Nihilus, Revan, Kun and Vader vs. NJO Luke

Started by jollyjim3114 pages
Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
If Luke could have he would have simply blasted the hell out of her with Lightning (he didn't, so we know it's not an instakill.

So because he didn't use it when he didn't want to kill her... we know it's not an instant-kill force technique? Interesting, to say the least.

Known force attacks bend away from Vong, even lightning. Luke has a different technique, seeing as how it wasn't that visually impressive, and probably wouldn't be enough electricity (even if it was normal electricity) to put down a Vong (Slayer!), never mind instantly killing him. Am I correct?

EXCEPT NOT!

It is so cute when you try to debate, Glentract. Do us a favor and just stick to your forte: mathematics.

Gideon didn't even answer Avis' questions. Avis is right, Gideon is getting into the old way of doing things. You know why, cause he's in the majority, just as Janus, IKC, and Faunus were. It's a cycle.

Gee whiz, Glentract, you're a walking contradiction! Not a week ago, you informed me - and, in fact, were unwilling to debate the issue - that the old way of doing things was the better way, and they were the better debaters. So, I guess, coming from you, this is a compliment.

I agree with Avis. You're slipping into how we used to do things. If you need to be insulted to get your head out of the clouds, then it's gotta happen.

Like I said, coming from you, it's a compliment, so I should say thanks, even though it is a rather deluded perception.

This proves....little.

Since you've never been an expert on 'what is proof' and 'what isn't proof', Glentract, I pretty much consider this assessment... little.

So what if Jacen knew Luke could beat Lumiya.

That's all you've got from that argument? Lmao. Why not try the whole 'no-name-Jedi-owned-Lumiya-and-Aleema-in-single-combat-in-the-same-book' or the fact that Nelani owned her in Betrayal.

We already know that Luke DID beat Lumiya, it just wasn't total ownage as many think it should have been.

Given the circumstances, no it wasn't. Without those circumstances, would it have been? Abso-freakin'-lutely.

Held his own? How about got a punctured lung and lost a hand, as well as nearly his life.

For such a keen, analytical mind, you do tend to let these 'minor details' slip past you. Let me reiterate: he didn't want to kill her.

If Luke could have he would have simply blasted the hell out of her with Lightning (he didn't, so we know it's not an instakill. If it was Lomi, Welk, and Lumiya would have been no problem.)

He didn't want to kill her, the bar patrons were between him and her, and they were attacking him as well.

That would have allowed him to keep causulties to a minimum and let him go help the bar patrons immediatly.

Certainly... if he didn't mind killing her and torching a dozen patrons... nice, Glentract!

He couldn't.

Special circumstances already outlined.

He's not strong enough to pwn Lumiya.

In the words of Obi-Wan, 'then you are lost'.

Originally posted by Gideon
It is so cute when you try to debate, Glentract. Do us a favor and just stick to your forte: mathematics.

Gee whiz, Glentract, you're a walking contradiction! Not a week ago, you informed me - and, in fact, were unwilling to debate the issue - that the old way of doing things was the better way, and they were the better debaters. So, I guess, coming from you, this is a compliment.

Like I said, coming from you, it's a compliment, so I should say thanks, even though it is a rather deluded perception.

Since you've never been an expert on 'what is proof' and 'what isn't proof', Glentract, I pretty much consider this assessment... little.

That's all you've got from that argument? Lmao. Why not try the whole 'no-name-Jedi-owned-Lumiya-and-Aleema-in-single-combat-in-the-same-book' or the fact that Nelani owned her in Betrayal.

Given the circumstances, no it wasn't. Without those circumstances, would it have been? Abso-freakin'-lutely.

For such a keen, analytical mind, you do tend to let these 'minor details' slip past you. Let me reiterate: he didn't want to kill her.

He didn't want to kill her, the bar patrons were between him and her, and they were attacking him as well.

Certainly... if he didn't mind killing her and torching a dozen patrons... nice, Glentract!

Special circumstances already outlined.

In the words of Obi-Wan, 'then you are lost'.

OWNED! Ver.2

Wow so according to glentract lumiya > luke? Stupid

NO! that is not what he said, don't put words in his mouth. He said Luke can beat Lumiya, just with some, if not a lot of, difficulty.

Glentract, thanks for sticking up for me, i appreciate it. now, there were a lot of distractions in Lukes fight with Lumiaya. Well, if a few bar parons are a distraction, imagine what a distraction 4 Dark Lords of the Sith will be! When he is trying to fight one, another will get all force ownage on him, and another will attempte to stab him through the back. I think Luke will be quite confused uder these circumstances!

Also, there is a question left unanswered. If Luke is so Uber, why didn't he jsut rip Lumiya's whip right out of her hands? No casualties, quick fight. so why did't he do it?

another thing. If the force doesn't work on Vong, how will a force instakill work? it wouldn't! there are 2 explanations for this.
1. It was a fore technique designed especially for Vong, and there for would, or would not, have an effect on the sith. most likely...it would not. or...
2. it was physical electricity, amped at a high enough voltage to turn green and kill Vong. if this was the case, a good sith lord an easily stop such an attack with the force.

ow, i want you guys to answer these questions. no "Because Luke is uber" crap either. i want real answers.

To be honest, I don't even think that Luke would win this match up (one on one he takes them, but all four at once, he is human after all), but I feel that any kind of comments about Lumyia being any kind of difficult opponent for Luke just reeks of crap.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis
NO! that is not what he said, don't put words in his mouth. He said Luke can beat Lumiya, just with some, if not a lot of, difficulty.

Fine, do you believe that?

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis

Glentract, thanks for sticking up for me, i appreciate it. now, there were a lot of distractions in Lukes fight with Lumiaya. Well, if a few bar parons are a distraction, imagine what a distraction 4 Dark Lords of the Sith will be! When he is trying to fight one, another will get all force ownage on him, and another will attempte to stab him through the back. I think Luke will be quite confused uder these circumstances!

Except, major difference in terms of distractions here, he didn't want to hurt any of the bar patrons (who again, were trying to kill him), not to mention that his mind was drifting to his wife's condition. In the case of this topic, he's facing down nothing but hostiles. No reason to hold back.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis

Also, there is a question left unanswered. If Luke is so Uber, why didn't he jsut rip Lumiya's whip right out of her hands? No casualties, quick fight. so why did't he do it?

Probably the same reason no one ever tried ripping a lightsaber out of Grevious' hand, and he's not even force sensitive. I just suppose that it isn't easy to grab a small object in the hands of another force sensitive, who's attacking you, in a room full of people who also want you dead.

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis

another thing. If the force doesn't work on Vong, how will a force instakill work? it wouldn't! there are 2 explanations for this.
1. It was a fore technique designed especially for Vong, and there for would, or would not, have an effect on the sith. most likely...it would not. or...
2. it was physical electricity, amped at a high enough voltage to turn green and kill Vong. if this was the case, a good sith lord an easily stop such an attack with the force.

Or it really is just an instakill, saying it only works on Vong because we've only seen it used on Vong is like saying Kun's amulet blasts don't work on force users because we've never seen them used on force users (not to my remembrance anyway, correct me if I'm wrong)

Originally posted by Null ARC Avis

ow, i want you guys to answer these questions. no "Because Luke is uber" crap either. i want real answers.

Seriously, the Janus days of Ragnos ass raping everyone in the SW universe are long past now.

No problem Avis, thanks to you too.

Originally posted by Gideon
It is so cute when you try to debate, Glentract. Do us a favor and just stick to your forte: mathematics.

Petty insults?

Originally posted by Gideon
Gee whiz, Glentract, you're a walking contradiction! Not a week ago, you informed me - and, in fact, were unwilling to debate the issue - that the old way of doing things was the better way, and they were the better debaters. So, I guess, coming from you, this is a compliment.

I never once said the old way was devoid of flaws. I never said that they didn't insult people without reason. You're doing that here, just as they did then. I maintain that they were better debators.

Originally posted by Gideon
Like I said, coming from you, it's a compliment, so I should say thanks, even though it is a rather deluded perception.

My perception is deluded? Not nearly as much as yours. It is not a compliment.

Originally posted by Gideon
That's all you've got from that argument? Lmao. Why not try the whole 'no-name-Jedi-owned-Lumiya-and-Aleema-in-single-combat-in-the-same-book' or the fact that Nelani owned her in Betrayal.

So what if a no-named Jedi nearly matched Lumiya. Lumiya still gave Luke a hard time. All you've proved is that a no-named Jedi could give Luke a hard time as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
Given the circumstances, no it wasn't. Without those circumstances, would it have been? Abso-freakin'-lutely.

Prove that it would have been ownage under different circumstances.

Originally posted by Gideon
For such a keen, analytical mind, you do tend to let these 'minor details' slip past you. Let me reiterate: he didn't want to kill her.

Nothing slipped past me. I know he didn't want to kill her. Disarming her doesn't mean killing her. He didn't want to kill Raynar but wasn't unable to DEFEND HIMSELF from Raynar. Luke could not defend himself from Lumiya, not wanting to kill her had nothing to do with it.

Originally posted by Gideon
He didn't want to kill her, the bar patrons were between him and her, and they were attacking him as well.

If Luke was as powerful as you claim he should have had not problem disarming her without killing her even with the bar patrons in the way. Disarming her as quickly as possible would have been the number one way to save not only his life and hers, but as many of the bar patrons as well. He didn't and the only logical explanation is that he was unable to.

Originally posted by Gideon
Certainly... if he didn't mind killing her and torching a dozen patrons... nice, Glentract!

Explain why he didn't use it on Lomi Plo, then.

Originally posted by Gideon
Special circumstances already outlined.

Circumstances that should have had zero effect on the fight.

Originally posted by Gideon
In the words of Obi-Wan, 'then you are lost'.

Only in the eyes of a fool.

Glentract: In Sacrifice, Luke dismantles Lumiya easily. Mara takes Lumiya, NELANI and Tresina Lobi took Lumiya.

Exile showed Luke was not putitng his heart into the fight....in Sacrifice? Luke slaughters her. Very literally. Lumiya's not coming back

Petty insults?

Lmao, Glentract, are you implying that you're some sort of forum saint? How hypocritical: the Janus-era - the era that you idolize and defend its so-called 'superiority' - was notorious for making petty insults, and you take offense when I do it? At least I provide an argument when I insult someone.

And in this case, one could interpret my insults to be blunt honesty.

I never once said the old way was devoid of flaws.

Of course not, since in all actuality, that's what it was: flawed.

I never said that they didn't insult people without reason.

Of course not, you're not even that stupid.

You're doing that here, just as they did then.

No, we've already established that 90% of my responses is an actual argument in favor of a debate, the 10% being jabs at you for your apparently boundless incompetence when it comes to certain things. Back in the old days, it was the reverse.

I maintain that they were better debators.

...This is an example of one of those 'certain things' in which you exhibit apparently boundless incompetence. Since they didn't actually debate, I question the methods by which you achieved this conclusion.

My perception is deluded? Not nearly as much as yours. It is not a compliment.

No, no. It is. You said the old ways were better, and that the ones who used them were better debaters. I am apparently engaging in some of the Janus-era typical behavior, so by your logic, I must be a superior logician.

So what if a no-named Jedi nearly matched Lumiya.

...Another example of your apparently boundless incompetence. These 'certain areas' are becoming a common factor.

Lumiya still gave Luke a hard time.

Yes, through previously established advantages and circumstances.

All you've proved is that a no-named Jedi could give Luke a hard time as well.

Lmao. Comparing Luke's achievements and examples of vast power in NJO and the Dark Next sagas to Lumiya and indicating that a 'no-name-Jedi could give Luke a hard time' is an absolutely stupid assertion.

Unless you're going to try to prove that Luke has apparently transgressed in actual power. Which is also stupid, because there is no reason even implied in the narrative of the story. In fact, if we wanted to get absolutely technical, in Suvivor's Quest - a few years before the Yuuzhan Vong invasion - Luke and Mara were hard pressed to destroy a slightly modified droideka. Timothy Zahn elaborated upon this in an interview, saying that "Luke was becoming Superman" and so he intentionally weakened Luke for the course of that particular plot, even though the story itself did not provide an explanation as to this disparity in power. SQ Luke is pathetic compared to DE Luke - despite it being well over a decade in time.

Yet is this to mean that Luke would have trouble with droidekas? No. Because this singular instance does not contradict the several other examples of Luke's awesome power.

Belittling Luke's power based on an isolated instance - fret with exenuating circumstances? Lmao, this sort of thought makes me think that you're trying to start some sort of forum-revolution.

Prove that it would have been ownage under different circumstances.

I don't need to, since it was a singular instance. However, if I did want to, I could point out the examples that Lightsnake has been kind enough to provide of Lumiya getting owned or curbstomped by people proven to be vastly inferior to Luke himself.

Nothing slipped past me.

Nothing sure equates to a whole helluva lot, these days.

I know he didn't want to kill her. Disarming her doesn't mean killing her. He didn't want to kill Raynar but wasn't unable to DEFEND HIMSELF from Raynar. Luke could not defend himself from Lumiya, not wanting to kill her had nothing to do with it.

Once again: disarming Lumiya isn't as effortless as you describe, and it was a singular instance that does not automatically disregard the previous examples. Why didn't Anakin or Obi-Wan disarm the Magnaguards they dueled with in RotS? The disparity in power between them is magnificent, since the Magnaguards themselves have no Force power at all. Why didn't Sidious disarm Mace in RotS? Why didn't Dooku disarm Anakin or Obi-Wan? Why didn't Vader disarm Luke? Why didn't DE Sidious disarm DE Luke? I could hurl out an infinite amount of examples, Glentract, so stop perversing your already twisted form of logic.

If Luke was as powerful as you claim he should have had not problem disarming her without killing her even with the bar patrons in the way. Disarming her as quickly as possible would have been the number one way to save not only his life and hers, but as many of the bar patrons as well. He didn't and the only logical explanation is that he was unable to.

This has been addressed.

Circumstances that should have had zero effect on the fight.

So let me get this straight:

If two people are in combat, and the first person does not want to kill the second person - the second person being a ruthless and manipulative sociopath willing to sacrifice [and manipulating] dozens of innocent people into attacking the first person to win (and actually doing so) - this has absolutely no bearing on his performance in the fight? Oh, not to mention the fact that the love of his life was in harm's way?

Lmao, one much less forgiving or understanding than myself might assume a few things: a.) You're not a fighter. b.) You've never been in a fight. c.) You've not observed fights. d.) You'd be screwed if you were ever in one.

Only in the eyes of a fool.

Trust me, I think we've seen enough from your eyes.

Really, Glentract, this is absolute bullshit. Either raise your game or stick to your calculator.

Glentract, seriously:

Nelani defeats Lumiya...
Tresina Lobi manages to slice off one of Lumiya's arms. She loses because of Alema
Mara's defeated Lumiya about twice...the first time, Lumiya was thought killed. The second, Lumiya barely survives.
In their two rematches, Lumiya is no match for Luke and says he can kill her whenever he wants to. When he does want to, Luke kills Lumiya easily and brutally

Originally posted by kiddo44
Luke would be killed in a few seconds.

I know, this is overkill!!!! 🙁