HOM Wanda vs MJJ vs Hyperstorm

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The opposition has posted scans with ambiguous statements which can be interpreted to favour either of our arguments. On top of that he unfortunately has no on panel scan whatsoever which actually defines the scale of the warp as anything but global.

"ambiguous?"

"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"

(from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 Saturnyne bio)

"She (Saturnyne) was later present on Otherworld when Dimension-616

was Engulfed in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp ...

You have to force your eyes to read something other than,

when Dimension-616

was Engulfed in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp

🙂

More "ambiguity" yall: 😆

Wanda was the CAUSE of the Chaos Wave, that Roma could Not Ascertain

Wanda was Generating the Chaos Wave.

Wanda was Driving the Chaos Wave into other Realities, like when it hit OtherWorld:

"it is the End ... of ALL that is ... of ALL that will Ever be"

THIS SAME Chaos Wave brought back Jaspers 616 from another Plane of Reality:

THIS SAME Chaos Wave is referred to as "Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"

in the Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe v5 2006.

In THREE separate Bios

1. "During the Scarlet Witch's 'House of M' Reality Warp, Jaspers Reformed alive merged with the Fury"

(excerpt from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe)

2. "Mad Jim Jaspers has also returned, brought back to life by the Scarlet Witch's recent Reality Warp"

And as I presented above, it was the Chaos Wave that manifested Jaspers 616 from another Plane. (he was dead)

3. Wanda gave Layla the power to "Perceive Divergent Realities"

"Layla showed Cage glimpses of his life prior to the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp"

I ask myself the same thing yall,

where's the ambiguity? shrug

And yet still more "ambiguous" blah blah blah ...

"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"

With the line "No More mutants",

Wanda managed to shift Reality causing cracks across "ALL" Realities.

Allowing the Shadow King to slip back into the 616 universe.

Balasco from his Realm sees Two siblings (Magneto & Wanda)

"Force ALL of Reality to CHANGE"

"She changed the World once huh?"

"Yes, ... but She Altered ALL of Reality"

dontgetit

Originally posted by TricksterPriest
Sorry GS,

but you just killed your credibility by trying to downgrade Jaspers.

✅

Originally posted by LORDSIDIOUS01
Wanda wins

I can see her or Jaspers taking it.

Originally posted by Soljer
Wanda and Jaspers both seem to have warped reality on a greater scale than global....

Meh.

👆

good job mr m thumbup1 theres no doubt wanda warped the universe

..

Originally posted by Mr Master
"ambiguous?"

[B]"She's starting to REMAKE Reality 616... again"

[/B]

In those same Exiles issues it was stated as i've shown that the amount of reality 616 that she warped was actually just the Earth.

Exiles 72

"The House of M reality has once again been revised. The Exiles were forced to withdraw leaving Beak and Angel to face, whatever fate has befallen EARTH 616"

This global scale reference came AFTER your scan and it highlights how ambiguous your "reality 616" quote is. The amount of reality 616 isnt defined in your scan from Exiles 71. It is a statement open to interpretation, understand that. My scan from Exiles 72 verifies what interpretation is correct, she directly applied GLOBAL changes.

Originally posted by Mr Master
(from the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe 2006 Saturnyne bio)

"She (Saturnyne) was later present on Otherworld [B]when Dimension-616

was Engulfed in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp ...[/B]

Reality 616 was engulfed by Wandas reality warp. Its just a shame for your argument that it was only Earth 616 as defined by the Exiles comics your scans come from and by Roma the omniversal guardian with her reference to a "global alteration" That same instance is the one the handbook refers to when it says "dimension 616 was engulfed" and on panel, the reality warp was stated to be global. Your evidence provides the locale, mine the scale directly affected.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You have to force your eyes to read something other than,

[B]when Dimension-616

was Engulfed in the Scarlet Witch's Reality Warp

🙂 [/B]

Dealt with.

Originally posted by Smoki
good job mr m thumbup1 theres no doubt wanda warped the universe

So says Mr M. 🙄 😂

Valid as ever 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The chaos wave which leaked across into other dimensions is referred to as the Scarlet Witchs reality warp because she was the one responsible for it, it was her actions which brought it about. That is made clear on panel. The fact that it is referred to as the Scarlet Witchs reality warp in the bios IS NOT evidence that she generated it directly or that she controlled it when ON PANEL she has no knowledge of it, makes no mention of it and its actually stated it was caused by a dimensional tear. The handbooks complement what occurs on panel, they are not a substitute for an on panel account. On panel you are completely unsupported. As such you or anyone are completely unjustified in presenting it as something that is within her repertoire to just conjure up to use as a weapon.

As stated by Roma the wave was caused by the dimensional tear:

[B]apparently
A adverb
1 obviously, evidently, manifestly, patently, apparently, plainly

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/apparently

i.e theres a trans temporal tsunami, so quite clearly there has been an alteration thats breached the dimensional walls.

She gives the reason for the chaos waves existence as being the dimensional tear that the Scarlet Witch unknowingly caused.

NOWHERE in the House of M main title is the chaos wave mentioned. In no comic title ever or any official publication ever is the Scarlet Witch shown to have directly generated, let alone controlled the dimensional wall eroding phenomenon that was the chaos wave.

NOWHERE in 616 is the Scarlet Witchs reality warping powers shown to manifest as a dimensional wall eroding anomaly. In 616 her powers allowed her to reshape the Earth to fit her vision. The chaos wave didnt alter causalitys laws to bring about someones vision, it eroded dimensional walls causing the reality within to collapse into chaos, causing nothing to make sense:

The wave was of a different nature to the Scarlet Witchs manifestation of power in 616 and it had a different effect on reality.

Unless you can show a chaos wave-like manifestation in 616 during house of M generated by Wanda which did the same things as the chaos wave and was of the same scale, then you are once again completely unjustified in presenting the wave as something Wanda is capable of generating directly and controlling when:

a) Its of a different nature to her manifestations of power in 616 and had different affects

b) Its not mentioned in any Marvel publication as being directly generated or controlled by Wanda ( The Chaos Wave being called Wandas reality warp in a handbook as aforementioned is insufficient as it can simply be referring to the fact that she brought it about which IS the case)

c) Roma the omniversal guardian actually states that the Chaos Wave was clearly the result of a global alteration ripping a hole in 616's dimensional wall.

With all that in mind whilst the wave was brought about by Scarlet Witch as a side effect of her reality warping in 616 as illustrated clearly by Roma, there is no evidence on panel that she could generate the wave at will to use as a weapon. Also even if she could the wave was only a threat if it was allowed to run riot. If confronted it could easily be stopped by merely closing the dimensional tear that spawned the wave:

As such wielding the wave certainly doesnt make someone above the abstracts as when confronted directly it takes far less than abstract level power to stop it and it certainly doesnt make Wanda beyond the abstracts not only for that reason, but also because theres no evidence she generated it directly or controlled it anyway. [/B]

Originally posted by Soljer
Wanda and Jaspers both seem to have warped reality on a greater scale than global....

Meh.

On the surface it does, i agree completely. But when you throughly analyse the situation and you see that the HOM reality was restricted to Earth as stated and as far as we saw on panel, plus the fact that the Chaos Wave while being responsible for its emergence, wasnt actually a direct creation of Wandas, it all adds up to global.

The only scale defining references on panel state that the House of M reality was global. Alongside that you have ambiguous comments such as Wanda warped reality 616, Wandas warp engulfed 616. Those comments are all true, however they are open to interpretation and can be interpreted to support my argument. The opposition has no reference on panel whatsoever marking out the House of M reality warp to be anything but global.

Jaspers beats Wanda in my opinion, he effortlessly warped the globe, Wanda seemed less in control. Wanda hasnt been regarded on panel as a dimensional scale reality warper, Jaspers has. While that last point is inconclusive as it is just character opinion based on the prowess of an alternate universe counterpart (Jaspers 238) it helps to shape my opinion on the matter.

Jaspers, then Wanda, the Hyperstorm.