Greatest Rpg's Of All Time

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Diablo isn't an RPG any more than Gauntlet was. The term 'RP' is stretched to breaking point on computers as it is- you don't play a role in Final Fantasy at all, it is mroe of an interactive story. KOTOR and Baldur's Gate are closer to the RP title. But regardless, if you call Diablo an RP, then so is... Doom. it just doesn't fit.

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I thought the common idea of what an RPG is just involves stats and having to 'level up' or progress the characters power in some way?

I mean you do assume the role of the main character in some final fantasies

as for Diablo you assume the role of some random hero looking to turn the tide of the sin war

but I guess thats why you have the hybrid genres.. action / rpg and so on

well, if it counts as an rpg, than diablo is very high on my list

so many nights of chilling in harrogath talkin with friends 🙂

yea
*remembers good ol' days*

*sits and remembers with you guys* *sigh*

i wish i could find my lod cd key 🙁

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
I thought the common idea of what an RPG is just involves stats and having to 'level up' or progress the characters power in some way?

I mean you do assume the role of the main character in some final fantasies

as for Diablo you assume the role of some random hero looking to turn the tide of the sin war

but I guess thats why you have the hybrid genres.. action / rpg and so on

That is no more role-playing than than you assuming the role of Gordon Freeman in Half-Life or the role of a Human commander in Starcraft.

Nor does levelling up/progressing in power make an RP, for several reasons, First of all, plenty of shoot-em ups have your ship, for example, becoming more powerful. They are not RPs. Secondly, RPs don't always involve you powering up during the game; this does not stop them being RPS. And frankly thirdly... just think, logically. The term 'role-playing' simply has no connection with what you say,

If Diablo used guns instead of swords, if you clicked on an area of the map and shot it, everyone would call it a shoot-'em up. But just because you have to get close it is called an RP? Nonsense, it is a pure action game.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That is no more role-playing than than you assuming the role of Gordon Freeman in Half-Life or the role of a Human commander in Starcraft.

Nor does levelling up/progressing in power make an RP, for several reasons, First of all, plenty of shoot-em ups have your ship, for example, becoming more powerful. They are not RPs. Secondly, RPs don't always involve you powering up during the game; this does not stop them being RPS. And frankly thirdly... just think, logically. The term 'role-playing' simply has no connection with what you say,

If Diablo used guns instead of swords, if you clicked on an area of the map and shot it, everyone would call it a shoot-'em up. But just because you have to get close it is called an RP? Nonsense, it is a pure action game.

yeah but none of the games you mentioned involve raising any kind of character stats.. thats an RPG element

I think KOTOR wouldnt be much of a role playing game if it didnt have stat increasing items / skill point systems... if it only had the choice dialogue it may as well have been a full FMV game where you pick "choice A" or "Choice B" to alter the storyline

"yeah but none of the games you mentioned involve raising any kind of character stats.. thats an RPG element"

Did you bother to read my second paragraph? It;s just a way if increasing your killing powerr in Diablo. Like getting a nice new gun.

Without levelling, KOTOR still would have had a fully interactive story, a personality that has in-game efffect that is up to you to define and a conversation system that changes people's attitudes- both your own and others- and affects the game world accordingly. That very much exactkly fits into the role-playing definition.

Levelling does NOT an RP make, and you have become seriously confused about the term if you think it does.

Oh dear...can I just say that I'm sitting here giggling at the fact that people are trying to argue what makes an RP with Ush, of all people?

Hahahahahaha...

Aaaaaaanyway, I'd have to go for FFX as my favorite.

nah, Diablo is an RPG, just an action one, if the creators say it is, then it is, nuff said, "role-playing game".....the only thing it seems you need is to play the role AS a character, so ime playing the role in Diablo as a Barbarian hero to rid the world of evil, its a role playing game still

Half life you play a role, but its far more shooting, its like a RPFPS, but still leveling up and stats is what i would still figuire of a role playing game

The creators can say it is a turnip if they want, it means bugger all. And you simply cxontradict yourself there, saying that the 'only' thing you need to do is play a role, but then going on to say that is not enough in Half-Life. At least try and be consistent.

In what way is Diablo more of an RP than a shooting game? All you do in Diablo is click on bad guys until they are dead and pick up what they leave behind. Your 'advancment' merely gives you more attack modes- just like picking up guns in Half-Life. Why does slashing = RP and shooting = arcade? It's dim nonsense.

In Diablo, you do not control the plot, you cannot converse with people (instead jjust hearing what they say), you cannot affect the game world in any way more significantly than you could in Gauntlet, R-Type, Final Fight, or any darn game where the objective is simply to destroy as many bad guys as possible.

What is this failure of logic that equates the term 'role-playing' with 'game in which you can become more powerful'? That is NOT what the darn phrase means!

It is not enough to just be in a role- that happens in nearly all games. Nor is your personal development anything to do with it, as that happens in lots of games that are nothing like RPs. At the very most, that can be called 'an RPing element', simply because it occurs in many RPs. But association does not mean identification. Lots of FPS games have machine guns in them; this does not mean that only games with Machine guns in them can be FPS games.

An RP game is one where your adoption of that role is one that has an affect on the world around you, rather than being pre-set. Computer RPs are nowhere near in scope with this compared to tabletop games, but they carve out a niche for themselves. BG counts, KOTOR counts, I have serious questions with FF counting but it is on the line. Diablo is way past that line, with the arcade shooter.

A term like 'RP' has to have meaning. If you just make up a random meaning that has nothing to do with what the words mean, you simply do language a disservice an ecnourage great confusion.

Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
KOTOR
Jade Empire

Elder Scroll games definitely count. Whether I like them or not, they nail the genre right on the head.

Pokemon Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold and Silver.

Final Fantasy X.

anata wa wakarimasu ka.....

Final Fantasy does rather toe the line when it comes to being an RP, but really, what else can you call it?

Meh, I'm a sucker for interesting plots and nothing's topped FFX for me on that.

Oblivion is my favourite, I did like Final Fantasy games, but I found the turn based gameplay became tedious. Still never let me down on story line though.

I wouldn't say its the greatest but my favorite would be KOTOR II.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
"yeah but none of the games you mentioned involve raising any kind of character stats.. thats an RPG element"

Did you bother to read my second paragraph? It;s just a way if increasing your killing powerr in Diablo. Like getting a nice new gun.

Without levelling, KOTOR still would have had a fully interactive story, a personality that has in-game efffect that is up to you to define and a conversation system that changes people's attitudes- both your own and others- and affects the game world accordingly. That very much exactkly fits into the role-playing definition.

Levelling does NOT an RP make, and you have become seriously confused about the term if you think it does.

fully interactive?.. as in how? Its still "choice A" or "choice B" through the entire game... choosing choice A alot makes everyone like you.. and the exact opposite with B.. thats too simple of a mechanic for me to find as a 'defining' role-playing element

Elderscrolls is most definitely an RPG... you have stat progression, the freedom of choice (killing, stealing, even kill off important plot characters), the 'emotion dial', questlines that give you a good reputation, immediate actions that can pretty much reverse that effect (vampirism), and you can create your own spells from the ground up.. freedom 'is' very necessary when it comes to RPGs, but its not available in all titles (cuz lets face it I dont think any studio spends as much time as bethesda in the developing room).

and getting a nice new gun is much more immediate than spending 24 levels to get your highest tier skills, and then another how many hours to get gear that will make those skills work, as "time spent playing" is big with RPGs... Formulas are also popular in the RPG genre... calculating defenses, elemental / magic damage, attack / miss rate

.. if you had to buy that new gun with 3,000 currency and each monster you kill drops 20 currency... thats an RPG element

having RPG elements makes the game partially an RPG, what can I say?

Originally posted by Lana
Oh dear...can I just say that I'm sitting here giggling at the fact that people are trying to argue what makes an RP with Ush, of all people?

nah, I wouldnt say I'm arguing.. I just find it very interesting to think about what really makes an RPG an RPG... as I do agree the term is abused quite often

Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
fully interactive?.. as in how? Its still "choice A" or "choice B" through the entire game... choosing choice A alot makes everyone like you.. and the exact opposite with B.. thats too simple of a mechanic for me to find as a 'defining' role-playing element

Elderscrolls is most definitely an RPG... you have stat progression, the freedom of choice (killing, stealing, even kill off important plot characters), the 'emotion dial', questlines that give you a good reputation, immediate actions that can pretty much reverse that effect (vampirism), and you can create your own spells from the ground up.. freedom 'is' very necessary when it comes to RPGs, but its not available in all titles (cuz lets face it I dont think any studio spends as much time as bethesda in the developing room).

and getting a nice new gun is much more immediate than spending 24 levels to get your highest tier skills, and then another how many hours to get gear that will make those skills work, as "time spent playing" is big with RPGs... Formulas are also popular in the RPG genre... calculating defenses, elemental / magic damage, attack / miss rate

.. if you had to buy that new gun with 3,000 currency and each monster you kill drops 20 currency... thats an RPG element

having RPG elements makes the game partially an RPG, what can I say?

agreed, i think ush garak is wrong of what an RPG is really in this respect, gettin a new gun in half life is nothing comparable to Diablo's gameplay. Ofcourse nobody can Argue with Oblivion being an RP