evil eventualy works in the favor of good.But then all this realy means is that the word evil does not mean evil and that it represents something else.Maybe tough love?

The nature of a supposed God is a tough subject.Especialy when the god we are speaking of is all loving and all mighty yet tolerates a world of evil

Damn i missed this former.I'm so happy to be posting again!

Originally posted by inimalist
lets make some assumptions that are needed for this to even work

I think you already solved the problem when you said that.

For that to work you needed to make the assumptions. The paradox just exists because of the assumptions. Analyzing this logically the assumptions are wrong, or there is a wrong inference.

This subject is well know and many people arrived at the same paradox, so I think there is a problem with the assumptions.

There are some simple philosophies who can solve this problem of evil easily, like karma or the yin yang thing. So its not difficult to solve this paradox, but you have to change the assumptions and some don´t want to do that.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Christianity has been snaking around these argument for centuries, they have every door guarded.

Originally posted by lord xyz
And yet, they're still at the very bottom.

Some of your posts are very mature and well thought out, and then there is this one. 😆

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
There is always the escape clause: god works in mysterious ways.

I believe it was you who once said man was incapable of fully understanding God. Therefore his actions may sometimes seem very odd to us.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Some of your posts are very mature and well thought out, and then there is this one. 😆

Originally posted by lord xyz
Being a teenager is a very stressful time and can cause mood-swings. Or in this case, intelect-swings.

😆 Trust me, it only gets worse. 😉

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
😆 Trust me, it only gets worse. 😉

amen

IT's gotten better for me...I am much happier now than I was as a teenager, beleive it or not...

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
IT's gotten better for me...I am much happier now than I was as a teenager, beleive it or not...

Ya, but you are not supposed to tell him that. 😠 😆