Originally posted by GalacticStorm
There has never ever been an entity established in continuity called Multi Death.
Multi-Death is a term I use to differentiate an Aspect of Death (One Reality/Universe)
with her Totality (the concept on a Multiversal scale)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Beyonder called 616 Eternity a multiverse because of the countless dimensions that existed within his borders. In the same issue that Death was "killed" the abstracts that Beyonder was going to confront were said to be "universal":the handbook marks out the Death that Beyonder killed as being 616 Death:
Gibberish.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
a) Beyonder established in the Secret Wars 2 series that 616 Eternity was a multiverse of sorts in his own right
Bullshit
The Writer was talking about the Marvel Universe in it's entirety which = the Multiverse.
Beyonder even travelled across Realities in the very next page.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
b) the issue marks out the beings he was confronting as universal
Right, the LT is Universal. 😆
Beyonder was giving Dave a history lesson about the Universe,
he could have been referring to the Marvel Universe which is a Multiverse.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
c) The handbooks mark out the beings involved as universal
This is Death's 2006 Bio,
more than 26 YEARS after Beyonder was RETCONNED! 😂
I have personally posted that Bio, to prove that Beyonders feat of erasing Death was still legit,
but on a Universal scale after his retcon.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
It seems that it was just the universal 616 Death we all know and love that was affected and the multiversal reference came from this writers interpretation of 616 Eternity as a multiverse in his own right and not just a universe.
Gibberish.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
On top of that, for someone with supposedly a million times the power of the multiverse, he didnt have the power to bring back Death, without the consent of someone willing to die, therefore introducing the concept back into reality:"UMF!! Im doing my best.....It worked!!"
More gibberish.
Dave didn't help Beyonder in anyway,
so your initial statement was the usual agenda motivated rubbish.
Beyonder could not re-create MULTI-Death from nothingness,
so he figured by Killing something,
the Concept would exist anew, and it did, as soon as he killed Dave.
But it had NOTHING to do with Dave's willingness, Beyonder only asked Dave if he was willing,
because they were friends, and who would want to be "Death"? eer
So he asked him.
Originally posted by Utrigita
but Dave being willing must have had some effect els it wouldn't have been mentioned that Beyonder needed someone to accept the role as death.
All the will in the Multiverse was not going to re-create Death,
unless Beyonder was able to do so.
The bottom line is,
Beyonder had to Kill Dave himself, (whether Dave was willing or not)
in order to re-create the Totality of Death. (Multi-Death)
Originally posted by Utrigita
didn't Beyonder enpose certain limitations on himself???
Good point Utrigita,
the agenda minded always forget this, or purposely overlook it.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Multi-Death is a term I use to differentiate an Aspect of Death (One Reality/Universe)with her Totality (the concept on a Multiversal scale)
Where were you told on panel that there is an abstract called Multi Death?
Originally posted by Mr Master
Gibberish.
Nope. Beyonder on panel marks out 616 as a multiverse in its own right.
The handbook of 616 Death states it was her that was killed by Beyonder.
Originally posted by Mr Master
BullshitThe Writer was talking about the Marvel Universe in it's entirety which = the Multiverse.
Beyonder even travelled across Realities in the very next page.
Speculation on your part. Not good enough. You cannot presume to speak for the writer. The writer is talking from Beyonders perspective and as we know Beyonder came from outside and entered the 616 universe. So when it says Beyonder noticed an odd thing about our universe you have no justification to dictate to us that the caption meant anything but that.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Right, the LT is Universal. 😆Beyonder was giving Dave a history lesson about the Universe,
he could have been referring to the Marvel Universe which is a Multiverse.
Please have a read of evidence properly before commenting. While marking out the universal abstracts, it then says LT stands apart. Your attempt to mock and discredit that which you cannot effectively counter therefore flops.
Eternity 616 has been referred to as a multiverse on many occassions. In the scan where universal references are made, the abstracts of 616 are depicted. Later on in the comic as supported by the bios the abstracts of 616 are confronted. Your speculation and last ditch attempt to equate the term "Marvel universe" to "Marvel comics" is another flop for you.
Originally posted by Mr Master
This is Death's 2006 Bio,more than 26 YEARS after Beyonder was RETCONNED! 😂
I have personally posted that Bio, to prove that Beyonders feat of erasing Death was still legit,
but on a Universal scale after his retcon.
First off Beyonder was retconned in 1989 so allow me to correct your figure of 26 years and replace it with 18.
Secondly, whilst Beyonder was retconned, Death most certainly wasnt, so her status back then was the same as it is now....universal. It is the Death entity we're querying here and just to clarify, Beyonder came into the 616 universe and confronted the 616 abstracts. 616 Death has not been retconned. 616 Deaths bio refers to how it was her/he/it that was killed.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Gibberish.
Unfortunately not.
Originally posted by Mr Master
More gibberish.Dave didn't help Beyonder in anyway,
so your initial statement was the usual agenda motivated rubbish.
Beyonder could not re-create MULTI-Death from nothingness,
so he figured by Killing something,
the Concept would exist anew, and it did, as soon as he killed Dave.
But it had NOTHING to do with Dave's willingness, Beyonder only asked Dave if he was willing,
because they were friends, and who would want to be "Death"? eer
So he asked him.
As stated by Beyonder himself it was beyond his power to bring back Death. He then thought of a way around that power issue by saying he could do it if something was willing to die, therefore he needed another beings consent and therefore help to perform the feat.
The so called million time the power of the multiverse Beyonder.
The Beyonder who some would say impossibility is a foreign concept.
With Daves permission, Beyonder killed him, thereby reintroducing the concept of Death into reality.
What does Deaths handbook entry say on the matter?
"The Beyonders human friend Dave sacrificed his life so that Death could be recreated"
Yep. Thats about right.
Toodles 😱
Originally posted by Mr Master
All the will in the Multiverse was not going to re-create Death,unless Beyonder was able to do so.
The bottom line is,
Beyonder had to Kill Dave himself, (whether Dave was willing or not)
in order to re-create the Totality of Death. (Multi-Death)
Its stated point blank by Beyonder that he didnt have the power to bring back Death alone. He then says he could do it IF SOMEONE WAS WILLING to die.
Your post is therefore conclusively incorrect.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Where were you told on panel that there is an abstract called Multi Death?
Again:
Originally posted by Mr Master
Multi-Death is a term I use to differentiate an Aspect of Death (One Reality/Universe)with her Totality (the concept on a Multiversal scale)
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Nope. Beyonder on panel marks out 616 as a multiverse in its own right.
Nope,
Beyonder NEVER once mentioned 616, nice try.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The handbook of 616 Death states it was her that was killed by Beyonder.
The 2006 Bio,
18 Years after Beyonder's retcon.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Speculation on your part. Not good enough. You cannot presume to speak for the writer. The writer is talking from Beyonders perspective and as we know Beyonder came from outside and entered the 616 universe. So when it says Beyonder noticed an odd thing about our universe you have no justification to dictate to us that the caption meant anything but that.
Gibberish.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Eternity 616 has been referred to as a multiverse on many occassions. In the scan where universal references are made, the abstracts of 616 are depicted.
Reality 616 has NEVER been a Multiverse.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Later on in the comic as supported by the bios the abstracts of 616 are confronted.
Bullshit
There is NO Bio that states Beyonder confronted the 616 Abstracts.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Your speculation and last ditch attempt to equate the term "Marvel universe" to "Marvel comics" is another flop for you.
Not as great a flop as your claims that Phoenix is second to TOAA.
That "Phoenix is the life-force of Reality". 😂
That "LT was bowing to the Phoenix".
That "Phoenix is the Big Bang". (yet Phoenix has NEVER Created a Universe)
but that's surely not hyperbole ey?
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
First off Beyonder was retconned in 1989 so allow to correct your figure of 26 years and replace it with 18.Secondly, whilst Beyonder was retconned, Death most certainly wasnt, so her status back then was the same as it is now....universal. It is the Death entity we're querying here and just to clarify, Beyonder came into the 616 universe and confronted the 616 abstracts. 616 Death has not been retconned. 616 Deaths bio refers to how it was her/he/it that was killed.
blahblah
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
As stated by Beyonder himself it was beyond his power to bring back Death. He then thought of a way around that power issue by saying he could do it if something was willing to die, therefore he needed another beings consent and therefore help to perform the feat.The so called million time the power of the multiverse Beyonder.
The Beyonder who some would say impossibility is a foreign concept.
With Daves permission, Beyonder killed him, thereby reintroducing the concept of Death into reality.
What does Deaths handbook entry say on the matter?
"The Beyonders human friend Dave sacrificed his life so that Death could be recreated"
Addressed and handled.
Anywho,
I could care less about this silly argument.
No matter what, your agenda is known,
demean any other character that threatens the status of the Phoenix.
You've knocked,
Jamie Braddock
Jaspers
Wanda
Beyonder
Eternity
Merlyn & Roma
and others that don't come to mind right now.
So this debate is pointless.
Good day yall. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master
Again:Nope,
Beyonder NEVER once mentioned 616, nice try.
The 2006 Bio,
18 Years after Beyonder's retcon.
Gibberish.
Reality 616 has NEVER been a Multiverse.
Bullshit
There is NO Bio that states Beyonder confronted the 616 Abstracts.
Not as great a flop as your claims that Phoenix is second to TOAA.
That "Phoenix is the life-force of Reality". 😂
That "LT was bowing to the Phoenix".
That "Phoenix is the Big Bang". (yet Phoenix has NEVER Created a Universe)
but that's surely not hyperbole ey?
blahblah
Addressed and handled.
1 Your reference is based on the assumption that there is a Multi-Death. Such an entity has never ever been stated to exist and as far as we conclusively know has never been depicted on panel
2 The Beyonder story occurred within the 616 universe. The 616 bios of a multitude of characters refer to Beyonder. If Beyonder is within a 616 comic and refers to “our universe” then noone has any justification to say he is talking about anything other than 616. Understand that.
3 Your point about the bio is irrelevant. We’re arguing over whether the Death Beyonder killed was some imaginary Multi-Death that’s never been mentioned on panel, or plain old 616 Death. The Beyonder story occurred in 616, he said he was going to confront the abstracts of the universe and the 616 bios refer to Beyonder. 616 Death hasn’t undergone a retcon and it was her that was killed by Beyonder in that saga. Since we are arguing about Deaths status, the fact that it remains unchanged since that saga and it was her that faced the Beyonder is all that matters. Once again, just to highlight, your point is irrelevant.
4 616 Eternity has been referred to as a multiverse by many writers, however he is most commonly referred to as a universe as his multiversal status comes through containing various pocket dimensions and not through containing true universes such as the What Ifs which make up Multi Eternity. Beyonder within a 616 comic, whilst within the 616 universe refers to how our universe is a multiverse. The recent Defenders series referred to 616 as a multiverse.
616 Eternitys bio references that Defenders comic and the events within as happening to 616 Eternity directly:
(last paragraph)
5 The bios of Eternity 616 and Death 616 refer to Beyonder marking out that it was these 616 universal abstracts that he faced.
6 Another attempt to divert attention from the sorry state of affairs that is your argument. Try countering with evidence and well structured arguments that which humbles you e.g my posts.
7 Laughable 😱 😂 😆
Originally posted by Mr Master
Anywho,I could care less about this silly argument.
No matter what, your agenda is known,
demean any other character that threatens the status of the Phoenix.
You've knocked,
Jamie Braddock
Jaspers
Wanda
Beyonder
Eternity
Merlyn & Romaand others that don't come to mind right now.
So this debate is pointless.
Good day yall. 🙂
I've highlighted your biased interpretations on all of those characters. I've highlighted your tendency to overhype said characters and their feats all in an effort to justify the positioning of you know who on your incredibly flawed hierarchy. 😄
Carry on spouting your shit because as perfectly illustrated here whenever the mood takes me i can quite easily and comprehensively take you apart.
Now with no further ado........Toodles!!! 😱
The rest of your post is gibberish.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
616 Eternitys bio references that Defenders comic and the events within as happening to 616 Eternity directly:
I invite anyone to check out the Marvel Universe Handbooks of 2006
This is where this is from. 😂 (Beyonder was retconned in 89)
Beyonder's RETCONNED story is the one acknowledged.
WHY would Marvel give Two separate explanations in the Bio.? LOL!!
Is this some kind of joke?
Dude to what lengths does your hate go?
this shit reminds me of the attempt at deceiving others with your cropped scans of Jean and LT bowing to the Stranger.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
6 Another attempt to divert attention from the sorry state of affairs that is your argument. Try countering with evidence and well structured arguments that which humbles you e.g my posts.
stfu2
Now go wait around for me to post my thoughts in another thread,
so you can oppose it, regardless of your true opinion. 😏
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Laughable
We all are,
we all are. 😆
Well LT said that Death was being erased across the multiverse and if someone knows what goes on simultanius in all universes it must be him.
Taking his word for Death being erased.
Again don't adresse you have done so already so no need again, but you didn't answear my question the way I intended, didn't Dave's willingness have a effect if it didn't then the writer wouldn't have brought it into the story.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
I've highlighted your biased interpretations on all of those characters. I've highlighted your tendency to overhype said characters and their feats all in an effort to justify the positioning of you know who on
5funny
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
your incredibly flawed hierarchy.
So make your own thread
and see how many heads pay attention to what your opinion of the Hierarchy is.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Carry on spouting your shit because as perfectly illustrated here whenever the mood takes me i can quite easily and comprehensively take you apart.
Yip yap, bip boop yam. sign23
If you think anyone is taking you serious, your seriously confusing yourself.
You're the only hater that has the nerve to say Beyonder erased 616 Death and nothing more.
That in itself,
makes you look like a biased, agenda minded individual full of intransigence because of an overwhelming fascination with being right when completely and utterly Wrong.
Pre-Retcon Beyonder erased the Totality of Death
(the Concept of Death in all the Multiverse)
Death is ERASED across The Entire Multiverse
You want to twist this to mean something else,
go right ahead.
Same ol, same ol,
we're all used to it. swank
Originally posted by Utrigita
didn't Dave's willingness have a effect if it didn't then the writer wouldn't have brought it into the story.
Beyonder thought he didn't have enough power to re-create Death:
"The only way to do that (bring back Death) would be by Killing something, and that's even beyond my power now"
But Dave clears his mind by saying:
"I can't believe that, You STILL have more power than all of the mighty combined, there Must be a way"
Now Beyonder gains confidence and says:
"I suppose I could Try"
This is where one can misinterpret:
"Maybe if someone, some Sentient Creature were Willing"
Dave interrupts him and asks:
"Willing to Die?"
Beyonder responds:
"Worse ... to Become Death" (so it's NOT willing to die)
Beyonder goes on to say:
"In a manner of speaking (figuratively)
for from the first Death,
It's grim spectre would rise again"
So what does this tell you?
That something Sentient has to Die,
in order for the Concept of Death to be a part of Reality again.
But now it takes a power capable of killing, when there is No Concept of Death,
Molecule Man clearly said,
"ALL the Powers in the Multiverse TOGETHER CAN'T Kill something to get it started again"
Now Beyonder shines: (and Re-Creates the Multiversal Concept of Death Anew)
Trying to down play the Beyonder's feats is folly.
1Sometimes I really do worry about your ability to comprehend information.
The argument is over whether it was 616 Death or an imaginary Multi-Death never acknowledged in written statement or conclusively through artistic depiction. Whether Beyonder got depowered through retcon or not is irrelevant when the focus is on Death. Deaths status never changed and as such as highlighted by the 616 bio and the fact that Beyonder within a 616 comic, within the 616 universe says hes going to oppose the universes abstracts, your argument really doesn’t hold up well. In fact it’s officially disregarded. Tough break.
I like the attempt to try and discredit me as a result of being unable to efficiently counter my argument.
Its what always happens when you’re in receipt of a spanking.
Whenever you mention the LT incident which you weren’t a member for and which someone from around the time discounted all I need do is post a link to the thread wherer your hypocrisy and fallacy will forever be remembered:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/313281_16-parallax-vs-dark-phoenix#post8199040
Heres a choice quote that sums it all up:
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Quite correct youre through. Your selective scans from Excalibur 64 DONT show what youre trying to say they are therefore your ridiculous argument that Rachel is the sum total of the Phoenix Force FLOPS.I posted the full scan and it doesnt mean what youre trying to say. I already handled the issue previously. No need to waste any more effort on the issue.
In this very thread you edited a Phoenix scan and tried to make it look different from the one i posted so that you could say i never posted it and therefore accuse me of being biased.
You hypocritically posted bio entrys to support your argument after months of berating me for doing the same thing, only to shoot yourself in the foot because the bio only supported what i said 😂
You posted the bio and then tried to lie about what it said saying it just said "Phoenix", hoping foolishly that posters wouldnt see the "II" on the following line.
You posted a selective quote from an old thread and tried to make out i was saying something i wasnt. When i berated you for posting it out of context and lying about me and told you to post a link to the thread it came from so everyone could see the truth YOU DIDNT RESPOND.
BIG FRAUD. 😮
MASSIVE HYPOCRITE 👇
WASTE OF MINE AND EVERYONES EFFING TIME 😂
I’ve already made my point about Death in this thread. Reposting the same answer over and over again when you haven’t countered my points really isn’t gonna do you any good.
All it comes down to is during the Secret Wars Saga Beyonder marked out the universe he was in (616) as a multiverse of sorts because of the pocket dimensions that Eternity has within his borders:
That alone gives explanation for the abstracts reference to a multiversal affect once Death was destroyed.
On top of that in the same issue that Death was killed, Beyonder states that he is in opposition to the universal abstracts within 616 and that he would go on a crusade against them:
It is those same abstracts he later comes in confrontation with later on in that issue
While Beyonder has been retconned over the years, 616 Death hasn’t and retains the same status she had back in Secret Wars 2…..UNIVERSAL. 616 Deaths bio references the Beyonder incident:
So any comments regarding how Beyonder has been retconned are highly irrelevant as the retcon to Beyonder never saw a retcon to Death. She was universal back then, she’s universal now, hence the 616 bio referencing the instant.
Your argument for a Multi Death is based solely on the fact that the affect of Deaths demise was stated to be multiverse, however when you acknowledge that the Beyonder said the 616 universe is a multiverse of sorts then that explains it and it also explains why Beyonder refers to the abstracts he later confronts as universal whilst killing one later on is said to have a multiversal affect.
Please find a reference on panel to a Multi-Death, I’m begging you mate. Until then, I’ve pretty much got this one in the bag.
This back and forth has been fun (for me at least 😄 )
But I’ve said all that needs to be said, shown all that needs to be shown, dealt with all the queries that I needed to. The burden of proof lies on your shoulders mate.
Good luck!! 😱
Re: is thier any one in dc as powerful as pretcon beyonder?
Originally posted by lordboo
other than the presence/god is their anyone who could stand up to him alone or even combined as team?
IMO, Spectre is above Beyonder
DC Brothers are also. Before it turns ulgy, anyone can pm if they disagree
Guy222
