Originally posted by InnerRise
It's off topic simply b/c that's not what the thread was made for.Read the Title very carefully Lana as difficult as it may be: "GREATEST RPG'S OF ALL TIME" not "WHAT MAKES A RPG."
See the difference? You probably don't and there's not much more I can do for you.
And of course my "INCORRECT OPINION" was unwanted, b/c you people are all for this off topic discussion.
I'm done now. I've done nothing but help you take this thread off topic even further.
Anata wa wakarimasu ka.....
You did not create this thread so you cannot say exactly what it was made for.
Yes, it is titled "Greatest RPGs of all time". It is about RPGs. Therefore, discussion about RPGs in an RPG thread is technically NOT off-topic. How hard is this to get?
And your opinion is unwanted because it is incorrect. It is as simple as that. As I said, last I checked you are NOT a mod. Thus it is in no way your decision as to whether or not something is off-topic.
Now, I will say it one more time - shut it. Because if I DO hear another word from you, it will be a warning. You should know better than to argue and ignore a mod decision by now.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Because it is faintly disutrbing to have people thinking you can make apple pie out of cherries?
Well, I suppose you could probably make an apple pie that had some cherries in it...
Though that wouldn't really be an apple pie anymore. More like some sort of hybrid.
Cherries are better anyway.
And you have Fallout as another classical role-playing game example. You can choose whether you play a murderous bandit or charismatic scientist trying to solve problems by force. In Fallout 2 you can even become a porn star if you want, or get married. 😛 It is so much more than simply killing stuff....
Oh, and has anyone played old games Dragonlore 2 and Lands of Lore 2? I am not sure how they would fit.
The Shadow Hearts series is pretty much the best thing out there, consol-RPG-wise (I don't play PC games, so I can't speak for them). They could stand to be a little more open--there's not much exploration to be done, since you can't wander about the world map--and they tend towards the easy side of things, but they're still completely brilliant.
Can I say Final Fantasy tactics without a hoard of screaming people descend on me to make pie analogies and scream about how that's a tactics game, not an RPG? To hell with it; I'm listing it anyway.
The Final Fantasy series is badly overrated. And I mean all of it, not just the recent games. But FF6 was cool at the time. Probably wouldn't replay it, though.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Holy geez, there is a lot of nonsense there.
Yeah.. cuz this statement has much to do with the discussion...
can we lay off the insults now?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
First of all, there is NOT only one ending to KOTOR. Check your facts next time.
because saying "pretty sure" = "fact"... 😉
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Secondly, the 'more' is that your decisions affect what happen to a. yourself b. your relations with other characters and c. the plot of the game. These mix together to create hundreds of different combinations; an approach Baldur's Gate II used first.
🙂.. I would like to see more of this type of responding.. because its informative rather than condescending (which really does something for the discussion). I have only tried a demo of a baldurs gate on Ps2, I havent played the baldurs that people deem excellent
as for the 'more' .. this isnt a 'defining' rpg element.. but it is most definitely one of them
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Thirdly, this sentence of yours:"so if you started out the same person that you ended the game with.. that would be an RPG?.. lol... "
Is just nonsense.
you would know... it was a response to you mocking character progression and dismissing it entirely
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Fourthly, you can easily beat Diablo without the top tier powers. In fact, several of them are much worse than the ones below. The same goes for Elder Scrolls games. This entire point of yours is hogwash. There is no fundamental difference between becoming more powerful by skill or by weapon- they are both simply game-based add-ons.
And how does this help what you're saying? you admitted to a degree that progression is necessary to defeat diablo (even getting middle tier skills involves progression)
As I've said.. progression is an RPG element
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Fifthly, buying equipment is NOT an RP element, it is an element that happens to be in a lot of RPs. That is entirely different,. Once again, you are confusing correelation with causation, a basic logical error. You can buy equipment in dozens of games- several fo which actually pre-date the RP genree on computer- that have nothing to do with being RPs.
just because the main game isnt an RP, doesnt take away from equipment buying being a role playing element.. many games take elements from one another
basically, I buy this 'sword of whatever'.. that increases my damage from 1 point to 5 points of damage... rpg element
Originally posted by Ushgarakwhy isnt it?.. if you're role-playing.. what better way than to bring an aspect thats familiar to home?
Sixthly, balancing gameplay has nothing to do with anything. Seventhly, a free market has nothing to do with being an RP either. How can you possibly make that link? This is such a mental block you have here.
making the weapons cost money means you wont be buying rifles on the first round... gameplay balance via an RP element. how can you go wrong?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And finally... a. wikipedia is not an offical source of uncounterable knowledge, it is simply wirtten by people often just as clueless as you. Secondly, even if it was, that's an encyclopedia, not a dictionary.
/sigh again with the insults.. this is terribly boring to me.. if you have nothing better to offer than call me clueless.. why are you even responding to me? Again, I'm not arguing.. if you want to argue thats all you.. I'm here for information and nothing more
Originally posted by Ushgarak
None of these elements you describe have anything do do with what the term role-playing means. The term is all about having an interactive role with a truly interactive environment- an alternate reality which attempts (with varying degrees of succes) to have you being able to play that role is if you were actually there.Games like KOTOR or Elder Scrolls try to do that. Games like Diablo do NOT. They are just about killing things and nothing else. Playing a role has nothing to do with buying things, finding things, or even, necessarily, with becoming more powerfulLike I say, if Diablo had guns rather than swords, people wouldn't call it an RP. The mental deficiency involved here is amazing- the way that swords and fantasy suddenly make it an RP. Very very odd indeed.
No one ever said that involving guns wouldnt make diablo an RP.. where have I said that? but thats why its called an Action/RPG
and not pure RPG... because its a Hybrid Genre
(Yuna has guns in FFX-2, and its called an RP.. so yell at squeenix I guess)
if pistol does 1 to 5 damage, and shotgun does 10 to 40.. thats an RP element
I didnt label diablo an Action / RPG.. blizzard did.. (or whoever does that)
I 100% agree with the immersion factor being an important element... but I firmly believe that ALL games are supposed to attempt accomplishing this task, not just confining it to the RPG genre...if they didn't.. why bother playing games at all? As they are all supposed to be some form of escape for gamers
Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
I think the whole "Video Game RPG" argument boils down to simply "Game Mechanics".There are cultural difference with Eastern RPG (FF) and Western RPG (Oblivion) and what makes a great RPG isn't important as how much fun you had playing the game.
Honestly people, we're not authorities here...some people like apple pie..others like cherry pie...and so on.
Aye, well spoken 🙂
Originally posted by chillmeistergen
Thought you were done?What does 'anata wa wakarimasu ka.....' mean?
it means "do you understand?"
as for my fave RPG (and RP/Hybrid of course)
-Diablo Series - 1 , 2 and 2's expansion
-Elderscroll's Series - daggerfall, oblivion(I still feel that daggerfall is still the more superior elderscrolls game, due to its gameplay mechanics)
-Final Fantasy Series - 6, 7, 10 (and so far 12 is very nice too)
-Chrono Trigger.. I didnt care for chrono cross
the warhammer people should make more PC games on an RPG level (rather than all the RTS / MMO they've been crankin out as of late)
Originally posted by SaTsuJiN
it means "do you understand?"as for my fave RPG (and RP/Hybrid of course)
-Diablo Series - 1 , 2 and 2's expansion
-Elderscroll's Series - daggerfall, oblivion(I still feel that daggerfall is still the more superior elderscrolls game, due to its gameplay mechanics)
-Final Fantasy Series - 6, 7, 10 (and so far 12 is very nice too)
-Chrono Trigger.. I didnt care for chrono crossthe warhammer people should make more PC games on an RPG level (rather than all the RTS / MMO they've been crankin out as of late)
yh warhammer rp would be cool
and HOW CUD ANY1 NOT CARE FOR CRONO CROSS, PERHAPS THE HOLY GRAIL OF RPG'S {along with final fantasy 9} i do know that these games get a lot of heats for either straying from the crono trigger look, or not living upto ff7, but CMON, in my humble oppinion crono cross is better than crono trigger n ff9 is DEFINATLEY better than ff7 heck its even slightly better than 6{although the gap is very close}. cmon just cause old school people didnt wanna accept sum new school stuff doesnt mean theyr not any more classic then their 2d predecessors. or original.
btw only shadow hearts 1 and 2 were good. 3 sucked {sorta decent game but not really GREAT in any way shape or form}