A load of ambiguous references mean nothing because they could just as well be illustrating my interpretation as they could yours. You need to learn and accept that when things are open to interpretation you have no authority here to wade in and proclaim yours as the gospel truth to be regarded above all others, especially when you are not backed by any conclusive, scale defining statements.
Your ambiguous references can be interpreted as i have plus on top of that i have many scans actually defining the scale of the warp as GLOBAL.
Find some saying UNIVERSAL and you'll have a case. Until then keep on trying son! 😱
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Sorry GS, but you just killed your credibility by trying to downgrade Jaspers.
✅
"You're smart, we should debate sometime"
Isn't that the most condenscending crock of shit you ever seen?
If you agree with him you're smart,
if you disagree, you're an ignorant child or one of Mr M's cronies.
😆
Truly "ambiguous" yall:
Wanda was the CAUSE of the Chaos Wave, that Roma could Not Ascertain
Wanda was Generating the Chaos Wave.
Wanda Remade the 616 Reality
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"
Wanda was Driving the Chaos Wave into other Realities, like when it hit OtherWorld
"it is the End ... of ALL that is ... of ALL that will Ever be"
THIS SAME Chaos Wave brought back Jaspers 616 from another Plane of Reality:
THIS SAME Chaos Wave is referred to as "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"
in the Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe v5 2006.
In THREE separate Bios
1. "During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp, Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury"
(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)
2. "Mad Jim Jaspers has also returned, brought back to life by the Scarlet Witch's recent Reality Warp"
And as I presented above, it was the Chaos Wave that manifested Jaspers 616 from another Plane. (he was dead)
3. Wanda gave Layla the power to "Perceive Divergent Realities"
"Layla showed Cage glimpses of his life prior to the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Jaspers was created by the Chaos Wave. It eroded the dimensional walls within Otherworld causing all reality, all order within to not make sense, to become chaotic. As such amid that chaos a Fury/Jaspers merge was created.Not through Wandas doing, but through the Chaos Wave she unwittingly set off by creating a dimensional tear by accident as she warped reality and brought about House of M on Earth as stated.
Wanda wins
More "ambiguous" scans yall:
More conclusive PROOF that the Chaos Wave was Wanda's Power.
(from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 Saturnyne bio)
"She (Saturnyne) was later present on Otherworld when Dimension-616
was Engulfed in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp ...
Saturnyne showed little hesitation in suggesting destroying 616 to Prevent the Warp SPREADING"
Here is that scene On Panel,
Satynyne talking about the Chaos Wave or as the Official Bio puts it,
the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp:
"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing Devastation to Branes ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING ...
Sparing Yours condemns the REST"
Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp
hum
Originally posted by TricksterPriest
❌ 👇 Sorry GS, but you just killed your credibility by trying to downgrade Jaspers.
I bet you didnt know that Roma and Captain Britain refer to Jaspers' warp as just being global did you?
I bet you didnt know the handbooks state that Jaspers warp was only global did you?
Look into matters yourself, dont just swallow what you're told is happening in scans. 😬
Originally posted by Mr Master
✅"You're smart, we should debate sometime"
Isn't that the most condenscending crock of shit you ever seen?
If you agree with him you're smart,
if you disagree, you're an ignorant child or one of Mr M's cronies.
😆
I commended him for a good post and said we should debate. Not condescending at all. Stop trying to make something out of nothing in an attempt to turn the tide. Do that through debating. 😉
Not the case at all.
She says theres a trans temporal tsunami and then goes on to say APPARENTLY there was an alteration:
apparently
A adverb
1 obviously, evidently, manifestly, patently, apparently, plainly
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/apparently
i.e theres a trans temporal tsunami, so quite clearly there has been an alteration thats breached the dimensional walls.
Romas said she couldnt ascertain the cause of the global alteration. She said nothing about not knowing what caused the wave. She says the wave was clearly caused by the alteration breaching the dimensional walls.
The Chaos Wave was nothing but Wandas reality warp seeping through the breach and reacting with the reality beyond, thats what caused it. That is why the future "Exiles" were told to end the problem, the breach needed to be sealed or the affected reality (Earth 616) would have to be destroyed to stop the warped effects Wanda had put in place from seeping through.
Wandas application of power to 616 changed reality to her wishes. She bended the rules of reality to manifest a desired effect. Since when was Wandas reality warping within 616 shown as a reality collapsing wave of destruction? 😕
Did the chaos wave go around to other realities converting them to Wandas HOM vision or was it something she started which unbeknownst to her spun out of control with no exertion, maintenance or even awareness from her? 😕
A reality warp is an area of space/time where a reality manipulator has manipulated the laws of causality to bring about their wishes. When Wanda accidentally tore a hole in the dimensional wall of 616 this area of warped reality spilled through and reacted with the reality beyond, sparking off the chaos wave. Wandas reality warp spilling through and out of control without her knowledge and without her powering or maintaining it.
Its like Storm creating a strong wind in a localized area for a specific effect and then not bothering to monitor it. The weather pattern expands without Storm there to determines its path and then it builds up power becoming a tornado, thereby transforming into something different than what Storm manifested, destroying land and buildings for miles around and beyond the localized area Storm had created it within. Unless Storm on panel had shown she could create such a tornado and use it in the way it performed without her involvement then such a tornado couldnt be used in versus matches as if it was part of her repertoire and it certainly couldnt be described as a direct manifestation of her power when what it was in the beginning when she was monitoring and controlling things was of a totally different nature and had a totally different effect within her localized area than it had on the surrounding environment it destroyed.
I think you get my drift.
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"
(from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 Saturnyne bio)
"She (Saturnyne) was later present on Otherworld when Dimension-616
was Engulfed in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp ...
Here is that scene On Panel,
Satynyne talking about the Chaos Wave or as the Official Bio puts it,
the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp:
"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing Devastation to Branes ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING ...
Sparing Yours condemns the REST"
thankyou
Nuff said.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
By a crack formed in reality as a result of Wanda warping Earth 616. Simple as.Roma and the handbooks stated Jaspers only actually warped the planet and yet the affects of that action were felt by the whole of reality.
In numerous scans ive posted, the scale of the warp is actually defined. It was global.
This scan and all of Mr Masters just show that there were bigger than global consequences. 😉
Actually I believe you both may be right.
Wanda warped reality twice.
The first time she did it, she may have just altered it on a global scale. Causing a trans-dimensional tsunami that threatened the omniverse.(That would prove GS's point) It eventually engulfed 616.
After the "No More mutants" fiasco she remade it a second time. This time from Mr Masters scans she warped/remade 616 and formed cracks across all of realities which allowed Shadow King back in.
The chaos wave which leaked across into other dimensions is referred to as the Scarlet Witchs reality warp because she was the one responsible for it, it was her actions which brought it about. That is made clear on panel. The fact that it is referred to as the Scarlet Witchs reality warp in the bios IS NOT evidence that she generated it directly or that she controlled it when ON PANEL she has no knowledge of it, makes no mention of it and its actually stated it was caused by a dimensional tear. The handbooks complement what occurs on panel, they are not a substitute for an on panel account. On panel you are completely unsupported. As such you or anyone are completely unjustified in presenting it as something that is within her repertoire to just conjure up to use as a weapon.
As stated by Roma the wave was caused by the dimensional tear:
apparently
A adverb
1 obviously, evidently, manifestly, patently, apparently, plainly
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/apparently
i.e theres a trans temporal tsunami, so quite clearly there has been an alteration thats breached the dimensional walls.
She gives the reason for the chaos waves existence as being the dimensional tear that the Scarlet Witch unknowingly caused.
NOWHERE in the House of M main title is the chaos wave mentioned. In no comic title ever or any official publication ever is the Scarlet Witch shown to have directly generated, let alone controlled the dimensional wall eroding phenomenon that was the chaos wave.
NOWHERE in 616 is the Scarlet Witchs reality warping powers shown to manifest as a dimensional wall eroding anomaly. In 616 her powers allowed her to reshape the Earth to fit her vision. The chaos wave didnt alter causalitys laws to bring about someones vision, it eroded dimensional walls causing the reality within to collapse into chaos, causing nothing to make sense:
The wave was of a different nature to the Scarlet Witchs manifestation of power in 616 and it had a different effect on reality.
Unless you can show a chaos wave-like manifestation in 616 during house of M generated by Wanda which did the same things as the chaos wave and was of the same scale, then you are once again completely unjustified in presenting the wave as something Wanda is capable of generating directly and controlling when:
a) Its of a different nature to her manifestations of power in 616 and had different affects
b) Its not mentioned in any Marvel publication as being directly generated or controlled by Wanda ( The Chaos Wave being called Wandas reality warp in a handbook as aforementioned is insufficient as it can simply be referring to the fact that she brought it about which IS the case)
c) Roma the omniversal guardian actually states that the Chaos Wave was clearly the result of a global alteration ripping a hole in 616's dimensional wall.
With all that in mind whilst the wave was brought about by Scarlet Witch as a side effect of her reality warping in 616 as illustrated clearly by Roma, there is no evidence on panel that she could generate the wave at will to use as a weapon. Also even if she could the wave was only a threat if it was allowed to run riot. If confronted it could easily be stopped by merely closing the dimensional tear that spawned the wave:
As such wielding the wave certainly doesnt make someone above the abstracts as when confronted directly it takes far less than abstract level power to stop it and it certainly doesnt make Wanda beyond the abstracts not only for that reason, but also because theres no evidence she generated it directly or controlled it anyway.
sign23
The FACTS!
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"
With the line "No More mutants",
Wanda managed to shift Reality causing cracks across "ALL" Realities.
Allowing the Shadow King to slip back into the 616 universe.
Balasco from his Realm sees Two siblings (Magneto & Wanda)
"Force ALL of Reality to CHANGE"
"She changed the World once huh?"
"Yes, ... but She Altered ALL of Reality"
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Actually I believe you both may be right.
Wanda warped reality twice.The first time she did it, she may have just altered it on a global scale. Causing a trans-dimensional tsunami that threatened the omniverse.(That would prove GS's point)
After the "No More mutants" fiasco she remade it a second time. This time from Mr Masters scans she warped/remade 616 and formed cracks across all of realities which allowed Shadow King back in.
The second time she warped reality is in reference to the "No More Mutants" event. That was her warping reality for the second time, ending house of M but reverting reality to its previous status with the exception of a dramatically reduced mutant population.
Still valid.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
All of your statements were ambiguous and open to interpretation, not one of them mentioned the scale of the warp, my evidence defines it as global, restricts it to Earth 616. That plus the fact that on panel, we only ever saw her warp Earth 616 says alot 🙁Please find some evidence actually defining the scale, or give it a rest kid 😉
😄
"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"
(from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 Saturnyne bio)
"She (Saturnyne) was later present on Otherworld when Dimension-616
was Engulfed in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp ...
Here is that scene On Panel,
Satynyne talking about the Chaos Wave or as the Official Bio puts it,
the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp:
"Your Dimension is a Cancer, bringing Devastation to Branes ALL ALONG the SIDEREAL STRING ...
Sparing Yours condemns the REST"
There's NO getting around this, agenda man.
The last big post of mine deals with that. You are a notorious reposter im afraid, so all i had to do was go to the thread where you posted a virtually identical argument and then i just quoted myself. 🙂
You never did counter my points back then. Back then, just like you are now you just repost the same argument again. Youre missing a step mate. 😬
The argument is over the scale of Wandas HOM reality warp. Ive posted scans stating point blank it was global.
The opposition has posted scans with ambiguous statements which can be interpreted to favour either of our arguments. On top of that he unfortunately has no on panel scan whatsoever which actually defines the scale of the warp as anything but global.
Thats enough for today.
Nite nite folks. 😄
