A character has to be legally under the cap BEFORE the rules are set in.
"Selene’s been shown to have trouble with high level tech in the past (hello Nimrod) Starks constantly tinkers with armor to adjust to the various matter manips in the Marvel universe. Selene vs Iron Man = Selene vs Nimrod II with more yellow." shocklaugh Stark's tech is nowhere near as good as Nimrod's. Nimrod was from more 100 years in the future.
In conclusion:
Selene = Iron Man level.
EVERY-SINGLE-POWER that can possibly put her as above Iron Man level is banned by the rules. All of them. Selene's immortal? Who cares, that's only because of a banned power. Selene can steal souls? Who cares, that's a banned tactic. Selene can use offensive Matter Manip on inanimate objects? Who cares that's banned too.
Can someone bring something to the table that isn't banned by the rules that puts Selene > Ironman?
The only thing I can think of is this shadow stuff that's no more then Intangibility and ignores the 15+ years of her getting physically hurt.
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
In conclusion:Selene = Iron Man level.
EVERY-SINGLE-POWER that can possibly put her as above Iron Man level is banned by the rules. All of them. Selene's immortal? Who cares, that's only because of a banned power. Selene can steal souls? Who cares, that's a banned tactic. Selene can use offensive Matter Manip on inanimate objects? Who cares that's banned too.
I thought Goober explained to you that the choices must be below IronMan BEFORE THE RESTRICTIONS ARE ADDED.
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
Sounds like Vision, Shadow Lass and Shinobi Shaw.
Since when do shadows have mass?
Vision and Shinobi alter their densities to become intangible. They still have mass when they're intangible that's how Graviton took Vision down.
Kitty Prydes controls the movement of her molecules when she passes through and object.
Don't know much about Shadow Lass, could she turn her body into a living Shadow?
Which is why 5 pages later Rachel one-shotted her with TK?
I interpretted it as TP, since TK didn't work earlier long.
But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt then what you're insinuating is that you're going to need Omega Level TK to take down Selene.
"Secondly one power of hers that wasn't mentioned. Selene has control over inanimate objects. The ground, opponents attire, metals etc..."Offensive Matter Manip is banned, Geo-kinesis is not over kill.
"Selene vs IronMan. IronMans suits smashes it's way through his skull. Then she mind rapes him once it's cracked open"
Selene’s been shown to have trouble with high level tech in the past (hello Nimrod) Starks constantly tinkers with armor to adjust to the various matter manips in the Marvel universe. Selene vs Iron Man = Selene vs Nimrod II with more yellow.
Nimrod is a machine from the future he has files on every mutant and future tech. You're comparing a a machine that has been specifically made to detain mutants to Extremis IronMan.
And you could say the same with Jean Grey vs. StarksJean holds Iron Man in place and rips helmet open. Then she mind rapes him once it's cracked.
Which Jean are you referring to. The one from New X-Men which can control Oxygen molecules and cause them to explode?
"IRRC Nimrod didn't do jack shit to her in the fight."Except blast her in the face with his phaser gun.
Which she deflected.
And to heal.
Can you prove this?
Or this?
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
And Selene will DIE (of age like the rest of us) if she doesn't feed.Unkillable my ass.
Are you sure about this. When they explained her life drain. It only says it restores her beauty and youth. Selene has been around for millenia.
She was vaporised on a molecular scale. Her molecules were dissassembled. What part could her death touch possibly play when her body is scrammbled molecularly.
Unkillable isn't the right word. She probably can be killed. But definitely not by anyone on Extremis IronMan level. The fact that she survived being moleculary dismembered automatically puts her over it.
More banned moves?"Not only that but conventional methods of killing are ineffective. Eg. Stake through the heart. Knife wounds. Bullets."
Only because of life drain.
God I wish people would actually take the rules into consideration when they call a character over powered.
By your logic someone could draft Dr Strange and not use and just ignore all his moves that place him over the caps.
Originally posted by illadelph12
As a judge do I have any say in the draft process?If so, Selene 👇
How someone could argue she's less powerful than Ironman or Ironman is equal to Nimrod with a straight face is beyond me.
Since you're a judge, I think your saying that should end the arguement. Unless you guys need a consensus?
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Since when do shadows have mass?Vision and Shinobi alter their densities to become intangible. They still have mass when they're intangible that's how Graviton took Vision down.
Kitty Prydes controls the movement of her molecules when she passes through and object.Don't know much about Shadow Lass, could she turn her body into a living Shadow?
I interpretted it as TP, since TK didn't work earlier long.
But even if I give you the benefit of the doubt then what you're insinuating is that you're going to need Omega Level TK to take down Selene.Nimrod is a machine from the future he has files on every mutant and future tech. You're comparing a a machine that has been specifically made to detain mutants to Extremis IronMan.
Which Jean are you referring to. The one from New X-Men which can control Oxygen molecules and cause them to explode?
Which she deflected.
Can you prove this?
Or this?
Are you sure about this. When they explained her life drain. It only says it restores her beauty and youth. Selene has been around for millenia.
She was vaporised on a molecular scale. Her molecules were dissassembled. What part could her death touch possibly play when her body is scrammbled molecularly.
Unkillable isn't the right word. She probably can be killed. But definitely not by anyone on Extremis IronMan level. The fact that she survived being moleculary dismembered automatically puts her over it.
By your logic someone could draft Dr Strange and not use and just ignore all his moves that place him over the caps.
1.) So you're saying it's wrong to say Selene's cool because Nimrod can take her down but right to say Vision and Shinobi are cool because someone more powerful who has access to powers nobody in this tourney does can?
2.) Who cares if Rachel Grey is omega level? Psylocke has TK that dwarfs hers and I'm pretty sure if someone drafted her nobody (well Trickster might) would throw fits. Hell Omega Rach couldn't do what Alpha Cable could with ease. Don't use the uberly retarded omega mutant logic this board likes to throw around to prove a point.
3.) So? Ironman routinely faces a foe who has a main power that is Matter Manip and constantly works on his tech, not to mention his armor (especially extremis) is way way way ahead of its time. Who's to say she can affect him? Btw Offensive Matter Manipulation is banned.
4.) 90's Jean.
5.) Which is why she was laid out on the ground, correct?
6.) Yes and yes.
7.) Selene is able to stay alive for the millinia because of the life drain constantly restoring her. She'll eventually wither away and die without it.
8.) That's not using my logic at all. I'm suggesting getting rid of the power all together since it's banned (but rules and averages don't matter anymore, apparently it's all about the banned powers now), you're suggesting lowering a power-level, neutering.
Selene can still punch as hard as she wants, run as fast as she wants, go as completely telepathic as she wants (as long as it falls within rules), use those Matter Manipulation powers in any non-rule breaking way she wants. Shoot if you want to ban Selene for being able to manipulate in-organic matter, might as well ban Gambit and Terra too.
PS: If someone wants to draft Dr. Strange - magic then by all means let them.
In conclusion:
let's do a tally on Selene
Telepathy - Under Caps
Telekinesis - Way Under Caps
Speed - Way Under Caps
Strength - Way Under Caps
Pyrokinesis - TOO OVER-POWERED BAN FIRE USERS I SAY!
Durability - Way under caps
Magic - Way Under Caps (Spiral and especially Dr. Druid, who was a listed example, have far better displays on panel)
Matter Manip - Under Caps (can't be used on anything organic)
Life Drain - Banned which takes away healing, immortality.
Soul Stealing - Banned
How the hell does this average out to above caps? If you're going to ban Selene for having an under the cap average with 2-3 banned moves keeping her above then I suggest banning the following (with reasons)
2.Hawkman - claw of horus
4.SPIRAL - magic
6.Warlock(New Mutants) - death touch
12.Spartan - Unkillable
1.) Indigo - Machine Telepathy
4.)Sabertooth - Healing factor comparable to Wolverine
5.)Moonstone II - Matter Manip
6.)Cosmic King - Matter Manip
7.)Umbra - Similar Shadow abilities with Selene.
well Ill agree with you....ban Indigo, Umbra, Warlock, AND Selene 🙂
Indigo is just a program created inside of brainaic 8 used to infiltrate the outsiders meaning her real power is >> Ironman (her at "full" power would be her as Brainiac), Umbra is JUST like nightshade, Warlock is *according to a bio* like engineer/metamorho, and Selene is just over the caps 😐
The rest? Hawkman doesnt get the claw, Spiral I dont know about, Spartan shouldnt be that bad in his first version, wolverine isnt banned so neither should sabertooth, the moonstone being used is not the one with two stone its the "classic" version, I dont know cosmic king
Moonstone still has matter manip which mean insta-ban because Ironman automatically loses to matter manipulators. Who cares about other powers? Moonstone can use this one ability that's against the rules and will result in a DQ to instantly turn the tables on any match!
Same with Cosmic King, except he only has matter manip.
Hawkman is now being neutered thanks to no claw of horus and should be banned anyway. Who cares if the rest of his powerset falls well within the caps? Ban him.
Wolverine breaks the unkillable and regeneration rule. Ban him
So does Sabretooth. Ban him.
Spartan cannot be killed as well. Ban him.