Turkey in the EU?

Originally posted by GCG
Europe fought to keep the Ottomans out ; why let them in now ??

Because they aren't the Ottomans anymore, and this logic sucks.

Do you know how often France and England fought? England and Germany? France and Germany? All of Europe and Germany? Eastern Balkan states against each other?

Wars have always plagued Europe, the last mayor we were in was started in Europe, by a European country... The head of the EU at the moment is the country that started the entire war. I don't think we should really care about that anymore.

Originally posted by Fishy
Because they aren't the Ottomans anymore, and this logic sucks.

Do you know how often France and England fought? England and Germany? France and Germany? All of Europe and Germany? Eastern Balkan states against each other?

Wars have always plagued Europe, the last mayor we were in was started in Europe, by a European country... The head of the EU at the moment is the country that started the entire war. I don't think we should really care about that anymore.

However they invaded Cyprus, as their predecessing Ottoman ancestors had done in the past and their occupation is temed as illegal by the UN.
They still have an ancestory mentality over there.

Originally posted by GCG
However they invaded Cyprus, as their predecessing Ottoman ancestors had done in the past and their occupation is temed as illegal by the UN.
They still have an ancestory mentality over there.

Cyprus matter is of course an important thing and it should be solved before they join the EU. We shouldn't however say they could never join the EU just because they once tried to invade it.

Originally posted by Fishy
Cyprus matter is of course an important thing and it should be solved before they join the EU. We shouldn't however say they could never join the EU just because they once tried to invade it.

Now if there is no resolve, should membership be consented??

Originally posted by GCG
Now if there is no resolve, should membership be consented??

No, you can't become a member of the European Union if you don't even recognize the other members of the Union. Besides Cyprus has a veto right so they can veto it even if the other 24 states would agree with it.

So if that is the greatest hurdle, what should Ankara propose to be an eligible candidate?

Originally posted by GCG
So if that is the greatest hurdle, what should Ankara propose to be an eligible candidate?

Democratic elections on the Island to decide what they want, this should be agreed upon by the UN and the EU though. Making Cyprus a huge problem.

At the same time they should recognize Cyprus, this should be done even before the elections are held.

Cyprus should in return stop their trade embargo against Turkey, and should stop blockading Turkish-Cyprus ports.

Turkey should also acknowledge the massacre against Armenians by the Ottoman Empire, now matter how bad that would make Atatürk look.

Of course they should improve basic human rights some more and allow for more religious freedom. The EU should in the mean time remove laws that make ignoring genocides illegal, as it pisses of a lot of Turks, (yeah I know that sounds strange combined with what I said earlier but it's a compromise) and they should work with Turkey better economically speaking and also keep a more open mind.

We should also allow them to enter negotiations again and give a clear date for an answer. Something that we have been ignoring for to long.

Originally posted by Fishy
The EU should in the mean time remove laws that make ignoring genocides illegal, as it pisses of a lot of Turks.

I can understand that you think Europe should give something as well but if that's the price for Turkey getting into the union then I don't want it in the union!

Originally posted by Fire
I agree with what you said, but I don't agree with this statement.
Why should we (or some countries cause I don't think its an EU directive to make negationism illegal) change our laws because they might upset the Turks? We've also legalized abortion and same sex marriage which Poland doesn't agree with, we didn't roll back those laws or rights for Poland to join.

I can understand that you think Europe should give something as well but if that's the price for Turkey getting into the union then I don't want it in the union!

Yeah your right, I just didn't really look at it like that. What I said was kind of because of personal reasons. I just the law is stupid, you are right Europe shouldn't be forced to say that. I just really think a law limiting our freedom of speech is ridiculously stupid even when it comes to matters like this. I can understand the holocaust but I think that is stupid already, I can't understand the other genocides in history. Some of them are still debated, and with laws like this that debate is suddenly killed.

So I might have been otherwise motivated when I said that, forget about it. It doesn't have to be removed because of Turkey although it would be nice.

Originally posted by Fire
I agree with what you said, but I don't agree with this statement.
Why should we (or some countries cause I don't think its an EU directive to make negationism illegal) change our laws because they might upset the Turks? We've also legalized abortion and same sex marriage which Poland doesn't agree with, we didn't roll back those laws or rights for Poland to join.

I can understand that you think Europe should give something as well but if that's the price for Turkey getting into the union then I don't want it in the union!

Well, the EU should revisit that law generally, though I agree that they should not do it to appease a nation might join. I mean...it's the EU that makes the rules, not the outside nations

Originally posted by Fire
I agree with what you said, but I don't agree with this statement.
Why should we (or some countries cause I don't think its an EU directive to make negationism illegal) change our laws because they might upset the Turks? We've also legalized abortion and same sex marriage which Poland doesn't agree with, we didn't roll back those laws or rights for Poland to join.

I can understand that you think Europe should give something as well but if that's the price for Turkey getting into the union then I don't want it in the union!

Poland does not agree with abortions? Are you sure?

I never pictured Poland as being so religiously influenced...for some reason.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Poland does not agree with abortions? Are you sure?

I never pictured Poland as being so religiously influenced...for some reason.

I thought they are very. But it is based on one or two documentaries I have seen some time ago.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Poland does not agree with abortions? Are you sure?

I never pictured Poland as being so religiously influenced...for some reason.

Poland is about as close as you can come to a theocracy in Europe outside of Vatican City.

Their minister of education recently said that gays should not be allowed to teach because those people might make their children gay. At the same time a law was passed forbidding gay propaganda in schools. Basically meaning that any book that makes gay look normal was removed from schools.

Amnesty international recently protested against the way it's going in Poland and the European court for human rights recently even told Poland to stop acting the way they did because it was breaking the international human rights law.

Their government is a religious orientated one, they wanted to put God in the European constitution and basically make all laws and decisions with the bible in their hands.

What the...?

Weird. I knew Poland is Catholic, but so were many other countries, and I never for a second thought (nor looked into, to be honest) Poland as being somewhat bit 'fundamental' in that retrospect.

I wonder if they have some strange laws over there in regards to Bible type laws.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What the...?

Weird. I knew Poland is Catholic, but so were many other countries, and I never for a second thought (nor looked into, to be honest) Poland as being somewhat bit 'fundamental' in that retrospect.

I wonder if they have some strange laws over there in regards to Bible type laws.

I was quite surprised as well, but it was on the news a lot here lately... Lot's of people pissed of over here because of the Polish government...

Another reason not to have turks on europe is that stabbing rate would go up.

Germany has a large Turk population, we know.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Another reason not to have turks on europe is that stabbing rate would go up.

The who in the what now?

Originally posted by Fishy
Poland is about as close as you can come to a theocracy in Europe outside of Vatican City.

Their minister of education recently said that gays should not be allowed to teach because those people might make their children gay. At the same time a law was passed forbidding gay propaganda in schools. Basically meaning that any book that makes gay look normal was removed from schools.

Amnesty international recently protested against the way it's going in Poland and the European court for human rights recently even told Poland to stop acting the way they did because it was breaking the international human rights law.

Their government is a religious orientated one, they wanted to put God in the European constitution and basically make all laws and decisions with the bible in their hands.

didn't Poland just pass a law that recognized Jesus Christ as their head of state? I remember something on the BBC about it...

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Germany has a large Turk population, we know.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
Another reason not to have turks on europe is that stabbing rate would go up.