The trouble with atheism

Originally posted by Ytse
Huh?

Most people can't sum their beliefs up in one word anyway.

I agree with that, and anyone who can isn't worth listening to 🙂

my point was about language and usage. Sure, in its most academic and proper form, the prefix "a" followed by "theism" is a lack of belief in God. And in that way, all people who aren't of the specific religion you are speaking of are atheists, and I guess you could throw agnostics in there to.

However, when you get into the way that the term atheist and agnostic are used in society, especially within the groups who identify with it, it has a much more conventional and social meaning. Atheist is belief in no god, agnostic is undetermined.

I get your point, and I understand linguistic purism, but its not my sacred cow. (maybe the line between agnostic and atheist is 😛)

Originally posted by inimalist
Sure, in its most academic and proper form, the prefix "a" followed by "theism" is a lack of belief in God. And in that way, all people who aren't of the specific religion you are speaking of are atheists, and I guess you could throw agnostics in there to.

Not exactly. I don't think the validity of the belief really matters here. I don't believe there is such a being as the god of the Quran but I still count Muslims as theists rather than atheists because they believe it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
What do you think of the views of this progam? This program is called The Trouble with Atheism.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLpx2nFTc0

I think this video makes a lot of flawed assumptions.

It suggests religion is somthing that is conditioned, something I'm not willing to back up. I don't have statistics, but its not a view on religion I've really heard before.

The idea that Atheism is a religion is completely proposterous. Even worse, They shoot a picture of Darwin and Origin of species as if this actually lends creidibility to atheism. Sorry, thats complete bullshit.

THe association of atheism with communism. Atheism has never been imposed as a theocracy. There has been no "athiest regime." None has ever been founded. England is more of an athiestic regime than the USSR.

Athiesm never tells anyone how to live thier lives. where did that idea come from?

And, just because you can interview a bunch of crazies, doesn't mean you have a point. This video is simply mass-produced propoganda. Real analysis comes from research and philosophy, of which I saw none in this video.

LOTS of people are crazy. Justbecause there are crazy athiests doesn't mean that their lunacy is caused by athiesm.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, this video creates a false choice. It assumes that because you are athiest, you are against all religions (or vice versa). This is simply not the case. Most people in the world can seperate thier religious belief from others. Athiests do the same.

Originally posted by Ytse
Not exactly. I don't think the validity of the belief really matters here. I don't believe there is such a being as the god of the Quran but I still count Muslims as theists rather than atheists because they believe it.

😛

I would too

You can just get really bogged down in the specifics of language is all I'm sayin'

Originally posted by ThePittman
It maybe a nicer response to “their wrong” but for me it is a correct one. 😉

Thats a matter of opinion.

Originally posted by ThePittman

Just because something “can” be turned into a religion doesn’t mean that it is. With the example of the toothpick it will always be and forever be a toothpick designed to pick stuff out of your teeth and just because some people think it is the best thing in the world and want to make it a holy item doesn’t change the fact that it is a toothpick.

Thats a matter of opinion. Furthermore why is Islam an example of montheism and Communism not an example of atheism?

Originally posted by Alliance

The idea that Atheism is a religion is completely proposterous. Even worse, They shoot a picture of Darwin and Origin of species as if this actually lends creidibility to atheism. Sorry, thats complete bullshit.

Thats a matter of opinion thats like saying death metal isnt music.

Originally posted by Alliance

THe association of atheism with communism. Atheism has never been imposed as a theocracy. There has been no "athiest regime." None has ever been founded. England is more of an athiestic regime than the USSR.

Ok please explain how Islam is an example of Monotheism and then explain how Communism is NOT an example of Atheism.

Originally posted by Alliance

Athiesm never tells anyone how to live thier lives. where did that idea come from?

Communism for starters.

Originally posted by Alliance

And, just because you can interview a bunch of crazies, doesn't mean you have a point. This video is simply mass-produced propoganda. Real analysis comes from research and philosophy, of which I saw none in this video.

Oh I see so because they have a different opinion to you there crazy. Arrogant? You also think Buddhists reject violence and chat bullocks about Islam but oh well.

Originally posted by Alliance

LOTS of people are crazy. Justbecause there are crazy athiests doesn't mean that their lunacy is caused by athiesm.

Well ok if you apply that to religon as well you would be consistent.

Originally posted by Alliance

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly, this video creates a false choice. It assumes that because you are athiest, you are against all religions (or vice versa). This is simply not the case. Most people in the world can seperate thier religious belief from others. Athiests do the same.

it doesnt create a false choice your reading too much into it.

Look, your arguments are generally bullshit, how can you not see that. It is so blatantly obvious.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Look, your arguments are generally bullshit, how can you not see that. It is so blatantly obvious.

Yeah of course anybody who disgrees with you is an idiot. Im an idiot, Rod is an idiot all those other people who think atheism is a belief are idiots as well. It would sound less "facist" if you said it was a matter of opinion.

Example of monotheism?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah of course anybody who disgrees with you is an idiot. Im an idiot, Rod is an idiot all those other people who think atheism is a belief are idiots as well. It would sound less "facist" if you said it was a matter of opinion.

Example of monotheism?

Don't you see that all you are saying is "That's a matter of opinion", it is not...there are fundamental differences between my and your argument, yours being based on idiotic and childish observation, while mine is actually comparing rationally.

Communism is not in the same way an atheistic system as Islam is a theist one. Every ****ing person that can halfway think would tell you that you are thinking wrong.

I have no clue why you do it either, apparently you are not conditioned to believe in a certain Religion, but still, you are not able to apply the most fundamental parts of logic to a topic. It is quite ridiculous to converse with you, as you do not understand the difference between your opinion and facts that are provided to show that your opinion is inaccurate.

And as I said before, Atheism is a belief. That sentence again shows your inabilitiy to comprehend what is put forward to you. You are a disgrace to the traditions of intellectual discourse.

An example of monotheism would be the Protestant Christian faith.

And maybe it would sound less fascist, but who cares, I am actually right, you may have an opinion, but whether it is correct is not a matter of it. You are wrong. As has been shown countless times. Just accept it...and don't forget...suicide can be the answer.

Originally posted by Bardock42

An example of monotheism would be the Protestant Christian faith.

Ok so why is it an example of montheism??? Islam is an example of montheism as well.....why are these examples of montheism????

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok so why is it an example of montheism??? Islam is an example of montheism as well.....why are these examples of montheism????

Because:

mon·o·the·ism
–noun

the doctrine or belief that there is only one God.

Both Islam and Protestants believe in only one God.
There, they fit the definition.

Not that it matters, cause no one says that that Islamists kill because of Monotheism, but because of their Religion.

Originally posted by Bardock42
#

Because:

mon·o·the·ism
–noun

the doctrine or belief that there is only one God.

Both Islam and Protestants believe in only one God.
There, they fit the definition.

Not that it matters, cause no one says that that Islamists kill because of Monotheism, but because of their Religion.

Yeah you dont say they kill because of montheism thats just semantics, at the end of the day Communism is an example of atheism because one of its major "pillars" is atheism. Whatever you want to call Communism an ideology a belief system....WHATEVER....it is an atheistic example of a religon.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Yeah you dont say they kill because of montheism thats just semantics, at the end of the day Communism is an example of atheism because one of its major "pillars" is atheism. Whatever you want to call Communism an ideology a belief system....WHATEVER....it is an atheistic example of a religon.

At the end of the day you can still not think

Communism relates to Atheism in a very, very different manner than Islam relates to Organized Religion that tells to kill.

Not sure how you don't see that, it even relates differently to theism, but again, why does it matter.

THINK. GOD DAMMIT, THINK FOR ONCE. I beg you.

Originally posted by Bardock42
At the end of the day you can still not think

Communism relates to Atheism in a very, very different manner than Islam relates to Organized Religion that tells to kill.

Not sure how you don't see that, it even relates differently to theism, but again, why does it matter.

THINK. GOD DAMMIT, THINK FOR ONCE. I beg you.

No no no maybe I am thinking maybe your arrogant because there are lots of people who would agree with me. They are all idiots.....

At the end of the day Islam is an example of monthiesm because it main pillar is belief in one God.

Communism is an example of atheism because its main pillar is athiesm. Whats there to think about??????

I should just agree with you eventhough your contradicting yourself.

Communism states that religon is the opuim of the masses and should be got rid of...whats the problem...you splitting hairs?

So lets get this straight. Islam is a monthiestic religon because its amin belief is one god and it tells people to kill.

Communism is an atheistic belief system and tells people that religon should be gotten rid of but theres a difference?

Furthermore not everbody on this forum thinks that religon causes people to kill.

Originally posted by Alfheim
No no no maybe I am thinking maybe your arrogant because there are lots of people who would agree with me. They are all idiots.....

Yes they are, in this aspect they are. Every single one of them.

Originally posted by Alfheim
At the end of the day Islam is an example of monthiesm because it main pillar is belief in one God.

No one denied that.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Communism is an example of atheism because its main pillar is athiesm. Whats there to think about??????

It does not have a belief in God, but it is not motivated by the lack of belief in God. I mean, Christ, a lamp is atheist. Communisms main pillar is NOT atheism. That is bullshit. Every scientist on the subject would tell you, but you would not understand, cause you think your wrong opinion is just as valid as facts. Stupid.

Originally posted by Alfheim
I should just agree with you eventhough your contradicting yourself.

I am not, you are just too dumb (fact) to understand what is actually happening. You can't even follow a conversation. But with one thing you are right, you should agree with me because I have reason and facts on my side.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Communism states that religon is the opuim of the masses and should be got rid of...whats the problem...you splitting hairs?

Marx stated that. Not communism, but it doesn't matter. One of the communist ideas is that Religion is bad, yes. What does it matter though? No atheist is saying certain Religions are bad because they are theistic. No one. You are again comparing incomparable things in your endless stupidity.

Originally posted by Alfheim
So lets get this straight. Islam is a monthiestic religon because its amin belief is one god and it tells people to kill.

N-no. You moron. Islam is a monotheistic Religion because it is a " set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." and has as it's core belief that there is only one God.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Communism is an atheistic belief system and tells people that religon should be gotten rid of but theres a difference?

Y-yes. Communism is atheist because it has no belief in God (that's a negative...everything is atheist by default...but that doesn't matter) it is again the belief system part that makes the problems, just like it is with Religion. That's why no one blames Theism. You try to blame atheism, but it makes no sense. Are you sooo stupid? Really? OR are you just a freaking troll that is there to drive me crazy with his nonsense?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Furthermore not everbody on this forum thinks that religon causes people to kill.

What does that matter? It is a fact that Religion does in some cases cause people to kill.

Originally posted by Bardock42

What does that matter? It is a fact that Religion does in some cases cause people to kill.

Ok I tell you what maybe i'll answer your post later. Answer these questions.

1. Religon causes people to kill because for example the Bible and the Quran tell them to. Yes or No?

2. When Religon tells people to seek knowledge Religon doesnt cause people to be more scientific. Yes or No?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Thats a matter of opinion.

Thats a matter of opinion. Furthermore why is Islam an example of montheism and Communism not an example of atheism?

Thats a matter of opinion thats like saying death metal isnt music.

Ok please explain how Islam is an example of Monotheism and then explain how Communism is NOT an example of Atheism.

Communism for starters.

Oh I see so because they have a different opinion to you there crazy. Arrogant? You also think Buddhists reject violence and chat bullocks about Islam but oh well.

Well ok if you apply that to religon as well you would be consistent.

it doesnt create a false choice your reading too much into it.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok I tell you what maybe i'll answer your post later. Answer these questions.

1. Religon causes people to kill because for example the Bible and the Quran tell them to. Yes or No?

2. When Religon tells people to seek knowledge Religon doesnt cause people to be more scientific. Yes or No?

If it does I am very much in favour of it. I just don't feel that many Religions did that over the course of history.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ok I tell you what maybe i'll answer your post later. Answer these questions.

1. Religon causes people to kill because for example the Bible and the Quran tell them to. Yes or No?

2. When Religon tells people to seek knowledge Religon doesnt cause people to be more scientific. Yes or No?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Yes they are, in this aspect they are. Every single one of them.

No one denied that.

It does not have a belief in God, but it is not motivated by the lack of belief in God. I mean, Christ, a lamp is atheist. Communisms main pillar is NOT atheism. That is bullshit. Every scientist on the subject would tell you, but you would not understand, cause you think your wrong opinion is just as valid as facts. Stupid.

I am not, you are just too dumb (fact) to understand what is actually happening. You can't even follow a conversation. But with one thing you are right, you should agree with me because I have reason and facts on my side.

Marx stated that. Not communism, but it doesn't matter. One of the communist ideas is that Religion is bad, yes. What does it matter though? No atheist is saying certain Religions are bad because they are theistic. No one. You are again comparing incomparable things in your endless stupidity.

N-no. You moron. Islam is a monotheistic Religion because it is a " set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." and has as it's core belief that there is only one God.

Y-yes. Communism is atheist because it has no belief in God (that's a negative...everything is atheist by default...but that doesn't matter) it is again the belief system part that makes the problems, just like it is with Religion. That's why no one blames Theism. You try to blame atheism, but it makes no sense. Are you sooo stupid? Really? OR are you just a freaking troll that is there to drive me crazy with his nonsense?

What does that matter? It is a fact that Religion does in some cases cause people to kill.

Im going to read the Communist manifesto and then think this over. Apparently the Communist manifesto does say religon is the opium of the masses.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Well first off the example of the toothpick I was talking about is not a matter of opinion, the toothpick was never supposed to be a religion or religious icon, it was a simple tool to take food out of your teeth, the fact that people decided to make it something else doesn't change that.

You do know they have holy shit in India? So because you disagree with them shit isnt holy?

Originally posted by Bardock42
If it does I am very much in favour of it. I just don't feel that many Religions did that over the course of history.

Well I pretty much told you that there are bexamples in religous scripture that tell people to seek knowledge. Even if you want to admit tthat relgion can cause people to kill you have to agree that religon can cause people to seek knoweldge if the scriptures tell them to. Its just being consistent.

Originally posted by ThePittman
Both questions are phrased poorly and are leading but how they are phrased the answers would be no.

I'll go with that.

I am not denying that Religions can bring people to seek knowledge I am denying that Religion did that in an adequate amount. I feel the good Religion has done is far outweighed by the bad.

Im going to read the Communist manifesto and then think this over. Apparently the Communist manifesto does say religon is the opium of the masses.

Well, the communist Manifesto was written by Marx. But there is still a difference. Communism is a system that does anything because of atheism. It has different moral standards that cause it to do something. Islam is directly based on theism.

Basically the lack of God does not tell them to starve farmers in communism, while the belief in God tells them to kill non-believers.

I am being fair here, you on the other hand compare very different things.