Eternity vs white phoenix

Originally posted by Mr Master
Only she can't hold a Universe in her hands.

When Phoenix supposedly held Reality 15104 in her hands,

[B]she needed to be IN the White Hot Room to do it.

[/B]

Not true at all. 😄

She telekinetically amputated the future HCT reality, held it in her hand and carried it away beyond space and time where it was then taken away from her by a clawed hand OUTSIDE the M'kraan crystal:

Within the M'kraan crystal she TELEKINETICALLY materialised the wounded 616 reality where she would later gaze into it and grow it a new future to replace the one she had just cut away by altering the event which lead to the apocalyptic HCT future...Cyclops' reaction to Emma.

Given that OUTSIDE of the crystal THE WCP has shown the ability to telekinetically amputate the future of a universe and then carry away that future reality in her hands

Given that Jeans materialising the wounded universe and holding it in her hands within the crystal was said to be achieved through TELEKINESIS ("The telekinetic control of all those atoms"😉

You CANNOT say that Jean could only hold a reality in her hands because she was within the crystal when she did it OUTSIDE the crystal and when within the crystal its stated to have been achieved through her telekinesis and nothing else.

White Crown Phoenix for the win. She could just amputate Eternitys timeline like she did here but unlike she did here she could then just leave him to die instead of saving his life by altering the past to grow a future to replace the one she had amputated from Eternity.

Originally posted by Supreme being
And i have stated as well as many other posters WCP held eternity in her hands

White Phoenix of the Crown, Never held 616 Eternity in her hands.

WPOTC held a baby Universe (Reality 15104) that had just diverged,

and WPOTC needed to be IN the WHR to do it.

Reality 15104 in an ENCLOSED realm, where ONLY X-Men exist. 😂

Originally posted by Supreme being
and as i have also stated she might be able to crush it she might not be able to.

Perhaps she can crush this Diverged Reality where only X-Men

and a few X-Men enemies exist,

but can she do that to Eternity? Heck no2

Originally posted by Supreme being
The fact remains that she held it within her hands and that leaves me with a conclusion that she is far greater than it speculation on my part yes based on an actual feat by WCP.

But it is speculation cause Phoenix Never held 616 Eternity in her hands.

Here's Kubik Warping an entire Universe into a Sphere the size of his hand:

"Good lord he's the sun"

"NOT JUST the sun, johnny. Beyonder is EVERYTHING in this UNIVERSE"

(Post-retcon Beyonder's Universe)

Just like Reality 15104 this Universe is NOT as Powerful as 616 Eternity.

Originally posted by Kadesh
restoring the past with time manipulation doesnt mean you can crush a universe is in your palm, Clestials, franklin can manipulate reality, that mean they can destroy the whole universe?

The past alteration isnt what you should be paying attention to in that scene from Here Comes Tomorrow. Instead focus your attention on the fact that she telekinetically amputated a realitys future and carried that timeline away in her hand outside of time/space where it was disposed of by a mysterious clawed hand.

Jean once again demonstrated her telekinetic mastery by telekinetically materializing a reality into the palm of her hand once she'd reached the M'kraan crystal. Its that telekinetic control of all the atoms of that reality that is the clincher.

If she can control all the matter that makes up a reality telekinetically and hold it in the palm of her hand, then she is obviously greater than that reality or anything that derives power from that reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master
White Phoenix of the Crown, Never held 616 Eternity in her hands.

WPOTC held a baby Universe (Reality 15104) that had just diverged,

and WPOTC needed to be IN the WHR to do it.

Reality 15104 in an ENCLOSED realm, where ONLY X-Men exist. 😂

Perhaps she can crush this Diverged Reality where only X-Men

and a few X-Men enemies exist,

but can she do that to Eternity? Heck no2

But it is speculation cause Phoenix Never held 616 Eternity in her hands.

Here's Kubik Warping an entire Universe into a Sphere the size of his hand:

"Good lord he's the sun"

"NOT JUST the sun, johnny. Beyonder is EVERYTHING in this UNIVERSE"

(Post-retcon Beyonder's Universe)

Just like Reality 15104 this Universe is NOT as Powerful as 616 Eternity.

Reality 15104 is the Here Comes Tomorrow reality and it was the future state of 616 which got amputated. So your argument falls flat.

Jean amputated reality 15104 from 616 and carried this future timeline away in her hand to be disposed of. So Jean manipulated telekinetically and held in her hand the matter of an entire universe on more than one occassion. First when she cut away 15104 from 616 and secondly when she materialized the universe within the M'kraan crystal for healing.

Holding the divergent future state of 616 in her hands (as she did immediately after the telekinetic amputation) is still her telekinetically controlling all the matter of a universe in her hand, it is just the universe further down the timeline, a future state of the universe. Its no different to her holding the universe in the present, or in the past. Its still the universe, just a divergent state of it at a different point in time so it makes the feat no less impressive.

What looks good for the White Crown Phoenix is that she did it TWICE. First directly after she amputated the future state of reality(HCT) from the rest of reality and secondly when she again used her telekinesis to materialise the rest of reality in her hands within the crystal so that she could heal it.

The fact that she did it first outside the crsytal via her telekinesis and then did it within the crystal as stated via her telekinesis scraps the argument that Jean could only perform such a feat within the M'kraan crystal.

To top it off Jean was talking about manipulating matter on such a scale way before this incident in New X-men 148:

And once again via her telekinesis not by some imaginary powerup she gains from being within the M'kraan crystal. 😬

White Crown Phoenix stomps Eternity as she has shown herself capable of feats which make that notion easily feasible.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
She telekinetically amputated the future HCT reality, held it in her hand and carried it away beyond space and time where it was then taken away from her by a clawed hand OUTSIDE the M'kraan crystal:

That Alternate Future is NOT the Reality itself:

"In One Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future OF Reality - 15104"

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)

"In ONE Future"

(there are many Possible Futures)

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Within the M'kraan crystal she TELEKINETICALLY materialised the wounded 616 reality

Hmm...

You say "She TELEKINETICALLY materialized the wounded reality"

Interesting, On Panel ... Jean doesn't even know what the hell it is,

but you say SHE materialized it:

Jean had NO idea how that "Orphan universe" appeared in her hands,

much less what to do with it:

Phoenix is CLUELESS as to WHAT this is, or WHAT to do with it.

First question:

Jean says, "Did I have to FIX something that was dying?

Jean gets NO ANSWER!

Second Question:

What is it?"

Jean gets ANSWERED!

It tells her, "A badly wounded Orphan Universe ... Phoenix work"

Fine ..... Now WHAT does that mean?....

Jean Grey doesn't know either.

"But ... but WHAT's that supposed to mean?"

meh, maybe you're right and the book is wrong.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
616 reality where she would later gaze into it and grow it a new future to replace the one she had just cut away by altering the event which lead to the apocalyptic HCT future...Cyclops' reaction to Emma.

NOT True at all.

The Future of 616,

where only the X-Men exist.

If it was 616 until it was disconnected, and then it became 15104,

what happened to the original 616?

It was magically Re-Created?

Jean Amputated the Future in issue #154.

Here Comes Tomorrow began in issue #150.

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Here Comes Tomorrow bio)

Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104 and began in issue #150

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)

It clearly says "Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104" ...

NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Given that OUTSIDE of the crystal THE WCP has shown the ability to telekinetically amputate the future of a universe and then carry away that future reality in her hands

It took her 7 Pages to "Amputate" the Future.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Given that Jeans materialising the wounded universe and holding it in her hands within the crystal was said to be achieved through TELEKINESIS ("The telekinetic control of all those atoms"😉

Not true,

the Force was talking about the Alternate Future that was Repaired.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
You CANNOT say that Jean could only hold a reality in her hands because she was within the crystal when she did it OUTSIDE the crystal

Not true at all.

Jean Never held any kind of Reality Outside the Crystal.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
and when within the crystal its stated to have been achieved through her telekinesis and nothing else.

"In One Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104"

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)

"In ONE Future" (there are many Possible Futures)

On Panel verification:

"Some KIND of Bacteria Colony gone rogue ... I had to Amputate the whole Future"

Jean is told, "Phoenix DISINFECTION Successful"

Phoenix asks, "Is this the Future?"

It tells her, "You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it" --- (the FUTURE)

Did she not just ask, "is this the Future?"

And was she not just responded to with,

"You lost concentration, Shock almost killed it?"

This is actually the process taking place of a FUTURE Timeline being Repaired,

IN the White Hot Room/ Mkraan Crystal.

The "the Claw" takes the Future into the "HOSPITAL, White Hot Room"

As You Can SEE, around the Pink Crystal Power is Flowing,

that's Phoenix REPAIRING the FUTURE!

"Now heal wound MAKE Better FUTURE QUICKLY"

Next Panel:

We see Jean walking towards the Phoenix Corps, AFTER Repairing the Future,

Atom by Atom

"Telekinetic control of all those Atoms at once isn't as easy as it sounds in training,

NOT even for a White Phoenix of the Crown..."

whistling

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
White Crown Phoenix for the win. She could just amputate Eternitys timeline like she did here but unlike she did here she could then just leave him to die instead of saving his life by altering the past to grow a future to replace the one she had amputated from Eternity.

It took Phoenix a lot of TIME to amputate that Timeline, enough TIME that her friends were dying all around her, including Wolverine at the hands of Sublime while she was working on the "amputation"

But don't take my word for it,

here is Jean in her own words:

"What's happening here is a Coordinated Disinfection,

my Friends were only KEEPING YOU BUSY" (more like DYING)

Finally, SEVEN PAGES later Phoenix amputates that Timeline.

I suppose,

Eternity would just sit back and allow Phoenix,

to take ALL the Time it would for her to "Amputate" his Timeline.

The Reality in her hands was already Reality 15104,
it became that Reality the moment Scott set in motion the chain of events that led to Here Comes Tomorrow.

Jean dies on page 30 of New-Xmen #150

Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - and 150 YEARS have passed.

Page 01 in New X-Men #151 - starts at 150 Years in the Future (NOW it's Alternate Reality 15104)

This is what lead 616 to Diverge into this Alternate Reality 15104

Page 19 in New X-Men #151 ... 150 Years Earlier on Earth 616

Scott decides to quit.

Phoenix intervenes by reaching into this moment 150 Years ago on 616 and changes Scott's mind.

"Live Scott"

In order to ensure that 616 would not Diverge into the Here Comes Tomorrow Future of Reality 15104

Here Comes Tomorrow is a Divergent Timeline, that's it.

A possible Future for the 616 Reality, but it was Never a Certain Future.

That Universe took form because of Scotts decision 150 Years Ago, Grant Morrison's way of getting away with the story.

No wonder there wasn't a single extra cameo from a character Other than X-Men related, It's a Global epidemic and NO ONE else KNOWS about it?

hum

This story (Here Comes Tomorrow) was enclosed in this Alternate Reality 15104 the second this story began 150 Years in the Future.

New X-Men #151 - starts at 150 Years in the Future

(NOW it's Alternate Reality 15104)

way before Jean Amputated anything in #154

(I mean What? ... Only the X-Men exist in the Future of 616?) 😂

See, that's silly.

So, by the time Jean Amputates the Future Deep in the Arc in issue #154,

the Story has been taking place in Reality 15104 since issue #150.

the Future of,

Earth-15104

"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104

(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)

"In ONE Future" (there are many Possible Futures)

Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104 ... NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.

The reality of 15104 was a divergent future of 616. It was a future state of the universe. Jean telekinetically amputated that future state and held it in her hands and carried it away. This occurred OUTSIDE the crystal.

Once inside the crystal Jean telekinetically materialized the rest of reality that she had wounded by cutting away 15104 (Here Comes Tomorrow) from it and once again demonstrate the scal of her telekinesis and the fact that a single reality is nothing to her if she can manipulate an entire universes matter and hold it in her hand like it is nothing. Something she did twice.

😉

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The reality of 15104 was a divergent future of 616. It was a future state of the universe. Jean telekinetically amputated that future state and held it in her hands and carried it away. This occurred OUTSIDE the crystal.

Once inside the crystal Jean telekinetically materialized the rest of reality that she had wounded by cutting away 15104 (Here Comes Tomorrow) from it and once again demonstrate the scal of her telekinesis and the fact that a single reality is nothing to her if she can manipulate an entire universes matter and hold it in her hand like it is nothing. Something she did twice.

Whatever you say,

I made my point you made yours,

let's let the onlookers decide. 🙂

Welcome back btw.

All the ins and outs of that HCT scene are discussed here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/437478_6-respect-the-phoenix-shifty

No need to go through it again. 🙂

What remains unchanged is the fact that Jean has telekinetically manipulated the matter of a universe and held it in her hand twice.

First time round it was a divergent future reality which she telekinetically amputated. Thats just the universe at a point further down the timeline. Still a universe with all its matter and in all its glory, just in a future state.

Second time it was the rest of reality she had amputated that future from previously hence it being referred to as "badly wounded". She materialized this reality through telekinetic control of its atoms as stated into the palm of her hand.

Cool feats. 😉

Originally posted by Mr Master
Whatever you say,

I made my point you made yours,

let's let the onlookers decide. 🙂

Welcome back btw.

Thank you.

Work takes priority but i'll always pop in now and again to say hi. 🙂

sorry about that mr master!
my post was directed at the thredd starter thats why i quoted him and not you.

i should have warned you not to waste your time rebutting my points.
as it will be glossed over by me and basicly ignored.
ive lerned to not pay much attention to your posts. if i do end up reading a post by you its taken with a grain of salt .
i cant keep reading the same argument over and over it gets realy boring.
again sorry for making you waste your time.

Originally posted by xjustice69x
sorry about that mr master!
my post was directed at the thredd starter thats why i quoted him and not you.

That's cool,

gives me a chance to properly inform the onlookers.

Originally posted by xjustice69x
i should have warned you not to waste your time rebutting my points.
as it will be glossed over by me and basicly ignored.

So you ignore evidence that proves you wrong?

That's not exactly decorous,

but to each his own. 🙂

Originally posted by xjustice69x
ive lerned to not pay much attention to your posts.

if i do end up reading a post by you its taken with a grain of salt.

That's cool,

you can be assured though that I WILL pay attention to Your posts,

and when I see misleading information being posted,

I'll be there to clean up the mess. (with Proof as always)

Originally posted by xjustice69x
i cant keep reading the same argument over and over it gets realy boring.

The same argument is given concerning the same debate.

How many different ways can you explain that grass is green?

[QUOTE=8788999]Originally posted by xjustice69x
[B] again sorry for making you waste your time.

No need,

it's not a waste of time if I prevent ignorance to overflow the forum,

you may "ignore" my posts but that's meaningless to me.

My concern is that other less intransigent individuals will actually pay attention to some of the fantastical hype that's posted in threads.

If I know the facts and I have the valid proof to back it up,

I will let it be known.

Now we see that the Phoenix of the white crown wins
Galactic Storm was just the icing on the cake, Always impressive i must say G.S
And even if there are people who disagree,which is your right,we can be civil to each other

Mr Master Owned by xjusticex
We now have another polite smart intelligent debater who knows what you are
Don't think for a second we Don't know your just feeding your ego
So stop with the condescending talk,you know its a shame you chose to take the arrogant, insulting, lying route for so long,maybe your reputation would have been saved

Originally posted by starlock
Mr Master Owned by xjusticex

We now have another polite smart intelligent debater who knows what you are

Don't think for a second we Don't know your just feeding your ego

So stop with the condescending talk,

you know its a shame you chose to take the arrogant,

insulting,

lying route for so long,

maybe your reputation would have been saved

blahblah

Same ol same ol.

Still waiting for you to post even one phrase that's significant.

I guess now your fame to claim is bashing me. 😆

meh, what are you gonna do when you have nothing of consequence to say?

What ever makes you bust biatch. 🙄