Turkey in the EU?

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Turkish military needs to pull out and has ZERO right to be there. Turks are occupying Cyprus calling it Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, also recognised by Pakistan, so they have no right to be there.

People as people are fine, but we are not talking about that.

They got in there because the Greeks were killing Turkish people, now they could have left right after that, but who would have kept the people safe? The result is what we have now, and I think it's up to the people of Northern Cyprus to decide for themselves.

But there should at the very least be a removal of the border controls. Open the borders between the two places, make Cyprus remove it's trade embargo and make them open the ports in the north and eventually you can perhaps get the people united again by voting.

But I can see why you would think the Turkish army has no right to be there anymore, and I can somewhat agree with it, even so it makes no difference. We can't ask the Turks to just get up and retreat, they won't. We would need to work on a realistic solution and that would require concessions from both sides.

Bullcrap. Just like Kosovo situation.

Turkey took advantage of Greece's political problems, and announced peace-keeping operation to restore the constitutional order in Cyprus.
Invaded, then killed, expelled and torched Cypriot homes, and then called it Turkish land.

Peace keeping does not equal occupying than claiming other people's land.

Next thing i'll behearing from you is Armenian genocide is made up by Turk-haters.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Bullcrap. Just like Kosovo situation.

Turkey took advantage of Greece's political problems, and announced peace-keeping operation to restore the constitutional order in Cyprus.
Invaded, then killed, expelled and torched Cypriot homes, and then called it Turkish land.

Peace keeping does not equal occupying than claiming other people's land.

Next thing i'll behearing from you is Armenian genocide is made up by Turk-haters.

No, and that has nothing to do with this. I actually said that the Armenian genocide is an important issue on my first post.

Still it are the Turks who are in mass graves on Cyprus, and it was the Greek Militia backed by Greece that started the first real attack after riots. And you are right peace keeping does not equal occupying other people's land, that's why I suggested a democratic solution to the problem, let people vote. Remove the borders anyway and let the people live together no matter what the outcome of the vote. And Cyprus should remove the blockades right away at the same time Turkey should recognize Cyprus as a country as well.

my vote is biased cuz im Armenian. so No.

My vote is biased because the thought of a Muslim Europe upsets me.

Hmm my view is mixed on this one, hot topic at our uni though. In the short term future Turkey should continue to improve its treatment of political, religious and ethnic minorities in its country.

It should also, along with Greece and Cyprus try to work out some kind of arrangement for Cyprus. Whatever that arrangement may be there should be no forces (from either side) left on Cyprus (except maybe international or EU peace keepers) This means that Turkey will have to recognize Greece.

If those criteria are met I think Turkey should be allowed to join the EU, although that will take quite a while.

However, more realistically I don't think Turkey should join too soon. The Union needs to deal with the problems of the last expansion. Only then can it start thinking about countries like Turkey and Croatia. But I don't see the council reaching consensus about Turkey anytime soon. Croatia has a far better chance of joining in my book.

Originally posted by Fire
Hmm my view is mixed on this one, hot topic at our uni though. In the short term future Turkey should continue to improve its treatment of political, religious and ethnic minorities in its country.

It should also, along with Greece and Cyprus try to work out some kind of arrangement for Cyprus. Whatever that arrangement may be there should be no forces (from either side) left on Cyprus (except maybe international or EU peace keepers) This means that Turkey will have to recognize Greece.

If those criteria are met I think Turkey should be allowed to join the EU, although that will take quite a while.

However, more realistically I don't think Turkey should join too soon. The Union needs to deal with the problems of the last expansion. Only then can it start thinking about countries like Turkey and Croatia. But I don't see the council reaching consensus about Turkey anytime soon. Croatia has a far better chance of joining in my book.

Turkey already recognizes Greece it's Cyprus that's the problem... But you probably meant that, so never mind.

And Croatia might join the Union sooner but you have to wonder if something like that is what we want. Country's like Spain were helped greatly by the European Union but accepting in more country's in the Union that can't meet our economical demands might not be a good idea. Besides with the recent way Poland is going in female and gay rights it might not have been a good idea at all. Some country's just aren't ready.

Sooo...it's about picking and choosing which countries can be allowed?...I don't see this as a European Union. It looks more like a "Elite Union" to me.

Turkey isn't even in Europe. I think it should be excluded just because of that ermm

Originally posted by Strangelove
Turkey isn't even in Europe. I think it should be excluded just because of that ermm

Half of it is.

I see

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sooo...it's about picking and choosing which countries can be allowed?...I don't see this as a European Union. It looks more like a "Elite Union" to me.

If a country would be harmed or would harm the Union, then it's their full right to deny them access.

I don't see any reason why Turkey should be barred from entering the EU.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Cyprus

The UK is in Iraq illegally...so, whats your point.

Originally posted by Alliance
I don't see any reason why Turkey should be barred from entering the EU.

The UK is in Iraq illegally...so, whats your point.

Or were you being rhetorical?

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sooo...it's about picking and choosing which countries can be allowed?...I don't see this as a European Union. It looks more like a "Elite Union" to me.

The European union is at first an economical union which expanded into a union where country's that think alike work together to create a stronger economy and become more effective in area's like law enforcement. Currently the also work together on foreign affairs some country's want a united European army and much more.

The union however although named European is not a club for all European country's. We don't want all of Europe in the union. Of course the Union wants a lot of country's to join, makes them more powerful and creates a better chance to make an impact on the world and it could be great for the economy. That doesn't mean however that they should just accept any country because it happens to be in Europe, that would only end up hurting.

Originally posted by Fishy
Turkey already recognizes Greece it's Cyprus that's the problem... But you probably meant that, so never mind.

And Croatia might join the Union sooner but you have to wonder if something like that is what we want. Country's like Spain were helped greatly by the European Union but accepting in more country's in the Union that can't meet our economical demands might not be a good idea. Besides with the recent way Poland is going in female and gay rights it might not have been a good idea at all. Some country's just aren't ready.

Agreed Croatia has a long way to go, don't get me wrong I'm not advocating we should allow Croatia to join any time soon. As I said before the Union needs to deal with the problems of the last expansion before accepting any new members.

I agree with you that there are several countries that have some policies and views I don't consider very EU like. But then again as you said the EU still is first and for most an economic union.

It'll take a while before the EU gets rid of the trouble caused by the last expansion, but I think it'll work out in the end.

About Turkey being in Europe only a small part of Turkey is in Europe, but a small part is enough. The Union isn't an elite union in my book. Yes we set qualifications that have to be met before a country can join, but almost every intergovernmental organization does that.

Originally posted by Fire
Agreed Croatia has a long way to go, don't get me wrong I'm not advocating we should allow Croatia to join any time soon. As I said before the Union needs to deal with the problems of the last expansion before accepting any new members.

I agree with you that there are several countries that have some policies and views I don't consider very EU like. But then again as you said the EU still is first and for most an economic union.

It'll take a while before the EU gets rid of the trouble caused by the last expansion, but I think it'll work out in the end.

About Turkey being in Europe only a small part of Turkey is in Europe, but a small part is enough. The Union isn't an elite union in my book. Yes we set qualifications that have to be met before a country can join, but almost every intergovernmental organization does that.

Agreed, accept for that economical union part. The EU was founded as such but has long ago moved away from that. It's no longer just an economical union and all it's members should treat all it's citizens equally and have the basic freedoms that any nation should have. I'm not saying all should allow abortion, euthanasia and gay marriage although that would be good of them. But they should at least respect people that are gay, people that had abortions outside of their own country borders. Their constant disrespect of common values elsewhere in the Union is just annoying and should really change.

Poland is pretty much ruled by a religious club and that just can't be good for a Union that wants to work together on every field there is economical, social, and military.

True, but not much you can do about it. As you undoubtedly know most, and de facto almost all, EU legislation is decided by consensus in the council. This means that Poland or any other country can veto EU legislation about abortion, same sex marriage euthanasia and what not.
Polish nationals can however sue the Polish government based on the European Declaration for Human Rights, which Poland has had to accept. It says that discrimination based on Sexual preference is illegal.

Originally posted by Fire
True, but not much you can do about it. As you undoubtedly know most, and de facto almost all, EU legislation is decided by consensus in the council. This means that Poland or any other country can veto EU legislation about abortion, same sex marriage euthanasia and what not.
Polish nationals can however sue the Polish government based on the European Declaration for Human Rights, which Poland has had to accept. It says that discrimination based on Sexual preference is illegal.

I know that, and I seriously think that somebody should sue Poland... Their government is to religious and in my opinion breaking with basic human rights that they as you said had to accept. I just find it really strange that the Union just lets all of that happen and doesn't complain at all.

Originally posted by Alliance
I don't see any reason why Turkey should be barred from entering the EU.

The UK is in Iraq illegally...so, whats your point.

Read some history, will you? Maybe starting from Ottoman Empire. Your comments, like this one, are giving me a nose bleed.

Originally posted by WrathfulDwarf
Sooo...it's about picking and choosing which countries can be allowed?...I don't see this as a European Union. It looks more like a "Elite Union" to me.

So I guess you wouldn't think twice as to whom you will open your borders to?

Originally posted by Fishy
No, and that has nothing to do with this. I actually said that the Armenian genocide is an important issue on my first post.

Still it are the Turks who are in mass graves on Cyprus, and it was the Greek Militia backed by Greece that started the first real attack after riots. And you are right peace keeping does not equal occupying other people's land, that's why I suggested a democratic solution to the problem, let people vote. Remove the borders anyway and let the people live together no matter what the outcome of the vote. And Cyprus should remove the blockades right away at the same time Turkey should recognize Cyprus as a country as well.

Which mass graves?

....

I don't think UK should be in the EU at all, but that is my personal thought. Turkey should get into EU, at some point. As soon as it stops calling part of Cyprus, ''Turkish Republic of Northen Cyprus'', recognizes Armenian genocide, and stops death penalty (if it has not already), and also more rights for the religious non-muslim minorities.

However, as I mention in the first post, Nicolas Sarkozy, sad that he does not believe Turkey should be in the EU, ever. He said something along the lines of ''If we border with Iran, should be make Iran join EU too?''

Is that fair enough? Or is that little far fetched from Nicolas Sarkozy?