Berserk Wolverine VS Namor

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
The argument is very very simple. Would you rather trust what Wikipedia says about Quantum mechanics or what a professor at Princeton has to say?

In terms of comics the comics themselves are REALITY the handbooks are a second-hand outside source that ignores various things that happen in the reality they are supposed to be describing. They're pretty good of you want to know a characters basic powerset beyod that you have to actually read comics to see what the character is capable of.

Comics have inconsitencies yes but there is a thing called AVERAGING.

BINGO! give the man a cookie ladies and gentlemen.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
In terms of comics the comics themselves are REALITY the handbooks are a second-hand outside source that ignores various things that happen in the reality they are supposed to be describing. They're pretty good of you want to know a characters basic powerset beyod that you have to actually read comics to see what the character is capable of.

In a publishing industry in which multiple writers and editors are writing the same stories inside of a cross genre 'universe,' some policing is necessary in order to maintain the continuity and consistency that the Marvel Universe was famous for a decade or so ago and before. Obviously the modern creators and their fans don't care about those things anymore. There's a difference between a character receiving a power-up officially through character interaction,through an actually designed purpose in a storyline than by arbitrary power-ups based on inconsistencies in performance by poor writing issue-by-issue. The Official Handbook rightly ignores those kinds of wonky continuity problems to keep the MU at a certain standard. You Logan groupies are condoning the sloppy continuity problems that the DCU was famous for, damaging the integrity of the MU (the reason why they were on top for so long) for no reason than because of your obsessions.

Originally posted by carver9
[B] For you to like wolverine you really are trying to limit him and find things that would make him lose this fight.

My like/dislike of wolverine or any other character has nothing to do with his naturally created limits as designed by his creators. He doesn't have to develop the power of Galactus in order for me to like him or to even BE a good character.

The whole "They should make him more powerful" argument is the calling card and trademark of the fanboy mindset and is the source of the very problem this thread is discussing. The reason why Wolverine's power-ups/feats have grown ridiculously in that last few years is because the writing jobs at Marvel have left the hands of real writers and have been taken over by fan boys who arbitrarily make their personal favorite characters do things just because they like them.

As I thought from the beginning, the fanboy mantra "They should make him more powerful" is the foundation of all of you guys' argument. And it's going to be the death of the Marvel Universe.

Originally posted by MRasheed
In a publishing industry in which multiple writers and editors are writing the same stories inside of a cross genre 'universe,' some policing is necessary in order to maintain the continuity and consistency that the Marvel Universe was famous for a decade or so ago and before. Obviously the modern creators and their fans don't care about those things anymore. .

when a seasoned writer/Editor like Fabian takes on The Thunderbolts or Deadpool then I go with the comix coz Fabians done it all

OR Jim Lee /Alan Moore / Peter David / Brubaker / Scott Lobdell / Geoff Johns comix coz they're Pros. The Best. Their on panel feats can be considered CANON.

nothing personal but when someone like Gail Simone is writing a title it pays to keep up to date with the Handbook [its been a Jobfest over in Birds of Prey for a long time]

Villains United was excellent though! [by Simone]

Originally posted by jinzin
Lest you honestly believe that kitty pride and frank castle have better fighting ability than characters like shang chi or dare devil. 😕

Your interpretation of those passages was biased based on what you EXPECTED to read, because you are the only person I have EVER encountered who felt that the Official Handbooks claimed that Kitty and Frank could outfight The Master of Kung Fu and DD.

Before I even read an issue of a comic with Shang-Chi in it I read his Official Handbook entry and learned he was the S. H. I. T. amongst MU martial artists. What the heck is YOUR problem???

Do you have dyslexia? You do, don't you?

Originally posted by MRasheed
Your interpretation of those passages was biased based on what you EXPECTED to read,

Originally posted by MRasheed
because you are the only person I have EVER encountered who felt that the Official Handbooks claimed that Kitty and Frank could outfight The Master of Kung Fu and DD.

Originally posted by MRasheed
Before I even read an issue of a comic with Shang-Chi in it I read his Offial Hanbook entry and learned he was the S. H. I. T. amongst MU martial artists. What the heck is YOUR problem???

Originally posted by MRasheed
Do you have dyslexia? You do, don't you?

No, but I'll assume that you do since you think that I think that kitty pride's better then chi at fighting. 😕

see you guys in a few days.

Originally posted by capt it up

Logan defeating Daredevil in a fist fight with in 5 panels
http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=marvelcomicspresents151oo2.jpg

X-Men 97 hellfire Hong Kong guest –starring Shang-chi master of king-fu issue 97: Wolverine defeats Shan-chi in h2h combat rather easily showing Logan as the superior martial artist. It only takes Logan 5 panels to accomplish this.

Both fights are PIS.

Originally posted by jinzin

Punisher was given a higher level of fighting ability than freakin daredevil for god's sakes.

Oh yeah if Frank had radar sense maybe he would be as good as DD. I dunno man Frank seems to have just got weaker and weaker. When I first started reading comics serioulsy (1986)I got the impression that Frank was as good at Cap in H2H but now hes getting guns swiped out of his hand by Elecktra.

If Frank was written properly I think he would be a better MA than DD but its DDs radars sense and MA that makes him better than Frank. Im gonna get hell for this.

Anyway back on topic. 😄 Namor wins.

Originally posted by don't shiv
when a seasoned writer/Editor like Fabian takes on The Thunderbolts or Deadpool then I go with the comix coz Fabians done it all

OR Jim Lee /Alan Moore / Peter David / Brubaker / Scott Lobdell / Geoff Johns comix coz they're Pros. The Best. Their on panel feats can be considered CANON.

nothing personal but when someone like Gail Simone is writing a title it pays to keep up to date with the Handbook [its been a Jobfest over in Birds of Prey for a long time]

Villains United was excellent though! [by Simone]

i'd rather read simone's BOP than brubaker's uncanny x-men... 😬

Originally posted by MRasheed
My like/dislike of wolverine or any other character has nothing to do with his naturally created limits as designed by his creators. He doesn't have to develop the power of Galactus in order for me to like him or to even BE a good character.

The whole "They should make him more powerful" argument is the calling card and trademark of the fanboy mindset and is the source of the very problem this thread is discussing. The reason why Wolverine's power-ups/feats have grown ridiculously in that last few years is because the writing jobs at Marvel have left the hands of real writers and have been taken over by fan boys who arbitrarily make their personal favorite characters do things just because they like them.

As I thought from the beginning, the fanboy mantra "They should make him more powerful" is the foundation of all of you guys' argument. And it's going to be the death of the Marvel Universe.

/\ i like him...

welcome to kmc...

imo namor wins btw, but i'm sure anyone who knows me already knew i'd say that...

and matt murdock would own castle... 😛

lol...

You said that when you read the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe you didn't like because when you read it it said that kitty and frank castle were better martial artists than DD and shang chi.

Isn't that what you said? Yes, it is.

I said I never got that impression when I read their entries.

NOW do you understand? Maybe you should print this off and hold it up to a mirror or something...

Originally posted by pr1983
welcome to kmc...

thanks. i'm glad to be here.

really. 😄

Originally posted by Alfheim
If Frank was written properly I think he would be a better MA than DD but its DDs radars sense and MA that makes him better than Frank.

I disagree. the Punisher's close combat skills were written to come from his stint in the USMC as a bad @ss field agent (like FORCE recon). As such, his skills are supposed to be awesome (OO-RAH!!) but still inferior to the MU's super martial artists like DD and Elektra whose abilities should be closer to what Jet Li-type characters perform.

Originally posted by MRasheed
I disagree. the Punisher's close combat skills were written to come from his stint in the USMC as a bad @ss field agent (like FORCE recon). As such, his skills are supposed to be awesome (OO-RAH!!) but still inferior to the MU's super martial artists like DD and Elektra whose abilities should be closer to what Jet Li-type characters perform.

Well yes we know frank has had army training but I think Frank was also written to have gone beyond that. If you read Punisher comics he knows alot of other MA styles as well.

Anyway back on topic, shouldnt really be discussing this.

In order to defeat a character your powers have to give you an advantage. The Rhino is stronger than Spiderman, but Spiderman's superior agility, Spider sense, reflexes, and webbing allow Spiderman to constantly kick the crap out of the Rhino. The sum total of Spiderman's powers trumps the sh!t out of Rhino’s strength. That being said...

Wolverine simply isn't bringing enough to the field of battle to fight some one with Class 100 strength, flight faster then speed of sound, a body that can not only effortlessly withstand the pressure of the ocean, but thrive in it, last for short periods of time unaided in the vacuum of space, reflexes so fast that he has effortlessly dodged bullets and lasers, and has went toe to toe with the most powerful heroes and villains in the MU.

Oh yeah that's right.....Wolverine has a healing factor.

OK so when they fight wolverine can scratch at him with his Martial arts techniques and Namor can grab him (with the same reflexes that can effortlessly dodge gun and laser fire) and chuck him into outer space and let him "heal" from that. Or hold his little peak human ass or hell give him the strength of Spiderman (10 tons) because he still won't be able to break Namor's grip that could crush a wrecking ball and fling his little 5' 3" ass into a volcano and let him "heal" over and over again until the fricken Beyonder feels sorry for his ass.

Why the hell is this fight lasting 16+ pages again?

Originally posted by A-Rah
In order to defeat a character your powers have to give you an advantage. The Rhino is stronger than Spiderman, but Spiderman's superior agility, Spider sense, reflexes, and webbing allow Spiderman to constantly kick the crap out of the Rhino. The sum total of Spiderman's powers trumps the sh!t out of Rhino’s strength. That being said...

Wolverine simply isn't bringing enough to the field of battle to fight some one with Class 100 strength, flight faster then speed of sound, a body that can not only effortlessly withstand the pressure of the ocean, but thrive in it, last for short periods of time unaided in the vacuum of space, reflexes so fast that he has effortlessly dodged bullets and lasers, and has went toe to toe with the most powerful heroes and villains in the MU.

Oh yeah that's right.....Wolverine has a healing factor.

OK so when they fight wolverine can scratch at him with his Martial arts techniques and Namor can grab him (with the same reflexes that can effortlessly dodge gun and laser fire) and chuck him into outer space and let him "heal" from that. Or hold his little peak human ass or hell give him the strength of Spiderman (10 tons) because he still won't be able to break Namor's grip that could crush a wrecking ball and fling his little 5' 3" ass into a volcano and let him "heal" over and over again until the fricken Beyonder feels sorry for his ass.

Why the hell is this fight lasting 16+ pages again?

fanboys.

Originally posted by pr1983
fanboys.

Ahhhhhhh. I gotcha. 😉 😄

No you all dont have anything and it dont have anything to do with fanboys, its all common sense. Wolverine has fought people stronge and namor isnt as fast as wolverine, I give wolverine the edge in that department. Ok you use the fact that namor has dodge bullets, etc.... Hasnt wolverine done the same his entire career, hell iron fist does the same thing on a regular basis.

And for someone to be so fast hulk seems to hit this guy anytime he wants. Hercules seems to hit this guy, hell even thing hits this guy all the time. I know your not trying to tell me that all of these people are faster than wolverine.

You all are so one sided that its ridiculous. Im guessing wolverine is just going to stand there and let namor fly at him grab his hands and throw him in space. Well if thats the case namor would destroy almost anybody. I wonder when wolverine was fighting against the xmen rogue didnt just fly over there and grabbed wolverine and threw him out of the mansion. Can I answer that for you to give you a little knowledge, wolverine is to experienced for that.

If thing etc.... has hit namor what would make it so different than wolverine hitting him. Another thing about that is wolverine hitting namor is >>>> than thing hitting him. Namor is a bad a** BUT wolverine has the tools to bring him down and he also have the tools (adamantium bones and a healing factor that trumps hulks) to stand up to namor hardest punch and bounce back up like nothing happened.

It seems like a lot of people that is debating havent picked up a wolverine comic since he came out. Let me show you what namor punches is going to do.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4733087

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4741992
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4742013
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/361370_5-respect-wolverine
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4742020
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4742021

and bounced back up like he always do. See.....
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=4742027

Not only does he do that with the hulk but I would like to show more
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Wolverine/691ae1c0.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/sinister_samurai/Wolverine/3ec38d2c.jpg

So shut the hell up about namor strength because it dont matter in this fight.

Logan still loses.😊

yep logan still loses while namor head is chopped off beside wolverine unconcious body.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
This has to be cosigned. I've seen too many times for no reason that for the simple fact that when someone doesn't agree with Wolverine on here they are immediately insulted and it's childish. I can point out dozens of threads. The only time I deem it necessary to strike back is when I get tired of the childish insults and retorts. Which mostly come from the side who complains they are hated so much in the first place. I have no problem getting dirty my whole thing is if you can't sit at the table, then don't eat. And that's not aimed at jinzin in particular, that's aimed at everyone who does it, because 9 times out of 10 when I push back they can't take it. Someone "hating" your favorite character isn't really an excuse.

Originally posted by jinzin
l
I dont disagree with you, i just don't know how well these points relate to this thread in particular simply because I haven't seen a wealth of that taking place here...
No one seems to be acrediting wolverine to be capible of doing more than he can do.... except maybe the notion that he's faster than namor.. I'd venture to say they are about equals in the speed department.

Originally posted by MRasheed
That's quite a large range there. So for most of his career he's shown with the peak humanish/800 lb strength and for those inconsistant strength feats written by the writer groupies they had to add the 2 ton thing.
?

Your ignorence is amazing. I proved you incorrect and ask for you to prove logan has ever been listed as being peak-human in comics and yet you ignore my post.

Becuase it prove you wrong and you had nothing elese.

The fact is Logan been lifting over 800 pounds since day one.

Your just wrong.