Originally posted by Juntai
Iron man was great, I loved the movie, but in every way you can critique a movie, from acting, directing, soundtrack, cinematography, dialogue, complexity, etc.. both Batman movies were far superior to any other in the "superhero movie" genre, so far that movies like Iron Man and Xmen and Hulk belong closer to Catwoman and Electra than they do to Batman Begins and Dark Knight. Period.
Originally posted by Juntai
the primary Iron Man actor couldn't out-act any of a dozen support characters
Remember Downey was nominated for an Academy Award for Chaplin... just saying. Give him some more credit, he is a better actor than Bale, Cain and Freeman. Ledger and Oldman are head and shoulders above most actors.
As far as Dark Knight being superior to every other movie in the categories YOU chose to compare them in, remember that IronMan was the first movie, the origin movie if you will, like Batman Begins was. Dark Knight was superior to it because it didn't need to go into the whole backstory of the main characters, IronMan did. Don't get me wrong, I LOVED Dark Knight. It was my favorite movie this year and perhaps ever in the Comic Book genre, BUT I can't be unfair. IronMan was better than Batman Begins as far as origin movies go, as a whole movie, because it was fresh and had nothing done previously. Unfortunately for Batman Begins it had the tougher task of washing the bad taste of Schumaker's Batmans from out palates. Once it accomplished that, it was free to make The Dark Knight the great movie it is.
Remember before ANY of these movies came out back in the late 90's early 2000's? The first movie that made it OK to like comic book movies again was the original X-Men. Maybe it didn't have the acting talent the caliber of TDK, but it had elements never before "wasted" on a movie like it. When I first saw that Bryan Singer incorporated Nazi camps I KNEW this movie was different. I have to give it props because for the first time a comic book movie was delving into the psyche of characters. Who would have cared if it hurt Logan when the nails came out before that movie? Today's movies owe alot to that. No one would have delved into the mind of Bruce Wayne like these last two movies did beforehand. Just remember where this came from.
PEACE
Originally posted by Juntai
Iron man was great, I loved the movie, but in every way you can critique a movie, from acting, directing, soundtrack, cinematography, dialogue, complexity, etc.. both Batman movies were far superior to any other in the "superhero movie" genre, so far that movies like Iron Man and Xmen and Hulk belong closer to Catwoman and Electra than they do to Batman Begins and Dark Knight. Period.
Originally posted by Juntai
Casting isn't one character, Batman had a full load across the board casting-wise. Perfect casting in every direction.Clearly the talent in Batman movies is a landslide comparatively, when the primary Iron Man actor couldn't out-act any of a dozen support characters, let alone the main characters in Batman.
I'm talking about acting, not cheesy one-liners.
Bale
Ledger
Micheal Cane
Liam Neeson
Morgan Freeman
Gary Oldman
Ken Watanabe
All are far better actors.
Just because the movie had more actors doesn't mean it had better casting. While Caine and Freeman were perfect, they are pretty much perfect in every movie, so it's hard to judge them in any way. Neeson was solid as was Oldman, although he was a little under-utilized. Bale, while solid although, didn't nail Bruce Wayne as much as I would have liked him to. Watanabe was completely wasted as he wasn't in the movie for very long, and we all know the disaster Katie Holmes was.
As for Iron Man, Downey Jr. was absolutely perfect as Stark, which carries so much weight since he's in 90% of the movie. Jeff Bridges was very surprising and did an excellent job hiding his duplicity until it was finally revealed. Terrance Howard did a solid job as Rhoades, and even Gwyneth Paltrow, whom I normally despise, was very effective in the film.
That's my opinion.
Originally posted by SpaceMonkeyYou lost me right there. Your credibility sank once I read that.
Remember Downey was nominated for an Academy Award for Chaplin... just saying. Give him some more credit, he is a better actor than Bale, Cain and Freeman. Ledger and Oldman are head and shoulders above most actors.
Originally posted by SpaceMonkey
Remember Downey was nominated for an Academy Award for Chaplin... just saying. Give him some more credit, he is a better actor than Bale, Cain and Freeman. Ledger and Oldman are head and shoulders above most actors.
I just read this. I completely agree with Juntai. Caine and Freeman are two of the greatest actors ever. Robert Downey, Jr. still has a ways to go to be as good as these legends are.
Freeman always plays the same character.... he's the black Jack Nicholson. Very overrated. Michael Caine, sir or no sir, is better than that, but I am talking about him TODAY. His range is playing a british man. PERIOD. What's so great about that? He might have had better roles and characters in the past but I am speaking of today, 2008.
As far as my credibility goes, good thing I don't care what you think about it, Juntai. Otherwise, I'd be devastated.
Originally posted by SpaceMonkeyReally, you're talking about recent stuff? Because I thought you were talking about;
Freeman always plays the same character.... he's the black Jack Nicholson. Very overrated. Michael Caine, sir or no sir, is better than that, but I am talking about him TODAY. His range is playing a british man. PERIOD. What's so great about that? He might have had better roles and characters in the past but I am speaking of today, 2008.
Remember Downey was nominated for an Academy Award for Chaplin... just saying. Give him some more credit, he is a better actor than Bale, Cain and Freeman.Chaplin was 1992, and he's better than none of the three.
For sake of comparison; Michael Caine won a Golden Globe for Little Voice in 98, Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor in 1999 - Cider House Rules and nominated again for Best Leading role in 2002 for The Quiet American.
All more recent.
In fact[ just to stress the difference ] that's not even the half of it. He's been nominated or won nearly as many awards as Robert Downey has been in movies.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000323/awards
Morgan Freeman being over-rated is clearly your opinion, and a bad one at that. Morgan Freeman has won an Academy Award as recently as 2005, among a host of other nominations and honors he's recieved. - As opposed to a nomination in 1992.
Name 10 good movies starring Robert Downey, and I'll do the same for Morgan Freeman, and we'll see what people think were better movies, or who's had the better career? It's comparable since they both entered the media around the same year.
And even Bale is arguable, despite not having been Nominated by the Academy yet, is known as one of the best and hardest working actors around, and has a very good portfolio even just in the last few years, having been in 3:10 to Yuma, The Pestige, The Dark Knight/Batman Begins, Harsh Times, Rescue Dawn, and The Machinist among others. Many of his characters have completely different accents, character traits, are in different time periods, and even have a different physique, looking at him in Machinist, then Batman then the Prestige. Once again, he's been in far better roles, and far better movies in Downey Jr.
Prior to Ironman, what was the last must-see that features Roberty Downey? Kiss Kiss Bang Bang in 05? And before that? Something in the early 90s?
As far as my credibility goes, good thing I don't care what you think about it, Juntai. Otherwise, I'd be devastated.I appologize for that, I was in a hurry and worded it differently than I would have liked, it meant to say you're credibility on the SUBJECT sank when I read that, and I stopped reading your reply. You might very well be a good fellow.
Couple of things.... you take this place too seriously, dude. Haha
OK, I will admit I admire your research skills. Let me say this, as far as acting in this genre, Downey did a better job than Freeman, who was just being Freeman. Cain has received those accolades, but he has had better material to work with. Downey is underrated because of his personal problems. Cain did not do a great job, he just played a british butler... not much to work with there.
Alas, I have been bested... 'tis a rare feat, but I underestimated you. I am Man enough to admit it. Makes me have to work more on my next argument.
Originally posted by SpaceMonkeyI'm completely looking forward to what Robert Downey Jr does from this point forward, it's likely after Ironman he'll be in blockbuster after blockbuster, like the 3 mentioned above. Now that Hollywood thinks it can make money off of him again. And his new movie with Ben Stiller looks hilarious.
Couple of things.... you take this place too seriously, dude. HahaOK, I will admit I admire your research skills. Let me say this, as far as acting in this genre, Downey did a better job than Freeman, who was just being Freeman. Cain has received those accolades, but he has had better material to work with. Downey is underrated because of his personal problems. Cain did not do a great job, he just played a british butler... not much to work with there.
Alas, I have been bested... 'tis a rare feat, but I underestimated you. I am Man enough to admit it. Makes me have to work more on my next argument.
Top 5 - no order
Ironman
Blade 98'
TDK
Sin City
X2 - if just for Night Crawlers fantastic opening - tie it with Spider-man 2.
Bottom 5 -
Blade 3 - (National Lampoons Blade)
Spider-man 3 (the musical that it is)
Elektra
[All Batman movies after Keatons]
Cat Woman was BAED
Honourable mention (would be tops) -
300 for artistic achievement
X1 just because
Hulk 03 because he was a beast like he should be
Hulk 08 for Super soldier backstory leading to the avengers franchise, all going towards making a good story.