Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
How about you show something of relevance to Goku getting an actual win.There have been tons of forums on this topic..and Supermans on panel always demolishes Goku's on panel.
Let me guess..you're going to bring up some fanboy numbers for what on panel can't provide?
How's Superman going to even hurt someone who scoffs at planet exploding attacks and beings capable of destroying the Solar System. Keep in mind this is an AVERAGE showing for Goku?
Hell we can turn this into a feat fest in that Superman has better damage soak whereas Goku has MUCH better damage production but Superman still loses in that Goku has NO low showings (whereas Superman has quite a few noticeable ones).
Originally posted by illadelph12
His fighting skills aren't impressive compared to Superman???My views are based mainly on the cartoon (sadly), but I've got to say that I've seen on many, many, many occasions cartoon Goku fighting hand to hand at light speed either one on one or on a couple occasions against multiple opponents (the Ginyu Force). His fights usually end with energy attacks but they aren't that way for the full duration. The Kamehameha is usually the final blow. It's usually up close assault followed by machine gun chi blasts to more up close assault to someone getting punched into the ground creating a crater to more machine gun chi blasts to more up close combat to Goku delivering the money shot Kamehemeha. Now, I'm hoping we all watched the same cartoons. I'm confused. Goku ALWAYS engages in hand to hand combat and normally it's at such a high rate of speed it's unseen.
I haven't read all of the Manga admittedly so I can't speak on all of that.
I agree that heat vision would work (as I said above Supes would have to use ranged attacks). The question is whether it would hurt Goku. Goku has blocked many blasts before. I'm not sure what the properties of all the different chi blasts are (like temperature, energy signature, etc.), but it may not be outside the realm of possibility that a powered up (so SSJ2 or SSJ3) Goku with his aura around him could take heat vision blasts and be protected from them. It's really hard to say. I know Goku could take blasts from the androids and Cell.
As far as senses go, Goku can sense power levels from great distances as well as different dimensions and has telepathy in the cartoon, I'm not sure what he has in the Manga. He can't see or hear as well as Supes, that's not in question, but a 6'5" living solar battery is going to be kind of easy for him to track.
The only edges I give Supes are strength and durability. Goku can deliver a lot of damage though and it's been shown that Supes can succomb to physical abuse. It's not Goku's fists Supes would have to worry about the most though, it's the fists plus energy attacks in steady succession.
To be diplomatic I'd say 50:50, but I'd be putting my money on Goku.
Same here...long time no see ol' chum.
As far as I've seen...Goku can sense Chi energy...not other forms (similar to say what Mags, Eradicator, SS, or Superman himself could do) so he'd be fairly blind on that aspect since Superman doesn't really radiate chi like that.
Physically there is a huge difference...Goku would break his hands punching Superman. DBZ characters simply weren't created to fight characters with that type of insane durability straight up.
As for skill...Superman has used pressure points to paralyze Batman... a guy who recently beat Karate kid. He's also pulled out plenty of acrobatic maneuvers even without his powers and won in arena type tournament battles.
Speed wise...there is no comparison...IT (a nice way of saying teleportation) would be useless in this match...especially since it requires the DBZ clan to lock into a source of chi.
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
How's Superman going to even hurt someone who scoffs at planet exploding attacks and beings capable of destroying the Solar System. Keep in mind this is an AVERAGE showing for Goku?
LOL @ goku scoffing at planet exploding attacks and destroying solar systems. This is the fanboyish crap that keeps DBZ off these forums.
I'm willing to call your bluff though. If it's an "average" showing...then there must be TONS of proof laying around in terms of scans and material?
We're waiting.
Isn't chi simply life energy? In Dragonball every living thing on Earth has chi. As a matter of fact, in one episode all the living creatures of earth gave chi to Goku to drop a spirit bomb on Kid Buu. I'm pretty sure Supes has a lot of life energy. Whether it's called chi or not a being that powerful would have a large aura and Goku has an affinity with life force.
And also:
As for skill...Superman has used pressure points to paralyze Batman... a guy who recently beat Karate kid. He's also pulled out plenty of acrobatic maneuvers even without his powers and won in arena type tournament battles.
We both know eachothers debating styles pretty well by now, so I shouldn't have to say it. I'm not going to call you out for pulling this, but we both know that's a very hollow point to make Av. You're saying Superman applying pressure points on Batman, who had a recent good showing against an 'amnesiac' Karate Kid, is valid for comparison to Goku? We both know the degrees of separation on that are staggering my friend. I'll just leave it at that.
I think I'm done with this topic anyway. It will be closed soon anyway.
I'm surprised you didn't enter the tournament Av.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
LOL @ goku scoffing at planet exploding attacks and destroying solar systems. This is the fanboyish crap that keeps DBZ off these forums.I'm willing to call your bluff though. If it's an "average" showing...then there must be TONS of proof laying around in terms of scans and material?
We're waiting.
1.) So you're telling me if First Form Frieza hit end of series Goku with the same thing he hit the Planet Vegeta with, it'd register? This is a planet buster.
Hell I'll do you one better
Vegeta was stated capable of destroying Earth in the Saiyan Saga.
After being powered up, multiple times, he hit Frieza with all he had and all it did was make him smile. By the end of the series, Goku, needless to say, is way more powerful then this incarnation of Frieza.
2.) Vegeta (remember DBZ A>B>C logic=correct) has scoffed off Cell beings and dismissed Gohan (during the Buu saga btw) as weak, Cell level beings are Solar System buster level.
3.) Kid Buu PLAYFULLY destroyed the Earth. Goku is stated as being more powerful then him in SSJ3 form (he lost because he wanted Vegeta to get a crack at him). This is ignoring the 10 years of training he received after the event where the skies the limit to what level he reached (I like to put him at SSJ Gotenks level mysefl).
Originally posted by Dangerous
People keep saying superman can take planet destroying attacks...The DBZ characters have destroyed planets from early in the series.
Now their attacks are many classes beyond earthdestruction, they just dont have the EXPLOSIONS to make it look like more.
Calling Bullshit.
The earliest was near the end of the Frieza saga , whom had to go directly to the core of the planet to due so.
Trunk's quote is useless, we also have in-fiction people saying Sentry beat Galactus and that Spidey can kill Hulk. Remember kiddie-winks , just because someone says something doesn't necessarily make it so.
Other then that we have Buu who's so hideously overpowered it's almost insane , then again he's the final villain so it's understandable.
Originally posted by Joey Stacks
1.) So you're telling me if First Form Frieza hit end of series Goku with the same thing he hit the Planet Vegeta with, it'd register? This is a planet buster.Hell I'll do you one better
Vegeta was stated capable of destroying Earth in the Saiyan Saga.
After being powered up, multiple times, he hit Frieza with all he had and all it did was make him smile. By the end of the series, Goku, needless to say, is way more powerful then this incarnation of Frieza.
2.) Vegeta (remember DBZ A>B>C logic=correct) has scoffed off Cell beings and dismissed Gohan as weak, Cell level beings are Solar System buster level.
3.) Kid Buu PLAYFULLY destroyed the Earth.
So you have no real proof then? Just a lot of hearsay.
Come on dawgz! There must be plenty of proof around somewhere.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
It's all hearsay...where are the actual scans/showings for this.Remember...he claimed this was commonplace for Goku.
There should be PLENTY of on panel evidence then outside of hearsay.
A lot of characters BENEATH Goku has impressive showings, which is shown commonplace for DBZ characters.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
So you have no real proof then? Just a lot of hearsay.Come on dawgz! There must be plenty of proof around somewhere.
I just gave you the facts.
Vegeta being able to blow away the Earth beginning of series? Stated in book.
Vegeta not being able to phase Frieza? Shown on panel.
Frieza destroying Planet Vegeta? Stated in book.
Kid Buu playfully destroying Earth? Shown on panel.
Cell being able to destroy the Solar System? Stated in book.
Vegeta mocking Gohan for not taking out a Cell level being? Shown on panel
Goku being stronger then Kid Buu? Stated in book
You want to deny these facts? That's just proof of you not having a grasp of the characters you are arguing.