Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
First, God is sovereign so He can do as He wishes.Second God "tests" or rather "proves" the faith of those who are claim allegiance to Him.
Question: did God allow Abraham to go through with it? The answer is no so what is the problem?
Do I realy I have to answer that?The problem is quiet obvious.The god of love great test is sicking and just plain evil.Stories like this is what convinced Valintinus that their were two different gods.He belived the OT god and NT god were two different beings.Any god who would test his followers like that is a mentaly ill being and should probably be in a comic book.What if god would have asked Abraham to crash a plain into the twin towers?would that be ok too?
If someone living 'today' told me god told them to kill their baby to prove their loyalty & then was told by their god it was only a test,I would call the cops and have the child taken away.Anyone with common sense would call such a person mentaly unstable.
The interesting thing about that story is that God had promised Abraham that he would be the father of many nations through Isaac. The calmness of Abraham is emphasized in the original text and it become obvious that Abraham knew that if he killed Isaac God would raise him from the dead anyways to fulfill his promise.
Originally posted by Nellinator
The interesting thing about that story is that God had promised Abraham that he would be the father of many nations through Isaac. The calmness of Abraham is emphasized in the original text and it become obvious that Abraham knew that if he killed Isaac God would raise him from the dead anyways to fulfill his promise.
The very fact leaves the story quiet insane still.For a god to do that,correction a loving god,is just plain wrong.
Originally posted by mr.smiley
Do I realy I have to answer that?The problem is quiet obvious.The god of love great test is sicking and just plain evil.Stories like this is what convinced Valintinus that their were two different gods.He belived the OT god and NT god were two different beings.Any god who would test his followers like that is a mentaly ill being and should probably be in a comic book.What if god would have asked Abraham to crash a plain into the twin towers?would that be ok too?If someone living 'today' told me god told them to kill their baby to prove their loyalty & then was told by their god it was only a test,I would call the cops and have the child taken away.Anyone with common sense would call such a person mentaly unstable.
But God would not tell you to kill your child. There are deeper spiritual implications with regard to God telling Abraham to do it, that at the surface you do not understand. At first view it just looks like God wanted to see if Abraham would do whatever God commanded. God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice His only begotten son. God knew what "He" was going to do (God was prepared to intervene and stop Abraham from going through with the sacrifice.) God knew that Abraham fully trusted Him, but Abraham needed to know "practically," that he trusted God (not just theoretically.) For example, I can say that I believe God or that I trust him in a given situation, but if that situation never arises then how will I really know that I trust God? Faith must be "tested" for it to be developed and strengthened. How do you know that you can trust your significant other unless you allow her to do things and go places without you present? How do you know that you can trust anyone to do anything that they promise? How do you know that you can solve complex equations? You must be tested right? If you can't do those problems then the test will reveal this. Well, Abraham's test just happened to involve his son. God was getting ready to do things in Abraham's life that He had never done in anyone's life. God knew that ultimately His only begotten Son Jesus Christ would be a descendant of Abraham. But the Bible states that without faith it is impossible to please (God). Abraham trusted God insofar that He believed that even if He sacrificed his son Isaac that God would raise him from the dead because God had promised to make Abraham a great nation. Abraham trusted and believed God so much that He didn't hesitate to go through with the test (even though Abraham did not know that it was a test). Abraham trusted God and believed His promises with all of his heart. Faith is complete trust in the Word of God. Similarly, Christians believe that they are saved from their sins and on their way to Heaven on the basis of the Word of God that promises them this. Just like Abraham we are willing to sacrifice our time, energy, effort, reputation, finances, family relationships, goals, interests, job, or whatever is at stake to take God at His Word and exercise faith in Jesus Christ for salvation from sins. Believe it or not most Christians have never seen God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or Heaven, but they still live their lives in subjection to Him through what: His Word. That's it? Yep.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^ The problem with a test is, the idea that god did not know how Abraham would work. There are things that the god of the bible does not know, that means god is not all knowing.
You failed to understand what I wrote.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
But God would not tell you to kill your child. There are deeper spiritual implications with regard to God telling Abraham to do it, that at the surface you do not understand. At first view it just looks like God wanted to see if Abraham would do whatever God commanded. God never intended for Abraham to sacrifice His only begotten son. God knew what "He" was going to do (God was prepared to intervene and stop Abraham from going through with the sacrifice.) God knew that Abraham fully trusted Him, but Abraham needed to know "practically," that he trusted God (not just theoretically). For example, I can say that I believe God or that I trust him in a given situation, but if that situation never arises then how will I really know that I trust God? Faith must be "tested" for it to be developed and strengthened. How do you know that you can trust your significant other unless you allow her to do things and go places without you present? How do you know that you can trust anyone to do anything that they promise? How do you know that you can solve complex equations? You must be tested right? If you can't do those problems then the test will reveal this. Well, Abraham's test just happened to involve his son. God was getting ready to do things in Abraham's life that He had never done in anyone's life. God knew that ultimately His only begotten Son Jesus Christ would be a descendant of Abraham. But the Bible states that without faith it is impossible to please (God). Abraham trusted God insofar that He believed that even if He sacrificed his son Isaac that God would raise him from the dead because God had promised to make Abraham a great nation. Abraham trusted and believed God so much that He didn't hesitate to go through with the test (even though Abraham did not know that it was a test). Abraham trusted God and believed His promises with all of his heart. Faith is complete trust in the Word of God. Similarly, Christians believe that they are saved from their sins and on their way to Heaven on the basis of the Word of God that promises them this. Just like Abraham we are willing to sacrifice our time, energy, effort, reputation, finances, family relationships, goals, interests, job, or whatever is at stake to take God at His Word and exercise faith in Jesus Christ for salvation from sins. Believe it or not most Christians have never seen God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit or Heaven, but they still live their lives in subjection to Him through what: His Word. That's it? Yep.
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I always fail to understand what you write (copy paste). 🤪Give it to me in no more then 3 short sentences.
The part that you do not understand or the whole God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son part?
If it is the latter case, then I can answer that in one sentence:
"...God knew that Abraham fully trusted Him, but Abraham needed to know "practically," that he trusted God (not just theoretically)...."
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The part that you do not understand or the whole God telling Abraham to sacrifice his son part?If it is the latter case, then I can answer that in one sentence:
[b]"...God knew that Abraham fully trusted Him, but Abraham needed to know "practically," that he trusted God (not just theoretically)...."
[/B]
So, Abraham really didn't have true faith, so god helped him gain full faith?
Of course the Bible contradicts itself.
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.