The trouble with atheism

Originally posted by inimalist
there are much better explanations for that phenomenon

goooooooooooo psychology!

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/Articles/si91nde.html

What's really interesting is that there is this very potent hallucinogenic tryptamine called DMT which is produced by the human body. Some have theorized that NDE's (and some aspects of dreaming actually) may be caused by this particular molecule.

Unfortunately it is illegal to use when derived from outside sources (which is extremely weird imo) but the hallucinations can be so intense as to be "true" hallicinations. Unlike the hallucinations one would usually experience with LSD or psilocybin these are more akin to the kind you experience with belladonna poisoning. That is to say, you cannot distinguish reality from hallucination.

Originally posted by Ytse
What's really interesting is that there is this very potent hallucinogenic tryptamine called DMT which is produced by the human body. Some have theorized that NDE's (and some aspects of dreaming actually) may be caused by this particular molecule.

Unfortunately it is illegal to use when derived from outside sources (which is extremely weird imo) but the hallucinations can be so intense as to be "true" hallicinations. Unlike the hallucinations one would usually experience with LSD or psilocybin these are more akin to the kind you experience with belladonna poisoning. That is to say, you cannot distinguish reality from hallucination.

we produce something chemically similar to DMT, but there is no real research that shows it plays any role in hallucinations or what not. It might have something to do with dreaming, though now that I'm thinking about it, possibly with our ability to test reality (ie, when we dream outlandish things don't seemed far fetched).

There are brain areas that we can use synthetic drugs to activate that will make a person have an out of body experience, which pretty much proves that they are a construct of our subjective experience and not real. NDEs are best explained by localization of function and anatomy rather than through neuro chemistry.

And with most drugs, a lot of the hallucinations and other things of that nature come from expectation. I took a class about drugs this year, and my best analysis is that the people who have done the research thus far (with some notable exceptions) have no personal experience with the substances. Add that to the fact that many of the underlying neural mechanisms behind hallucinations are not yet understood (which is something I would love to use psychadellics to study) it becomes very difficult to clasify the way a specific drug will affect an individual, until the individual is experienced enough with the drug to remove some of the more cognitive issues associated with the high. This explains the huge variance in behaviour in casual and first time users of a substance versus long term users.

Originally posted by inimalist
we produce something chemically similar to DMT

Is it not the same molecule? Everything I've read says it's endogenous.

But yes, no conclusive evidence as to why exactly the body produces it. Interesting to ponder though.

I'm pretty interested in the use of drugs as entheogens myself.

Originally posted by Ytse
Is it not the same molecule? Everything I've read says it's endogenous.

But yes, no conclusive evidence as to why exactly the body produces it. Interesting to ponder though.

I'm pretty interested in the use of drugs as entheogens myself.

why on earth would it possibly be the same molecule?

Originally posted by inimalist
why on earth would it possibly be the same molecule?

I'm not sure what you mean by "why."

🙁

Originally posted by Ytse
I'm not sure what you mean by "why."

🙁

well, for there to be identical molecules produced by humans and plants, there would have to be a reason for it. Were this "DMT" so important to the function of life that it was necessary in all organisms, pretty much the only way one would end up with identical molecules produced by plants and mammals, it would serve as much more than a fringe curiosity in science.

Also, with almost all drugs, the effect comes from a similar chemical interacting with the receptors in the synapse to modify the function of the neurotrasnmitters. THC only makes you high because there are cannaboid receptors in the brain. LSD and psilopsybin only trip you out because they are similar to seretonin receptors.

Its pretty much how all drugs work.

Originally posted by inimalist
Its pretty much how all drugs work.

I'm no chemist. In fact I'm not fond of it at all. So, perhaps I'm misunderstanding them when they say its endogenous.

well, there is an endogenous chemical that is very similar to DMT which the chemical DMT affects. I could be wrong, but im 98% sure I'm not.

I know exactly what you are talking about, and its just a way that shaman crazies try to justify their experiences with drugs. For some reason they think it would prove interconectedness with all life and that their hallucinations are more factual if it is endogenous. I believe they also think it may be safer for those reasons.

Originally posted by inimalist
[B]psilopsybin/B]

Originally posted by Nellinator
Its usually easier to just call them shrooms. Most people don't know that.

ya, that is true

but i like to show off as much as possible

Too many psych classes for you...

Speaking of which... did you ever have to learn the difference in THC content in different types of marijuana? I thought that was the funniest thing I ever had to learn in psych.

Originally posted by Nellinator
Too many psych classes for you...

Speaking of which... did you ever have to learn the difference in THC content in different types of marijuana? I thought that was the funniest thing I ever had to learn in psych.

Well, tell us. You might need to open a new thread, but let me know. I never took that class.

😆

Normal marijuana = 3%
Sinsemilla = 7.5%
Hashish = 13.6%
Hash Oil = 16%
BC Bud = 20%
Dronabinol = 100%

Cannabis indica is a shorter cannabis plant with higher THC content and Cannabis ruberalis is a taller cannabis plant with lower THC. I had to know all that in introductory psychology back in my day (well, not percentages, but the order of potentcy).

Me lika Marijuana.

Ever heard of gynecomastia?

You guys should look up a book called Cannabis: A history by Martin Booth 🙂

Your percentages are all wrong as there is no universal amount of thc content for cannabis as there are so many different strains. 3% is a laugh, you would find more thc in soapbar hash. Hashish as you call it can range any where from 20-60% which I don't understand as its 100% made of trychomes or what ever they called. No idea what dronabinol is but I once smoked this stuff with a 99.7% thc content...

Never even knew the % content of what I smoked.

I guess it was high though, being in Amsterdam and such.

Originally posted by Magee
Your percentages are all wrong as there is no universal amount of thc content for cannabis as there are so many different strains. 3% is a laugh, you would find more thc in soapbar hash. Hashish as you call it can range any where from 20-60% which I don't understand as its 100% made of trychomes or what ever they called. No idea what dronabinol is but I once smoked this stuff with a 99.7% thc content...

Originally posted by Nellinator
😆

Normal marijuana = 3%
Sinsemilla = 7.5%
Hashish = 13.6%
Hash Oil = 16%
BC Bud = 20%
Dronabinol = 100%

Cannabis indica is a shorter cannabis plant with higher THC content and Cannabis ruberalis is a taller cannabis plant with lower THC. I had to know all that in introductory psychology back in my day (well, not percentages, but the order of potentcy).