Who is the most powerful Sith

lol since when? Aside from Revan and Kun who could be as strong as the ancients, we don't see anyone that's uber elite. In fact, all of them learned ancient sith techniques, yet Revan is the only one with vast ancient sith knowledge. I fail to see how any one of them can challenge the most powerful DLOTS of the ancient sith who ruled over a century during the pinnacle of dark side power. I don't see any other sith other than Sidious achieving close to that.

Well..ya know, Nihilus is just way stronger than Revan, right?

Or do you somehow think Revan, who doesn't have any quotes or feats to quantify his power is even close to Nihilus', is anything special when compared to a guy who kills planets?

And yes, they can. Ragnos required a scepter to do something Nihilus could do on his own and in greater effect. So much for the most powerful DLOTS who is kinda pathetic compared to all the Sith who came after him. Particularly Sidious and Nihilus. Confirmed fleet-destroyers and planet-killers while Ragnos' people threw bricks.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well..ya know, Nihilus is just way stronger than Revan, right?

Or do you somehow think Revan, who doesn't have any quotes or feats to quantify his power is even close to Nihilus', is anything special when compared to a guy who kills planets?

Kriea herself made it very clear that how powerful Revan was. She has trained both Revan and Nihilus and she knew the truth.

And Revan has performed many impressive feats during his time.

My actual point is that KOTOR Sith (including Kun, Revan and Nihilus) are stronger then the Ancients.

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well..ya know, Nihilus is just way stronger than Revan, right?

Or do you somehow think Revan, who doesn't have any quotes or feats to quantify his power is even close to Nihilus', is anything special when compared to a guy who kills planets?

And yes, they can. Ragnos required a scepter to do something Nihilus could do on his own and in greater effect. So much for the most powerful DLOTS who is kinda pathetic compared to all the Sith who came after him. Particularly Sidious and Nihilus. Confirmed fleet-destroyers and planet-killers while Ragnos' people threw bricks.

Eh, I personally view Nihilus as being more powerful than Revan, but I don't think you're giving the guy enough credit. Now let's look at his defeat of Malak at the Star Forge: he was essentially facing a guy being powered up by an entire race of force sensitives (likely millions of beings given the fact that the Rakatans were the most prosperous civilisation at the time of creating the Star Forge, and as Advent pointed out, far less prosperous races still numbered in the hundreds of thousands. So you can relate: someone similar, UnuThul, was even able to give post NJO Luke a hard time in combat, so surely you can see how great an opponent Malak would have been) and he was able to beat him at least twice in a row (implying a huge superiority in power), after battling his way through an entire fortress of darksiders, advanced battled droids, and elite sith troopers (implying some level of fatigue).

While we can't really gauge too many specifics on Revan's power, based on that feat alone, it's pretty obvious that it was phenomenal.

Now that's just KotOR Revan, Post KotOR Revan would be even more impressive, given that he was stated to have regained all of his lost memories after the events seen in KotOR, which would have caused his power to skyrocket given the extent of darkside knowledge he actually knew.

I'd still place Nihilus above him, but I reckon they're about on par with eachother.

And KOTOR Sith were stronger then the Ancients.

That isn't even close to being remotely true. Simply saying that 'the KOTOR Sith were stronger than the Ancients' would imply that all of the Sith in the games - including the assassins, lackeys, and the guys from the Academy - were stronger than the Ancient Sith as well, and that's just stupid.

Furthermore, Kreia [one of those aforementioned 'Sith' whom you cite as being 'stronger' than the Ancients, and is perhaps the most informed of the Sith in that era] seems to think that the Ancient Sith are miles and miles ahead of the Sith in her era. At least for the vast majority. And while that isn't necessarily de facto truth, it does function as evidence, and it proves that - at least one Sith Lord thinks contrary to your belief.

Lastly, use logical deduction. Darth Bandon was a KOTOR-era Sith, and Ragnos would pretty much own him by looking at him. These were the Sith who - with the aid of technology [which KOTOR-Sith didn't have] could detonate stars and all other sort of stuff. Ragnos kept them in line, so he is easily far above the KOTOR-Sith with the possible exception of Revan and Nihilus.

Originally posted by Kadesh
ragnos has done nothing, so exar and nihilus comes after sidious, then revan and vader

Originally posted by Nikkolas
Well..ya know, Nihilus is just way stronger than Revan, right?

Or do you somehow think Revan, who doesn't have any quotes or feats to quantify his power is even close to Nihilus', is anything special when compared to a guy who kills planets?

And yes, they can. Ragnos required a scepter to do something Nihilus could do on his own and in greater effect. So much for the most powerful DLOTS who is kinda pathetic compared to all the Sith who came after him. Particularly Sidious and Nihilus. Confirmed fleet-destroyers and planet-killers while Ragnos' people threw bricks.

Good god, you just keep getting dumber. "Well if there are no quotes about Revan, hes not powerful!!". Your debating skills and fanboyism are really sad. And Nihilus killed A PLANET, not planets. Revan had ancient sith techniques that could destroy any force sensitive. His knowledge is vastly superior to Nihilus. Ragnos and his scepter also gave the force to non force sensitives, Nihilus can't do that. Ragnos' people nothing, those were other ancient sith. The death of Ragnos signified the end of the golden age, so it's logical to assume the sith during the golden age were VERY powerful.

I haven't played Jedi Academy in a long time, but I don't recall the Staff of Ragnos having the capability to 'destroy any Force sensitive', because I owned both Tavion and possessed-Tavion with the Force repeatedly, and didn't both of them wield the scepter?

I think what you meant to say is 'it could siphon Force energy', and it did. The staff would temporarily drain Force sensitive people until their energy replenished. It would also consume Force sensitive areas permenantly until the staff was destroyed.

LeGenD's idea that the Ancient Sith were weaker than the KOTOR-Sith is stupid, and rightly so [in fact, it's among the dumbest I've heard]. But, having said that, DS, not every Ancient Sith is allpowerful. With the exception of a few, Nihilus and Revan could probably own all of them. So, if you're implying that they are all greater, don't.

Originally posted by Gideon
I haven't played Jedi Academy in a long time, but I don't recall the Staff of Ragnos having the capability to 'destroy any Force sensitive', because I owned both Tavion and possessed-Tavion with the Force repeatedly, and didn't both of them wield the scepter?

I think what you meant to say is 'it could siphon Force energy', and it did. The staff would temporarily drain Force sensitive people until their energy replenished. It would also consume Force sensitive areas permenantly until the staff was destroyed.

LeGenD's idea that the Ancient Sith were weaker than the KOTOR-Sith is stupid, and rightly so [in fact, it's among the dumbest I've heard]. But, having said that, DS, not every Ancient Sith is allpowerful. With the exception of a few, Nihilus and Revan could probably own all of them. So, if you're implying that they are all greater, don't.

It's a possibility but most of you base the ancient sith ability on Sadow, who was powerful, but not a real combatant. However what most fail to realize is that the most powerful ancient sith were alive during the golden age of the sith, whatever the time frame was, but they are indeed unknown. However I don't think Nihilus or Revan could handle Ragnos but that may be due more to fanboyism than logic.

Well luke admitted he could not take on ragnos alone in JA

The empire Sidious acouse!jm

Originally posted by Kadesh
Well luke admitted he could not take on ragnos alone in JA

Originally posted by Tangible God
But since Luke's power multiplied by 693 as of DN...

While I will not necessarily dispute Ragnos's superiority over Luke [as of Jedi Academy], it should be known that Luke's research of Ragnos isn't exactly foolproof. Emperor Palpatine's purge has limited - even as of LotF - the Jedi's knowledge and artifacts. He said that it 'might' take the whole academy to stop Ragnos; he didn't know how powerful he might be.

Gideon is correct, though, I certainly don't agree with Marka Ragnos being any more powerful than Luke himself, even as of JA. Luke actually says, and I quote, "If Ragnos is resurrected there's no telling what he might be able to do". It's evident he had no idea what Marka was capable of, so I would hardly consider what Luke says as usable evidence.

Indeed. Luke, at that point, is a power house of his own.

As a whole, I really consider it unlikely Palpatine had the time or inclination to give Luke massive history lessons in between the Sith training.

So...Yeah,..Ragnos is nothing to Luke.

Ok, then its safe to assume ragnos should not be anywhere near the top 5 until he does something, he may be so strong he could fart and kill bane or he could be so weak r2d2 may just be able to pwn him

Originally posted by Kadesh
Ok, then its safe to assume ragnos should not be anywhere near the top 5 until he does something, he may be so strong he could fart and kill bane or he could be so weak r2d2 may just be able to pwn him

No he should be on the level of Revan or Kun, until more is known.

No, he shouldn't.

I am divided; where he 'should be placed' cannot be determined at this point in the juncture. However, the question of 'is Ragnos powerful' is a solid hell yes. In my opinion [and I was a firm supporter of the destruction of the Ancient Sith fanboys] he is definately one of the most powerful, managing to keep people like Sadow (who, with the aid of technology could devastate stars) in line for over a century.