Originally posted by ragesRemorse
😆 Brits wish they could be American...wannabes 😂
I dont.
Originally posted by vintageSW77
and africans putting a strain on housing,
Then Britain shouldnt have ****ed up Africa should it??? 😠
Originally posted by vintageSW77
of many a Smiths track being turned into something resembling an Afican township
Jerk. Not racist are we?
Originally posted by inimalist
absolutlyIt isn't necessarily the violence or sexuality that makes us imitate it, like why I mentioned Schindler's list above. Nobody saw that movie and tried to oppress Jews (lol, the Passion... lol.... I honestly just thought of that...).
Without getting too in depth, seeing violence as a form of conflict resolution, where an attractive hero kills people and never has to worry about the consequences of his actions, in some way legitimizes that action for ourselves. It has to do with the way our brain understands the actions and motives of others and its inability to distinguish from moving picture and reality.
But ya, darker, but honestly, less childhood exposure to murder. Of course its only 1 in 10000000 (whatever) kids that goes crazy from seeing cartoon violence, however it does predispose certain responses to certain situations.
I agree. Just having the villain, who has brutally taken dozens of lives over an hour and a half of the film, die at the end is not cutting it.
all this for a £3 dress
welcome to the UK 2007
im not racist Manchester has always had a high west indian population
im sick of seeing the city of Manchester being over took by Africans from Somalis to wherever
they have no inclination of integrating,have no care for the citys history and are just here on the take
its getting out of hand
i know what i see with own eyes and not from the press
and congrats for merging this thread
pretty pointless
why not merge the movie threads
itd make as much sense
From the Canada thread.
Originally posted by Alfheim
I think you already told me about Quebec. What about the Natives?
A good analogy between the issues with blacks in America and Natives in Canada can be made. They fill our jails, massive poverty, massive abuse (physical, psychological, substance), corrupt police.
But then there are all the policies we have had in the past that have ended up just making life worse for them.
At this point, the problem natives (that sounds terrible, I am only saying this to distinguish those natives that fit the description above from those who are successful, and there are many) live on government land or in low cost areas, are exempt from paying taxes and get many other benefits. My opinion is that this has let them become unaccountable, but thats another topic 🙂
An interesting story might be my friend S. S is a native who grew up in relative poverty. S had mild substance abuse problems but was able to get moderate grades in highschool. Because of S's native status, she was able to get into the University of Waterloo's Chemical Engineering Co-Op program (This is one of the world's best engineering schools. Normally required is something like a 90+ average to get in, which she did not have). Since S has been attending she has received many multi thousand dollar bursaries from organizations set up to support native students. This is not to say that she is not doing well in the program or that she will not make a good chemical engineer, it is just to paint a little more complexity onto the Native situation in Canada, rather than just saying "blacks"
Originally posted by Starhawk
It doesn't give them the right to do what they are doing. Canada's criminal justice system is still mostly a mess. But they have done great things in improving their civil court system and have been extremely receptive to native requests in the past. We gave them their own province. I think we can say we are trying, it's time for them to have some faith and work within the rules.
I agree with this pretty much 100%
A lot of native issues need to be settled with some finality, but the way certain groups go about getting their message heard is fanatical.
However, the government has never really dealt with the situations appropriately.
Originally posted by Starhawk
Thats a pretty impressive diatribe, now why not address my points on health care? You don't pay taxes, true, instead you pay high insurance costs in a system that is grossly mismanaged. And as I said if a person in the US gets seriously ill, they can be bankrupted by the medical expenses.And another point you skipped over, what about the people in society that cannot take care of themselves? The disabled and mentally impaired? Those born into poverty? Should they just die? No, we have a moral and in Canada thankfully a legal obligation to pay taxes to help not just ourselves but society as a whole.
Both of those are straw man arguments that if you have read my previous posts you would know I am not advocating
Further, the extremist tone of these straw men seems to indicate that you have a moral outrage at even just the suggestion of a private system, which is one of my complaints about debating this topic (re: too many people have too much emotionally vested interest).
Originally posted by inimalist
From the Canada thread.A good analogy between the issues with blacks in America and Natives in Canada can be made. They fill our jails, massive poverty, massive abuse (physical, psychological, substance), corrupt police.
But then there are all the policies we have had in the past that have ended up just making life worse for them.
At this point, the problem natives (that sounds terrible, I am only saying this to distinguish those natives that fit the description above from those who are successful, and there are many) live on government land or in low cost areas, are exempt from paying taxes and get many other benefits. My opinion is that this has let them become unaccountable, but thats another topic 🙂
An interesting story might be my friend S. S is a native who grew up in relative poverty. S had mild substance abuse problems but was able to get moderate grades in highschool. Because of S's native status, she was able to get into the University of Waterloo's Chemical Engineering Co-Op program (This is one of the world's best engineering schools. Normally required is something like a 90+ average to get in, which she did not have). Since S has been attending she has received many multi thousand dollar bursaries from organizations set up to support native students. This is not to say that she is not doing well in the program or that she will not make a good chemical engineer, it is just to paint a little more complexity onto the Native situation in Canada, rather than just saying "blacks"
I agree with this pretty much 100%
A lot of native issues need to be settled with some finality, but the way certain groups go about getting their message heard is fanatical.
However, the government has never really dealt with the situations appropriately.
In Canada we have done allot to try and improve the situation, giving them their own province I think is note worthy. But they have to realize that they will never get all the land back. Too much time has past and there is only so much we can do to accommodate them. They are exempt from taxes as well. I think we have done our part.
Originally posted by inimalist
Both of those are straw man arguments that if you have read my previous posts you would know I am not advocatingFurther, the extremist tone of these straw men seems to indicate that you have a moral outrage at even just the suggestion of a private system, which is one of my complaints about debating this topic (re: too many people have too much emotionally vested interest).
Okay you gave the politicians response and didn't address or counterpoint anything I said.
Here try again,
1)You don't pay taxes, true, instead you pay high insurance costs in a system that is grossly mismanaged. And as I said if a person in the US gets seriously ill, they can be bankrupted by the medical expenses.
2)what about the people in society that cannot take care of themselves? The disabled and mentally impaired? Those born into poverty? Should they just die? No, we have a moral and in Canada thankfully a legal obligation to pay taxes to help not just ourselves but society as a whole.
Originally posted by Starhawk
In Canada we have done allot to try and improve the situation, giving them their own province I think is note worthy. But they have to realize that they will never get all the land back. Too much time has past and there is only so much we [B]can do to accommodate them. They are exempt from taxes as well. I think we have done our part. [/B]
It can't be about doing our part though, because we cannot make up for hundreds of years of oppression.
There needs to be incentive for natives to get out of poverty. Maybe in the case of my friend that is exactly what we are doing.
I find that the ideological native groups do a lot to damage their own people by demanding more rights for their "way of life" and then expecting tax payers to give them a middle class western living standard.
And then there are the newspapers who like to try and compare reserves to 3rd world countries...
Originally posted by vintageSW77all this for a £3 dress
welcome to the UK 2007im not racist im sick of seeing the city of Manchester being over took by Africans from Somalis to wherever
its getting out of hand
i know what i see with own eyes and not from the pressand congrats for merging this thread
why not merge the movie threads
itd make as much sense
Yeah well why the **** didnt you just complain about their behaviour then? I didnt hear you say the immigrants were antisocial you said some **** about it being turned into an african township.
You got no right to complain about immigration but you got a right to complain about anti-social behaviour.
As for the natives I think both Starhawk and inimalist have good points.
Originally posted by inimalist
It can't be about doing our part though, because we cannot make up for hundreds of years of oppression.There needs to be incentive for natives to get out of poverty. Maybe in the case of my friend that is exactly what we are doing.
I find that the ideological native groups do a lot to damage their own people by demanding more rights for their "way of life" and then expecting tax payers to give them a middle class western living standard.
And then there are the newspapers who like to try and compare reserves to 3rd world countries...
We give them tax exemptions and many other advantages, we can only do so much on our end. They need to stop living in the past and acclimate to present day society.
ill stand by the township thing
i passed through an area near where i live for the first time in 5 years the other week
African foodshops everywhere and barely a white in sight and 5 years ago this was a mostly white area
so ill stand by what i say
they have changed the area and not for the good
its a ****ing dump and all the decent people have sold up and ****ed off
i forsee a ghetto in 6 years
Originally posted by vintageSW77
ill stand by the township thingi passed through an area near where i live for the first time in 5 years the other week
African foodshops everywhere and barely a white in sight and 5 years ago this was a mostly white area
so ill stand by what i saythey have changed the area
Exactly you're racist. You dont give a **** wether African people are civil or not, you just dont want them in your ****ing area.
Before I begin, let me give you the concept of a Straw Man.
Basically, it means that you are making an argument against points that I am not arguing for. Basically, I agree with your stance, and if you read what I have posted about health care I have been very specific in stating that there needs to be government involvement to enable accessibility to all people.
Originally posted by Starhawk
1)You don't pay taxes, true, instead you pay high insurance costs in a system that is grossly mismanaged. And as I said if a person in the US gets seriously ill, they can be bankrupted by the medical expenses.
1 - I would never argue in favor of high insurance costs
2 - I would never argue in favor of a mismanaged system
3 - I would never argue in favor of a system that bankrupts people
4 - High taxes are part of a trade off of pros and cons of the public private debate. I would personally much rather pay directly for high quality care could I afford it, however, I would never deny adequate care to someone simply because of cost.
Originally posted by Starhawk
2)what about the people in society that cannot take care of themselves? The disabled and mentally impaired? Those born into poverty? Should they just die? No, we have a moral and in Canada thankfully a legal obligation to pay taxes to help not just ourselves but society as a whole.
1 - I would never argue that the mentally or physically disabled can fend for themselves in a modern western economy, however groups that represent the physically disabled would (if only in favor of the physically disabled).
2 - I would never argue for a system that ostracized those in poverty from the institutions they need.
3 - I've never argued against taxation for certain medical expenditures.
4 - Moral obligation by its nature is subjective and its use in this context shows a lack of understanding of the basics in classical liberal AND conservative philosophy.
5 - Making such extreme counterexamples to points I am not even making is a sign that you are too emotionally involved in this issue to have a non biased opinion. This is what I see as being the most prevalent problem in reaching a real understanding of how best to deliver health care to the people ensuring both high end research and technology but also providing low end accessibility. In my honest opining the UK is probably the best example of this in the world.
Originally posted by vintageSW77
nothing against west indians etc
its about africans
Bullocks if you analyse what you're saying, you're using the anti-social behaviour as an excuse to dislike them. On further analysis we can see its not about the behaviour you just dont want them there.
If lots of W.Indians came and started changing the area you wouldnt like it either. Get a grip.
see it however you see it
theres too many here and longterm its going to lead to big ****ing problems
they arent exactly known for being married with two children
add the hiv epedemic and the cases of TB we are hearing
add to that some of them coming from violent places that have encouraged for some a violent lifestyle that they cant shrug off
its all ****ing bad news
West Indians intergated well
these Somalis etc are creating their own little ghettos and sure maybe they aint getting the chance but the majority dont want to
half of them cant even speak English for a start according to my pal who deals with new income claimants
wheres the communication
So to sum that up you want to have your cake and eat it too.
You either have to pay for heath care through insurance costs and out of your own pocket when the insurance companies try to weasel out of their end. Or you can pay taxes which in the end are much less of an expense and more manageable over the course of your life and help everyone.
The classic conservative model is that everyone should be able to pull themselves up on their own with as little help as possible, in today's world however that is simply unrealistic. And those people who can't do not deserve any less quality of health care or social services then the wealthier classes.
Taxes in the end help everyone, and it always amazes me that the ones who can most easily afford to pay them are always the ones complaining about them.