darthgoober's Amalgam Tournament Second Round Draft Thread

Originally posted by Joey Stacks
[B]1.) So you're saying it's wrong to say Selene's cool because Nimrod can take her down but right to say Vision and Shinobi are cool because someone more powerful who has access to powers nobody in this tourney does can?

Harry Leland would probably be able to do the same thing. So your point is moot. Part of Selene can be intangible and tangible at the same time...that is just ridiculous. And for the record Vision has been hurt by electromagnetism in his phased form. Selene is a shadow.

2.) Who cares if Rachel Grey is omega level? Psylocke has TK that dwarfs hers and I'm pretty sure if someone drafted her nobody (well Trickster might) would throw fits. Hell Omega Rach couldn't do what Alpha Cable could with ease. Don't use the uberly retarded omega mutant logic this board likes to throw around to prove a point.

First of all we don't even know if it was Telekinesis. It could have been Telepathy since Telekinesis had no effect on Selene at the beginning of the fight.
Secondly Psylocke has less finesse then Rachel, Rachel can rearrange stuff on a molecular scale. And apart from TK blasting and placing Telekinetic shields there's no OTHER powers that would place her over the caps.
Selene should banned beause of her Shadow Meld, Life Drain(Which is always on) and Soul Stealing. Her Life Drain ability is constantly on. There's no way round that. And last time I checked neutering was never allowed.

3.) So? Ironman routinely faces a foe who has a main power that is Matter Manip and constantly works on his tech, not to mention his armor (especially extremis) is way way way ahead of its time. Who's to say she can affect him? Btw Offensive Matter Manipulation is banned.

Whose to say Selenes control over inanimate objects works the same way as this foe? Nimrods arm is an X-Gene suppressor device. He has a database on every past event that occured and this database is updated everytime someone alters the future.
Secondly why do you think Techno-Virus Cable was banned?

4.) 90's Jean.

Seeing how limits were placed under Telepathy and Telekinesis at the beginning of the tournament. Then I'd see no problem with Jean.

Selenes ShadowMeld ability. And life drain ability which is constantly on. Automatically put her over the caps.

5.) Which is why she was laid out on the ground, correct?

You mean this?

6.) Yes and yes.

Then would you mind proving it?

7.) Selene is able to stay alive for the millinia because of the life drain constantly restoring her. She'll eventually wither away and die without it.

The other Externals never needed to. Selene is an External, the life drain is so she can restore her looks and maintain peak exertion of her powers.

8.) That's not using my logic at all. I'm suggesting getting rid of the power all together since it's banned (but rules and averages don't matter anymore, apparently it's all about the banned powers now), you're suggesting lowering a power-level, neutering. [/qote]

Removing powers completely eg. Her life drain. That IS neutering. She may not offensively be allowed to use it but there's nothing stopping her from using it defensively.
You're neutering her powerset another reason to see her banned.

[quote]Selene can still punch as hard as she wants, run as fast as she wants, go as completely telepathic as she wants (as long as it falls within rules), use those Matter Manipulation powers in any non-rule breaking way she wants. Shoot if you want to ban Selene for being able to manipulate in-organic matter, might as well ban Gambit and Terra too.

Selene should be banned because of her Shadow Meld mainly. Then there's the Soul Stealing which may not be allowed but it's still a power that places her over the caps. Which is the same reason why techno Virus Cable was banned.

PS: If someone wants to draft Dr. Strange - magic then by all means let them.

There are caps for a reason. BTW you'll have to wait for goobers decision. In any event you're not helping yourself. They will disqualify you on the spot when you try any funny business.

In conclusion:

let's do a tally on Selene

Telepathy - Under Caps
Telekinesis - Way Under Caps
Speed - Way Under Caps
Strength - Way Under Caps
Pyrokinesis - TOO OVER-POWERED BAN FIRE USERS I SAY!
Durability - Way under caps
Magic - Way Under Caps (Spiral and especially Dr. Druid, who was a listed example, have far better displays on panel)
Matter Manip - Under Caps (can't be used on anything organic)
Life Drain - Banned which takes away healing, immortality.
Soul Stealing - Banned

Pyrokinesis - Actually that's one power that would be under the caps.
Durability - Way over the caps. Add Shadow meld and she won't be hurt.
Life Drain and Soul Stealing - Neutering goes against the rules.

How the hell does this average out to above caps? If you're going to ban Selene for having an under the cap average with 2-3 banned moves keeping her above then I suggest banning the following (with reasons)

Take the rest up with Goober, we're discussing Selene here. The fact that 3 powers are over the caps means she's over the caps. Her durability is sickening. It's over the caps.

😐

yeah. selene was someone i considered for this.

the reasons above are why i chose NOT to pick her. 😐

and goob: any word on a time limit for drafts? we need a date set so that everyone is done and we can start this thing. 😬

Need to be re-drafted:

Speedfreek (less than 10 appearances)
Nightshade
Warlock - possibly
Indigo
Selene
Zxaxz

Can't remember if Umbra & Cosmic King were argued about.

I think we also need to develop a "One Trick Pony" rule for these tournaments for those characters that aren't as versatile or powerful as the cap but have one ability that puts them out.

Like Cloak.

Overall Ironman trumps him, but Cloak's one ability is a tactical ace in the hole against pretty much anyone sans PIS. Cloak was banned out the gate but he's not as "powerful" as Ironman. Things like that need to be fleshed out.

As for Warlock (of the Technarchy), he's also in that gray area. He's a techno-organic metamorph and he can consume matter by tranmission of the techmode virus to heal and reenergize himself. In fact, I remember reading in New Mutants when they were in Asgard that he was near death and bonded with Cypher to restore himself without killing Doug. He never displayed anything on panel that would make me say he's above Ironman, but given that he can take on the form of any device it becomes interesting. That ability is what makes him borderline.

Hmm...

Since neutering is banned I guess I'd have no alternative but to 👇

Matter manipulation needs to be re-addressed also. It would fall under the One Trick Pony rule I'm promoting. Matter manipulation directly on your opponent's being may be banned but I can think of a million ways to use that ability indirectly and still be untouchable. I think those abilities should be Herald level tourney only. Ironman level should just be energy manipulators, psi, tk, and the like. When you start having characters that can wave their hand and turn dirt into VX gas or vibranium it gets to be too much.

Originally posted by Scoobless
Need to be re-drafted:

Speedfreek (less than 10 appearances)
Nightshade
Warlock - possibly
Indigo
Selene
Zxaxz

Can't remember if Umbra & Cosmic King were argued about.

hm, has selene been CONFIRMED as someone who needs redrafting? i'd forgotten speedfreek's lack of appearances.

warlock and indigo are both still fine. warlock's abilities MAY need to be looked at by goob, but he'll likely pass as ok. indigo has already been stated to be within caps.

no one has mentioned umbra as over, nor cosmic king i don't think. 😬

Indigo is just a program created inside of brainaic 8 used to infiltrate the outsiders meaning her real power is >> Ironman (her at "full" power would be her as Brainiac *because remember we are going not by the limitations of the person who has the power, but by the power they actually posses)

*That then leads us to Umbra who has the same powers as nightshade, but less experience. However, being that the amalgam would have full powers and know how to use those powers, then she should be banned (and Val *the LoSH master* says as much that she is over)

I think delph has a point with matter manip, meaning I could see Cosmic King going, and a point with warlock

Remember, my opinion isn't the final say. It's up to Goob.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Indigo is just a program created inside of brainaic 8 used to infiltrate the outsiders meaning her real power is >> Ironman (her at "full" power would be her as Brainiac *because remember we are going not by the limitations of the person who has the power, but by the power they actually posses)

*That then leads us to Umbra who has the same powers as nightshade, but less experience. However, being that the amalgam would have full powers and know how to use those powers, then she should be banned (and Val *the LoSH master* says as much that she is over)

I think delph has a point with matter manip, meaning I could see Cosmic King going, and a point with warlock

b8>>ironman? 😑 proof? don't get caught up in the name 'brainiac'. the only obvious difference between b8 and indigo is a morphing ability with her arms. she actually showed a much wider variety of powers as indigo. most of the outsiders are well within caps. it's not as if she was shown beating down anyone ABOVE caps.

meh, whatever happens to her happens, but she seems fine to me. i've seen a po'd ironman do as much damage as she has done.

to go by the 'power they possess' is a bit hard to gauge anyway -- for example -- it is within tony's powerset to amp his armor's strength to what would be WELL above caps, and amp his armor to levels WELL above his norm. the power to do that resides within the armor so this is a power he possesses. does that move all caps up or should we ban tony because with a different body he will easily be amped beyond caps? people immediately wanted cable banned because putting him in a healthy body puts his power off the charts. in the same way tony 'limits' the armor. place the armor on a body or powerset that supplies limitless energy and the armor is instantly amped well above the caps. 😬 i understand that cable's power IS over caps and was LIMITED by cable's body. but it's the same thing for the armor.

i'm being somewhat facetious, but only somewhat. we gotta be careful with the criteria for this thing. that's why i'm fine with letting goob decide, and even BETTER with the idea of insta-bans in matches if evidence is shown that clearly shows the person as being over the caps. to me that saves a lot of problems and squabbling during drafts. if a problem comes up in a match, goob or the judges can rule on whether it is or is it within caps and the battle can go on. simple as that.

umbra has also been ok'd as far as i know, but i don't know her at all well.

warlock is ALSO fine until goob makes a specific ruling on him. 😬

Just checking one thing - Body characters are being used for basic strength/durability ... but if their body also contains other purely physical abilities (like Mr Fantastic) then those abilities are still there but they cannot be accessed? meaning he has limited elasticity but he can't deliberately change shape?

What about Bishop? his energy drain would still be on (as it isn't an on/off power) but he wouldn't be able to fire energy blasts?

Is that right?

yep ✅

So all powers that can't be switched off are still part of the body.... What about Cyclops?

cyclops needs to activate his power via his lens. someone could take him and take off the glasses and just keep blasting, i suppose.

i think anything that requires conscious thought to operate is turned off on a chosen body. least that's how i've always underdstood it. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
cyclops needs to activate his power via his lens. someone could take him and take off the glasses and just keep blasting, i suppose.

I don't think they could actually. Doesn't a prolonged time using the blast without the visor have negative effects?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I don't think they could actually. Doesn't a prolonged time using the blast without the visor have negative effects?

i don't know. what kinds of effects?

Originally posted by leonidas
i don't know. what kinds of effects?

I remember reading somewhere that he could only sustain a blast for so long before things got out of hand.

not sure it will be relevent. i'm not sure what negative effects there would be from continual blasting -- i'd think maybe the blasts would weaken or something, maybe . . .? but, other than that . . . 😕

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to pick Cyclops as the body character, I was just using him as an example.

😉

Originally posted by Scoobless
Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to pick Cyclops as the body character, I was just using him as an example.

😉

yeah, okay scoob -- he was an "example".

gotcha. 😉