I bumped this thread because some of the threads out there these days were just ridiculous.
And I didn't say you're dumb...you just don't get a lot of the logic in this particular argument...as don't others. Some do, some don't, that's why some tended to agree with me in the polls, and some didn't.
Anyway...let's see what others think of this last point I've made, shall we?
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
-Conversation with song titles?...(boy we did a great job with that one)-What song are you listening to NOW??...("now" as in every 5 minutes??)
-Hi 🙂 ...I like music???
Are these the threads that have taken over?
...
It was only a matter of time....and it's time.
Alpha Centauri, you don't get it...and neither do others.
WHAT did you just say in that last quoted post?
You (and others) STILL don't get the fundamental flaw that you all keep making...how can you DARE say...
[B]If someone says "I don't think this is good music." about a song you like by say, Metallica, they are not right or wrong, it's just their opinion.
...you CAN'T say that! According to you there IS NO SUCH THING as good or bad music...let alone an opinion on it! So the ONLY thing you could POSSIBLY tell the person is that they've just made an opinion about NOTHING.
There is NO "opinion" regarding good or bad music according to you...because good or bad music doesn't exist...right? So DON'T say "it's just their opinion"...as if that might mean something.
That'd be like me saying, "That tree is smart...that's just my opinion".
What? But there isn't such a thing as smart or dumb trees...so I've just made an opinion about nothing.
THAT'S basically the kind of reaction you should ALL have regarding music...
...but you don't.
And the reason you don't is because...
a) You STILL don't even understand your own argument (even though I keep posting the ONLY thing it could possibly mean)
b) You agree with me, but just don't know it.
Don't ANY of you EVER say "this band sucks" or "this band rules" because it means NOTHING...(according to you)...NOTHING. Not that you might be wrong about the band or that it's "just your opinion"...it means NOTHING. And the reason MANY of you aren't prepared to accept this is because you haven't really thought this stuff through yet...even your own argument.
So you think I'm wrong?...let's have 'er. [/B]
Maybe, just maybe it is time for suicide?
What happened to letting people post what they think, EP? Or is it only ok when you keep posting? Because you couldn't POSSIBLY want the last word...
Either drop it and let people give their debates of their own accord, or stop telling others to let others post.
Nobody cares anymore, EP. Just you, Mr. I'm in the company of Plato.
-AC
Here's the quote:
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
So you would ban Plato and other great ancient Greek philosophers becasue you can't comprehend what they meant by objective truths (including beauty). Yeah...that's right...I'm in that company.
Yet, you say things like: "I can't prove Britney is crap, I don't KNOW that she is, it's not a FACT that she is...but she IS CRAP.".
Yes, you're in the company of Plato...
We've all explained how, YOU have explained how. You just bury your head in your ass and suggest we all don't get it, but anyone who says "I understand you, even though I disagree.", you fellate.
Understanding isn't necessary, because your ultimate point is "There's an objective standard of good and bad.", and there's not.
YOU are wrong, EP. Why do you keep posting? What exactly are you trying to achieve? I'm honestly curious here. Are you trying to convert people? Are you trying to trick people? What's the deal?
You'll always be wrong.
So take time out from voting for yourself as if polls matter (Because I've honestly only ever see one person agree with your INITIAL point.), and do what you claim you want to do, let people reply if they desire to. They don't, though, because we've all grown to hate this thread, as it's just constant whooping, like the other thread, and the thread before that.
-AC
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, your reasoning is inaccurate, so who cares.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Everyone has an opinion about what music is good or bad, and that's all there is. I can't believe it still needs to be told to you.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
...we, as individuals, believe a band's music sucks or rules.
...even though you're saying there's NO SUCH THING as good or bad music...
Makes TONS of sense! Oh yeah.
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriWhat...music we hear?
Everyone except you, because you think there is one in music quality, i.e: The music we hear.
What are you on about...is this you trying to make up some wishy-washy differentiation about the music we hear and the music that "IS".
AC...I can tell by your posts that you don't know a whole lot about music...you don't know about writing music, you don't know about inspiration, composition and notation regarding music...and I can bet you don't know about production of music.
What's this "what we hear" stuff you're pushing now to try and sway the argument your way?
Amazing.
Do you honestly intend to babble until the trumpets sound or something?
Music, you know, that stuff we listen to. You believe there's an objective good and bad standard, you're wrong. It's not come to the point that I have to explain what we're discussing.
You can assume whatever you like about my knowledge, it's of no concern to me that some random idiot is trying to tell ME I know nothing of music, knowing nothing himself.
Notation, composition etc, these are technical aspects, they do not, in anyway, add or contribute to your point about good and bad music being true. Neither does inspiration.
Why? Because for the millionth time, music quality is entirely subjective. Good and bad music, based solely on what we personally perceive, nothing technical, is entirely subjective.
You'll keep ignoring it, people will keep whooping you, you'll keep being presumptuous, ignorant and annoying, and around we go.
-AC
*You do know what notation is don't you? It's simply the markings musicians use to write music..they're really isn't any provable good or bad "notation"...unless you've been drinking or something and you're writing's all over the place. What ARE you on about?
*And composition...the composition IS the music...being thought up and/or written out
If I say a piece of music is crap, I'm obviously also saying the thought up composition is crap...because that's the music. As far as the actual compostion being written out, what's been expressed by the writing can be crap (because again, what's being expressed is the actual msuic), but not the writing itself.
But again, you're saying composition (as in the writing itself) can be proved bad or good. And again, no it can't.
*And inspiration is something that I've always used as a determiner...so what are you talking about there?
You know what...honestly...for your sake and mine, you should maybe go find a thread that involves stuff you know something about...because explaining every single thing and having you blindly argue it is getting kind of hard.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
You do know what notation is don't you? It's simply the markings musicians use to write music..they're really isn't any provable good or bad "notation"...unless you've been drinking or something and you're writing's all over the place. What ARE you on about?And composition...the composition IS the music...being thought up and/or written out
How dumb can you possibly get...?
It doesn't matter what's being written, if someone doesn't like how it sounds and say "That's bad music.", they're saying they think it sounds bad, not that it isn't technically good. Technical talent doesn't equate to good music.
Why are you now moving onto notation? Nobody here was ever discussing technique or writing, that's not what the debate is about, it was about sound, how music sounds, not what's written.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
If I say a piece of music is crap, I'm obviously also saying the thought up composition is crap. As far as the actual compostion being written out, what's been expressed by the writing can be crap, but not the writing itself.Again, you're saying composition (in the writing itself) can be proved bad or good. And again, no it can't.
What the hell? Why are you talking about composition now?
The debate was about an objective standard in what is good or bad music; yes or no? The answer is no, there's not. It was never about composition or technique, or writing, or anything like that.
Stop trying to change your debate, Panic Boy.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
And inspiration is something that I've always used as a determiner...what are you talking about?
I know you have, it doesn't mean it helps prove your point.
Originally posted by EPIIIBITES
You know what...honestly...for your sake, you should maybe go find a thread that involves stuff you know something about...because explaining every single thing and having you blindly argue it is getting kind of hard.
I could leave and then everyone else would just do the same thing, so I think I'll stay.
You don't understand that it's not me, it's you.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriWhat the discussion is about is just "music". And to be clear...music is not only sound (as you say), it's a composition that's been created and exists (apart from its written form) in the writer's mind...much like a movie can exist in the writer's mind without ever having been filmed.
What the hell? Why are you talking about composition now?
A musical composition does NOT always refer to something written out. A composition can often refer to the actual music itself that's been thought-up...it's essence.
Saying "this is crap music" is referring to both things...the aural representation of what's been created (which is just an audible reflection of what's been thought up) and the creation itself...the thought-up composition.
Just like saying "this is a crappy movie" is referring to the visual representation of what's been created (which is just a visible reflection of what's been thought up) and the creation itself...what's been thought-up.
Saying "I hate Oops I Did It Again" means you hate the essence of "Oops I Did It Again"...not just the way it "sounds".
Saying "I hate Pirates of the Carribean" means you hate the essense of "Pirates of the Carribean"...not just the way it "looks."
So what's all this talk about how it "sounds"?
I'm just talking about a piece of "music". It's essence (the composition)...and it's audible representation (obviously).
There is more to music than how it "sounds"...you do know that...(and no, it's NOT just the notation and "written" composition).