Berserk Wolverine VS Namor

Originally posted by MRasheed
I've been reading Wolverine's exploits since the beginning. I know exactly what his powers are. And I know the difference between what he can do and PIS nonsense. I happen to be a comic creator and I don't care if nonsense has been recently allowed in continuity; the weaknesses and ignorances and and popularity power-up inconsistencies don't change the facts of Logan's actual abilities and power levels.

I also doubt you read wolverine, but that just my opinion. We will see once I finish with the rest of the post if you truly do know wolverines powers and abilities.

Also you seem to forget that like every character Logan has had up grades. Many characters have gotten better over time and most of which are mutants since they evolve over time and improve there abilities.

Originally posted by MRasheed
Wolverine possesses peak human strength, speed and reflexes. He has enhanced animal-like senses and a healing factor. He has retractable claws with a skeleton that are coated with adamantium.

When has wolverine ever been stated with Peak-Human abilities in a comic? The answer is he has not. You are welcome to try and provide evidence to your claim, but I can assure you that you will find none.

The closest Logan has ever been referenced to having peak-human abilities would have been Marvel Comics Presents Wolverine issue 42 were they state Logan has “Special Strength and Agility”. That even implied superhuman abilities, not peak-human. I am unaware of were you have gotten this notion that Logan has Peak-human stats.

Originally posted by MRasheed
And that's all. Those are his powers.

Logan also has superman agility.

Logan also has enhanced durability as stated in the weapon x novel as well as in civil war files.

Originally posted by MRasheed
Please note that it took him almost 2 months to heal from the injuries he sustained from his battle with Mariko's dad Lord Shingen.

Also that evidence is useless since it is pre two massive upgrades to wolverines healing factor.

Logan also has far more feats of being stabbed and healing the wound instantly then vice versa.

I would also like to respond to some other questions that have been brought up in this thread as well as misconceptions. This has nothing to do with you Mrasheed.

People have been stating incorrect information concerning what berserker rage does to wolverines mind. It does not make Logan stupid nor does he lose his fighting skills.

This is would berserker rage does to Logan’s mind
http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=berserker27ojlu9.jpg

This is found in Wolverine The Crunch Conundrum 1 of 3 Cry Of Madness issue 51:

I have also read a few posts ware individuals have stated that Logan stats do not increase while in berserker rage. This is actually false. Logan stats do increase as shown in Wolverine issue 32. It is said that Logan while berserker is as if Logan has taken the thunderbolt pills which greatly increases the users abilities well beyond there known limits.

I have also heard individual say that Namor is almost as skilled as Logan and few even stated if I am not mistaken that Namor is as skilled.

This is false, Namor is no were near Logan’s level of skill and would get defeat rather easily in a contest of fighting skill.

Here are a few feats that prove why Namor is no were near Logan’s level of skill.

Logan defeating Daredevil in a fist fight with in 5 panels
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvelcomicspresents151oo2.jpg

X-Men 97 hellfire Hong Kong guest –starring Shang-chi master of king-fu issue 97: Wolverine defeats Shan-chi in h2h combat rather easily showing Logan as the superior martial artist. It only takes Logan 5 panels to accomplish this.

Wolverine Onslaught Impact 2 issue 105: Wolverine goes into a burning building in order to save an old man. However the old man attacks wolverine and wolverine thinking him crazy does not fight back until he realizes that it is no other then Stick. After he realizes who it is Stick is unable to land a single hit and Logan gains the advantage. Logan displays his skills verse a man many consider to be the best fighter a long with Ogun.

Wolverine Origins issue 9: Wolverine is shown to have trained Black Widow in h2h combat.

Thank you for reading this and have a nice day everbody.

Originally posted by jinzin
[B]
the handbook's are generally not great sources to use...

Based on what?

Originally posted by MRasheed
Based on what?

Originally posted by MRasheed
Based on what?

Based on the fact that they have a large numbe of innacuracies within their pages. 😐

Handbooks have described sabretooth as a human level character WELL after he had been proven to have superhuman attributes.

They showed shang chi as having a lower level of fighting ability than kitty pride... 😐
This was at first attested to the fact that shang chi's emphasis is in kung fu while kitty is more well rounded... wrong... shang chi's proven in several instances that he knows all forms of martial arts, and has bested practitioners who boasted much the same.

Wolverine's bio stated that he could die or have his HF overloaded by damage to his organs... hell his older bios indicated that he couldn't even regrow organs...
this was all after he regenerated from a drop of blood.

Wendigo's stated to be capible of being on a level of durability that can withstand a nuclear attack.. yet he's constantly stabbed and eviscerated with ease.

Spiderman's been described several times as only having a vague warning system for a spider sense.

Jason Macndale was stated to have Goblin powers before he actually got them in the comics. 😐

Both Namor AND Sasquatch have been acredited with a strength level of 70 to 80 tons, in spite of them lifting far more than that on a regular basis.

Namor's top speed's in swimming were WAYYYY lower than the stuff he's regularly produced on panal.

Punisher was given a higher level of fighting ability than freakin daredevil for god's sakes.

Captain America was stated to only be able to lift 800 pounds as was Daredevil.. Yet Cap's bench pressed 1100 pounds while having a conversation.. darevil used a 400 pound barbell like it was a bo-staff and has toppled over a car before without much effort.

Wolverine was stated to be not much stronger than a regular human, yet he's curled a 1600 pound elevator with one arm, and slung a 1600 pound dumpster from one side of an alley to another with one hand and without effort. NOW wolverine's in the same strength category as spiderman. 😬

Hell some handbook charts have wolverine on the same power level as character's like Iron Man and War machine and only one level below that of hulk and sentry.

But hey you want to use handbooks as your standard of evidence? go right ahead. 🙄

Namor drops a tanker on Wolverine. 😐

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Namor drops a tanker on Wolverine. 😐

If they're fighting in a city, and Namor's gettin his cowardice on sure.

Meh. You say cowardice, I say strategy.

Lol, I wonder what Namor would say though.

BTW: nice sig.

Wolverine goes down.
Namor, fresh out of water is a Class 100 strength possessor.Away from water, his strength gets depowered, but it's still in the class 70/80 range and to lower him more, it would take days.
His durability is high, super/metahuman level range, and his reflexes and speed are as well in that league.
Logan has become the crappiest character and pushover EVER.Surviving from being reduced to a skeleton and that's it.Marvel jumped the shark with Wolverine.He hisn't in Namor's league, and he'll never be.His fights with Hulk are just for the love of the two characters fanboys.The only Hulk/Wolvie fight I classified as believable was when Logan was enhanced from Apocalypse as Death Horseman.
Namor wins this 10/10.

Originally posted by jinzin
Lol, I wonder what Namor would say though.

BTW: nice sig.

My ego tells me what I think is more important. 313

Originally posted by jinzin

But hey you want to use handbooks as your standard of evidence? go right ahead. 🙄

The problem with your anti-handbook argument is that this thread, and a few others, have been showcasing equal amounts of discrepancy and inconsistencies between the writers of the various comic stories themselves. the handbook historians' job is to make sense of and summarize the continuity.

Your dismissal of them is semi-hypocritical. You don't like them for no other reason than the fact that you were didappointed when they didn't list logan's strength level as 5 tons.

There's nothing wrong with the handbooks that isn't wrong with the stories they describe.

Soooo you guys are saying that Quicksilver with a 1' long Ice Pick would be the ULTIMATE WARRIOR?!

Why do we even bother with Wolverine versus whoever threads anymore? I guess he's damn near impossible to beat so why try. Lets look at this from a KMC's point.

Wolverine vrs. Hulk - Although Hulk shouldnt even notice Wolverine, this gets brought up all the time because Hulk has different strength levels and Wolverine has pierced his hide at his lowest showings so this is a legit battle now.

Wolverine vrs. Thor - Heck Wolverine supposedly cut RKT's arm off so what in the world could a normal Thor do to Wolverine? Another legitimate battle.

Wolverine vrs. Blackbolt - Its probable that Wolverine could cut Blackbolt and even though BB's scream is one of the deadliest weapons in comics, how can that beat a character that regenerates from a skeleton and cant die. Wolverine wins.

Wolverine vrs. Sentry - Sentry already made Wolverine look like a child but i'm sure some Wolverine lover would refute that and have something to say about how Wolverine wasnt really trying or something in that fashion.

Wolverine vrs. Iron Man - We all know that Wolverines god like ninja skills would allow him to somehow jam a claw through one of Iron Mans eye slits. This was an easy win for Wolverine.

See how stupid it is? Wolverine versus anybody shouldnt be allowed due to the fact that he is the biggest jobber in comics ever. Period.

I'm not being sarcastic, but why do we do it to ourselves. Wolverine should be nothing more than a street leveler, but he sells the most comics. Easy as that.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Every single person you listed would beat Wolverine 10/10... whats the problem?

And yet Namor has beaten or goes toe to toe with every one of these characters too. Thats my problem.

Originally posted by MRasheed
The problem with your anti-handbook argument is that this thread, and a few others, have been showcasing equal amounts of discrepancy and inconsistencies between the writers of the various comic stories themselves. the handbook historians' job is to make sense of and summarize the continuity.

Your dismissal of them is semi-hypocritical. You don't like them for no other reason than the fact that you were didappointed when they didn't list logan's strength level as 5 tons.

There's nothing wrong with the handbooks that isn't wrong with the stories they describe.

The argument is very very simple. Would you rather trust what Wikipedia says about Quantum mechanics or what a professor at Princeton has to say?

In terms of comics the comics themselves are REALITY the handbooks are a second-hand outside source that ignores various things that happen in the reality they are supposed to be describing. They're pretty good of you want to know a characters basic powerset beyod that you have to actually read comics to see what the character is capable of.

Comics have inconsitencies yes but there is a thing called AVERAGING.

Originally posted by MRasheed
The problem with your anti-handbook argument is that this thread, and a few others, have been showcasing equal amounts of discrepancy and inconsistencies between the writers of the various comic stories themselves. the handbook historians' job is to make sense of and summarize the continuity.

Your dismissal of them is semi-hypocritical. You don't like them for no other reason than the fact that you were didappointed when they didn't list logan's strength level as 5 tons.

There's nothing wrong with the handbooks that isn't wrong with the stories they describe.

Well since you want to use handbooks and bios look at everything its says about wolverine being super human and also look what it says about his healing factor and look where it says that he can lift 2 tons. Theres your hand book.

http://www.marveldatabase.com/Death_%28James_Howlett%29 💃

As a result of Wolverine's constant cellular regeneration and the additional weight and tensile strength of his skeleton he has some degree of superhuman strength enabling him to press somewhere in excess of 800 lbs and no more than 2 tons.

That's quite a large range there. So for most of his career he's shown with the peak humanish/800 lb strength and for those inconsistant strength feats written by the writer groupies they had to add the 2 ton thing.

Do you even get what my actual argument is? Why he shouldn't be able to defeat Namor? What are you arguing?

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The argument is very very simple. Would you rather trust what Wikipedia says about Quantum mechanics or what a professor at Princeton has to say?

That was a stupid analogy.

Peter Anderson is the official researcher and character historian of the Marvel Comics group. If anything he IS the professor at Princeton.

The Marvel writers are fanboys of varying degrees who have access to the exact same source materials that you do. The stories they write are based on what they'd like to see happen, what they felt should happen and what they feel the character should do based on their own fanboy speculations and theorizing.

They are HARDLY any more expert at the characters than we are. Professor at Princetomn my @ss...

Originally posted by tkitna
And yet Namor has beaten or goes toe to toe with every one of these characters too. Thats my problem.

Hello.

Co-sign.

[QUOTE=8937344]Originally posted by MRasheed
That's quite a large range there. So for most of his career he's shown with the peak humanish/800 lb strength and for those inconsistant strength feats written by the writer groupies they had to add the 2 ton thing.

Do you even get what my actual argument is? Why he shouldn't be able to defeat Namor? What are you arguing? [/QUOTE 😮 ]

Im arguing with you bc you keep saying wolverine shouldnt be doing this and that bc of some handbooks. So i showed you a bio of wolverine since you keep using handbooks and everything that cap it up said is directly in his bio (him being superhuman). For you to like wolverine you really are trying to limit him and find things that would make him lose this fight.

I have never seen anyone do anything like your doing. Trying to decrease a person powers or make him be what you think that he is so that he can lose.

Your just throwing everything that he has accomplished or did to satify your need. Wolverine has cut the hulk. Wolverine has beaten the hell out of namor. Namor had to sneak wolverine to get a win and wolverine was fatigue due to him being in previous battles. Dont eliminate that fact that wolverine has fought or taken down some heavy hitters. Dont argue with us, argue with marvel. Please dont say that wolverine is doing these things because he popular because the guy took on hulk and wendigo at the same time and he actually downed the wendigo and this happended before he was popular like he is now. 😮

Now if namor had some kind of defense against wolverine claws, then yeah I would give him the win but he has no way to circle around wolverine claws and he isnt near fast enough to evade wolverine before getting sliced to bits.

Just to help you out a little, here you go.
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/128/wolverine1618qu4.jpg
http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolbulletnd9qi6.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=strategydz6.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=204brwc7.jpg

Originally posted by MRasheed
The problem with your anti-handbook argument is that this thread, and a few others, have been showcasing equal amounts of discrepancy and inconsistencies between the writers of the various comic stories themselves.

Originally posted by MRasheed
the handbook historians' job is to make sense of and summarize the continuity.

Originally posted by MRasheed
Your dismissal of them is semi-hypocritical. You don't like them for no other reason than the fact that you were didappointed when they didn't list logan's strength level as 5 tons.

You really think it's for no other reason than wolverine's listed strength level (in spite of me thinking he lifts nowhere near 5 tons.. 😕...)? If that's all you got from my reply, then you're being as subjective with your reading and comprehension skills as you were with your application of real world logic.

No, see the point was that the handbooks are STILL written by these "ignorant writers" as you call them, and they are still subject to having erroneous information within their pages. They are far from gospel truth here. 😬 even in concerns to what should be comic knowledge to anyone who's picked up a comic for more than 10 minutes.

Originally posted by MRasheed
There's nothing wrong with the handbooks that isn't wrong with the stories they describe.