Originally posted by Starhawk
Yup pretty much, money doesn't matter much if you have no planet to live on.
Well with your plan, we would surely have enough of a planet to live on, if a quarter of the total worth population would die that would give us a lot of housing. Of course it wouldn't prevent any of the problems you want to prevent but we would have a lot of room for houses.
Yes it would, we need to clean up our air and water, we need to find new ways of getting rid of our garbage, we need to invest more in health care.
The problem is too severe to go begging to big business and other countries, we need to force them to make the changes that are needed to save the planet.
Originally posted by Starhawk
Yes it would, we need to clean up our air and water, we need to find new ways of getting rid of our garbage, we need to invest more in health care.The problem is too severe to go begging to big business and other countries, we need to force them to make the changes that are needed to save the planet.
You just don't get it do you? Increasing taxes on company's will make them leave sooner so they can ignore your bullshit taxes and your bullshit laws, and your bullshit fines. All it would do is hurt your economy. It would hurt everybody.
You just don't understand that.
What's worse is that you are also putting ten things and grouping them together. You still haven't given any prove I asked for long ago, and all this crap that you put in the most recent post can only be helped by a stronger economy, not a falling one. I also find it really funny that you put health care on there?
What are you an idiot? Health care is important to you, so important that you are willing to kill millions of people to improve it?
Originally posted by FishyWhat's worse is that you are also putting ten things and grouping them together. You still haven't given any prove I asked for long ago, and all that you put in the most recent post can only be helped by a stronger economy, not a falling one. I also find it really funny that you put health care on there?
Health care is important to you, so important that you are willing to kill millions of people to improve it?
What use is the economy if we are all dead because the planet is unlivable?
Originally posted by Starhawk
What use is the economy if we are all dead because the planet is unlivable?
Again none of those things you mentioned will do that, and they can only be prevented by investing in things. Making things deductible will do a lot to make company's invest in things like that.
Besides what good is a livable world if you don't have a house, a food, an economy to support it? Poverty is still the number one killer in the world, if it would spread to the entire world then it wouldn't matter anymore in what kind of shape the world is because we would never live to see the end of it anyway.
Also it seems that you fail to understand that the weaker the economy of a country is the cheaper the solutions they must find to keep things running. Cheaper solutions are often worse for the environment.
Originally posted by Fishy
Again none of those things you mentioned will do that, and they can only be prevented by investing in things. Making things deductible will do a lot to make company's invest in things like that.Besides what good is a livable world if you don't have a house, a food, an economy to support it? Poverty is still the number one killer in the world, if it would spread to the entire world then it wouldn't matter anymore in what kind of shape the world is because we would never live to see the end of it anyway.
In addition to Kyoto, we need to tighten laws on polluters, and levy very very high fines against companies that pollute but air and water. We need to force all countries to get more serious about environmental reform.
We would still have an economy, enacting these measures won't destroy the economy, maybe inconvenience it but not destroy it, the marketplace has been hit harder int he past and bounced back, they just have to find new ways of doing things.
Originally posted by Starhawk
In addition to Kyoto, we need to tighten laws on polluters, and levy very very high fines against companies that pollute but air and water. We need to force all countries to get more serious about environmental reform.We would still have an economy, enacting these measures won't destroy the economy, maybe inconvenience it but not destroy it, the marketplace has been hit harder int he past and bounced back, they just have to find new ways of doing things.
Forcing all country's to comply is impossible, completely unrealistic and will kill millions.
Now let's ignore you murdering millions of people and just look at how realistic it is? It isn't at all. It just can't happen, impossible.
Then let's look at other options, you could massively hurt your own economy to comply with something that won't help because the result of the world won't comply, and because there is a very big chance it's all bullshit anyways and nothing would help...
Or you could invest in cleaner factory's and new technology.
Originally posted by Starhawk
In addition to Kyoto, we need to tighten laws on polluters, and levy very very high fines against companies that pollute but air and water. We need to force all countries to get more serious about environmental reform.We would still have an economy, enacting these measures won't destroy the economy, maybe inconvenience it but not destroy it, the marketplace has been hit harder int he past and bounced back, they just have to find new ways of doing things.
China is possibly the biggest (and most powerful) polluters currently, their industrial companies dump waste directly into the rivers and the government turns a blind eye for the sake of "economic growth". How do you propose "we" (I assume you don't mean just Canada?) make China comply?
If you're going to rant about taking action, have a sensible scenario to carry it out.
Originally posted by Fishy
Then let's look at other options, you could massively hurt your own economy to comply with something that won't help because the result of the world won't comply.Or you could invest in cleaner factory's and new technology.
It won't "massively" hurt it, more like inconvenience it. And we don't have the money to invest, again because of a lack of tax revenue from those businesses.
We would still have an economy, enacting these measures won't destroy the economy, maybe inconvenience it but not destroy it, the marketplace has been hit harder int he past and bounced back, they just have to find new ways of doing things.
Originally posted by Starhawk
It won't "massively" hurt it, more like inconvenience it. And we don't have the money to invest, again because of a lack of tax revenue from those businesses.We would still have an economy, enacting these measures won't destroy the economy, maybe inconvenience it but not destroy it, the marketplace has been hit harder int he past and bounced back, they just have to find new ways of doing things.
Again, give a sensible scenario and not just basically say "It will happen somehow"... "Finding new ways" cost money, lots of money; who do you think will suck up that cost? The consumers will, and I'd bet you'd cry like a school girl if your stylishly-torn black pants now cost you $40.00 dollars instead of $15.00.
Originally posted by Robtard
Again, give a sensible scenario and not just basically say "It will happen somehow"... "Finding new ways" cost money, lots of money; who do you think will suck up that cost? The consumers will, and I'd bet you'd cry like a school girl if your stylishly torn black t-shirt now cost you $40.00 dollars instead of $15.00.
LOL I wont worst fashion sense in high school actually. No the consumer won't suck it up, because they will just go to a place like Wall-mart and buy foreign things cheaper, increasing taxes is the only feasible way.
Originally posted by Starhawk
LOL I wont worst fashion sense in high school actually. No the consumer won't suck it up, because they will just go to a place like Wall-mart and buy foreign things cheaper, increasing taxes is the only feasible way.
"Emo" kids tend to dress rather clownish, not surprised.
You did say "they'll have to find new ways", that's what I was addressing. New ways = Money
Originally posted by Starhawk
It won't "massively" hurt it, more like inconvenience it. And we don't have the money to invest, again because of a lack of tax revenue from those businesses.We would still have an economy, enacting these measures won't destroy the economy, maybe inconvenience it but not destroy it, the marketplace has been hit harder int he past and bounced back, they just have to find new ways of doing things.
Yes it will, you will tax company's for something that they can't afford. They can simply leave to other country's and get things done cheaper. Taxing and punishing won't work.
Originally posted by Fishy
Yes it will, you will tax company's for something that they can't afford. They can simply leave to other country's and get things done cheaper. Taxing and punishing won't work.
Yes it will. First off, they are going to leave no matter what and they are going to outsource now matter what. We can't afford to pay what is needed to make it cheaper.
I really think you need to do whatever is necessary to remove the dollar signs from your eyes so you can see this situation for what it is.
Originally posted by Starhawk
Yes it will. First off, they are going to leave no matter what and they are going to outsource now matter what. We can't afford to pay what is needed to make it cheaper.I really think you need to do whatever is necessary to remove the dollar signs from your eyes so you can see this situation for what it is.
How stupid are you really?
If they are going to leave it will cost Canada billions of dollars, you do understand that right?
Now you say they are leaving already, what do you think the biggest factor for this is? Taxes, the increasing costs of doing business in Canada.
How would you fix this? By increasing taxes.
Natural effect, company's that want to leave would leave sooner and have a greater reason to do so.
Company's that didn't want to leave will do so anyway because they can't compete with company's that do anymore.
Company's that don't have the money to leave, don't have the money to support the Canadian economy.
Result, Canada will go bankrupt.
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Now you create tax loopholes for them to write of their expenses and you reduce the advantage they get from outsourcing and leaving the country.
Doing this will make it less profitable and with the huge risk and costs involved in moving a company they will be more likely to stay. They will also make more money, which you can tax. The money they can use in loopholes goes back to the community anyway, meaning less for the government to do.
We have already been over this.
I've already showed you socialism like you want it won't work. Saying otherwise doesn't make it true.
All you are doing is forcing company's to move away faster. Idiotic to the extreme, and it certainly won't help the environment.
Besides the two company's you have constantly mentioned that can pay for this. GM and Ford are both American company's. Where GM has a debt of 300 billion dollars (more then the Netherlands) and Ford actually lost money last year. They lost 12.6 billion.
Do you think they are going to keep factory's in Canada open if you are going to increase taxes greatly?
Of course not, they aren't stupid.
Originally posted by Fishy
Do you think they are going to keep factory's in Canada open if you are going to increase taxes greatly?
My worry is about the environment, not big businesses profit margin.
And yes I do think that it will help the environment if we force companies to stop polluting and lay heavy fines on ones that do as well as criminal charges against the company and CEO.
And yes taxes are a way to help pay for clean up initiatives to fix our already polluted water and air supplies, as well as stem the tide of species going extinct.
Get it through your head, I am willing to inconvenience the economy in order to save the planet.
Originally posted by Starhawk
My worry is about the environment, not big businesses profit margin.And yes I do think that it will help the environment if we force companies to stop polluting and lay heavy fines on ones that do as well as criminal charges against the company and CEO.
And yes taxes are a way to help pay for clean up initiatives to fix our already polluted water and air supplies, as well as stem the tide of species going extinct.
Get it through your head, I am willing to inconvenience the economy in order to save the planet.
Get it through your head, your idea's are retarded.
If you punish a child for pissing his pants will he stop? No.
If you reward a child for pissing in the toilet will he do that more often? yes.
It's basic human behavior, most people would understand that. Give them advantages for helping the environment and they will. Tax them more and they won't. Besides these problems you are talking about now, are not going to destroy the planet. Not unless people like you come in power, when it will kill tens of millions if not much more of people.
And criminal charges are you ****ing retarded? No wait don't answer that I already know....
This is the most idiotic thing I ever heard, not only will you force company's to go bankrupt, leave the country and what not but you are also forcing them to never hire a new CEO because nobody will be retarded enough to work as a CEO in a country where your idea's would be followed.