Count Dooku V.S. Revan

Started by S_W_LeGenD4 pages

Originally posted by Gideon
Dooku has:

- Supreme mastery of Makashi


Revan has supreme mastery in Jar Kai, which has no real weaknesses.

Originally posted by Gideon
- Exceptional Force mastery

And so is Revan's mastery.

Originally posted by Gideon
- Far more experience than Revan

You ignorance is superb. Real combat experience is actually gained from exposure to very dangerous situations and such situations are mostly experienced in case of a WAR.

Now Dooku has fought in one major conflict known as Clone Wars. Revan has fought in two major wars, which means that Revan has more combat experience.

Originally posted by Gideon
- Excellent manipulator and political tactition

And Revan is also a master planner and schemer and knows how to deal with politicians.

Originally posted by Gideon
- Use of the Force where 'physical strength' is irrelevant

Strength always contributes in a fight. A person with greater strength does not tires quickly.

Anakin was physically stronger then Dooku and Dooku had a hard time in matching his moves.

Originally posted by Gideon
You jackass fanboy, Dooku's going to lose the Force and all out fights, and he's going to win the saber fight. And they're all going to be difficult fights.

Dooku's victory in case of Saber Combat is questionable, since we have no source to back this up and considering Revan's superior precognition in mind.

What part of "very tough fights" term in my statement you did not understand?

My understanding and comprehension isn't in question here. Yours is.

Revan has faced some challenges which were harder then the challenge that Dooku would provide him. Want to see an example? Here is one:

Revan vs SF enhanced Malak:

Darth Malak on regular basis is better then Dooku in several cases. By the end of JCW, the Star Forge had enhanced his power further by a good deal and then he made some preparations that made him a "nearly unstoppable" opponent. This final fight was so hard that it was described to be of titanic proportions but guess what who won in the end? REVAN

This is my very final warning: if you're going to debate this poorly, don't bother arguing with me. I never said that Dooku's struggles and challenges were harder than Revan's, but rather that they were different. To say that 'Revan faced more dangerous challenges' would require proof.

Now you need to think twice before you go on and say that Revan cannot handle Dooku.

This is absolute ****ing stupidity, you dumbass.

I NEVER SAID THAT REVAN COULDN'T HANDLE DOOKU!!!!!!

He will defeat Dooku in most cases.

I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS. IN A FORCE FIGHT AND IN AN ALL OUT FIGHT, REVAN WOULD WIN. DOES THIS MASSIVE TEXT SIZE MAKE IT ANY CLEARER?

Does someone needs to be Thrawn to make smart decisions during the conflicts and duels?

I SAID THAT HE COULN'T PULL A PLAN OUT OF HIS ASS, NOT THAT HE COULDN'T CONSTRUCT A PLAN WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A DUEL.

And Revan has actually proved on several occasions that he can make smart decisions at the time of need. He will definately pull out a smart plan when he will engage in a hard fight.

I DIDN'T DENY THIS...

And the funny thing is that Dooku never ever mentioned about Revan.

Jesus Christ! Which means what, you jackass? That Revan was one of the very most successful Sith Lords ought to make it quite clear that Dooku knows about him.

And Revan's Sith ideologies proved to be successful actually.

You are without a shadow of a doubt the dumbest person on these forums. Seriously. Nebaris and LORDSIDIOUS on their worst days are ten times smarter than you have ever proven yourself capable of.

And the Sith history clearly indicates that it was through Revan's teachings that Bane got the inspiration of Rule of Two and became powerful enough to meet all the challenges that lay ahead for him and started a new Order of the Sith that would be stronger then before and Palpatine was part of this new order. Guess what? Palpatine would speak highly about Revan, if he ever mentions him.

I need to speak with Ush and REX about implementing an IQ requirement to participate in this forums. Words cannot begin to gauge the depth of your stupidity... I have said on previous occasions and several times during this thread that Revan was one of the most successful Sith ever, hence why Palpatine and Dooku would know of him.

Pull your copy of KotoR out of your ass and get some glasses.

What part of "his attention was fully diverted" point do you not understand?

What part of "he should have known about Malak's capability for treason prior" do you not understand? That he was distracted during the fact is irrelevant.

Revan's life was under threat and he was cornered by the Jedi strike on the deck of his ship. He was thinking about dealing with those Jedi at that time. Now what would you expect from him or anybody in that of kind of situation?

Don't tell me what Revan was thinking. He was a damn video game character.

I have never said that Revan's precognition is infallible. But it is indeed exceptional and certainly better then that of Dooku.

Sure it is.

He failed to see Anakin's betrayal because he was pre-occupied against Sidious and was under attack. He had to safe-guard him from that attack. Under normal circumstances, he was capable enough to sense the betrayal from Anakin.

No, you jackass. AotC made it clear that the Jedi's ability to sense the future was being diminished by the dark side [Palpatine]. Hell, Mace thought that "the fear" he sensed was Palpatine's, when in truth - it was Anakin's fear as per the novelization. He was incapable of seeing what might happen.

Did I said that Revan is infallible? You like to take things out of context actually.

By basing his victory apparently off of precognition, yes, what you said is tantamount to crediting Revan infallibility.

And is there any need to mention this comment. You took a chuck of my comment aimed for a different purpose and twisted the whole thing to suite your purpose.

What I wanted to say is that even Sidious failed to sense the betrayal in a particlar situation and lost. But this does not means that he does not have exceptional Precognition.

Similar was the case of Revan.

Sidious used his foresight to map out decades worth of plans. His foresight is, logic concludes, miles ahead of Revan's. But, even then, do I fellate his ability to see the future? No. Because it is fallible, so one must assume in a hypothetical situation that it will not always work. As is the case with Revan, period.

You are indeed baised against KOTOR characters as you fail to acknowledge their feats properly.

I acknowledge their damn feats, you idiot. You're the one giving Revan a fellatio.

No! he was not.

Yes! He was.

Check this quote: The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him.
[/QUOTE]

That comes from the [I]databank, you jackass. The movies, novelization, script > the databank.

Yoda was the most powerful practitioner of the Light Side of the Force in his age but that does not means that he was equal to Sidious.

He was equal to Sidious because the fight ended in a stalemate, you jackass.

In that situation?

Sidious could not be beaten by him in most situations because Sidious was more powerful then him.

No, Sidious wasn't.

No one can.

Yes, thanks for the update, fanboy.

Revan knew how to deal with influential politicians as well.

Which means jack shit...

Yusanis was also an influential politician. He learned about the true identity of Revan and was a threat to Revan because he could tarnish his image in the senate. But Revan reacted soon and dealt firmly with him and his associates, which resulted in fall of Echani influence in the politics. Guess what? Revan's genuis was not just limited to military command. He knew how to deal with other kinds of threats as well.

So what? Thrawn manipulated New Republic politics quite often. Does that make him on par with Dooku, a thoroughly educated and experienced politician? No. Does it put him on par with Darth 'I succeeded where Revan failed' Sidious? Hell no. Revan dealing with politicians does not make him a political mastermind.

The obvious reasons are as follows:

A) Superior precogntition capabilities.
B) More level of smartness.
C) And being a master strategist, schemer and planner.

Prove that Revan was a better schemer and planner than Dooku.

Revan's precognition is better then that of Dooku. He will be able to determine every move made by Dooku.

No, he won't. Revan's precognition is fallible. To say that he 'will determine every move made by Dooku' is fallacious. If I need to get REX and Ush here to slam that cold fact down your throat [we'll of course remove Revan's dick from it, first], by all means, I can.

It is not a fact.

Yes, it is a fact.

You cannot even understand meaning of that quote and you call me stupid. Yoda believed to be all that but he finally realized he was not as much.

The omniscient narrator called Yoda "the most powerful ever".

What a stupid comment. He was not the most powerful foe of the darkness as history proves it but he thought that he was but was mistaken and realized it when he faced a more powerful opponent.

You idiot! Being "the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known" does not make you "more powerful" than the darkness itself! It means that you are simply more powerful than any other lightsider prior, which he was.

Yoda and Sidious are much stronger then Dooku

They are stronger by a comfortable amount. But by a large one? Hardly.

And Revan is at-least on par with Yoda in some cases.

Prove it.

He just did. Want to see the proof?

Drew is NOT George Lucas. I don't dispute that he made the statements, but that does not make them valid. Only George Lucas and Leeland Chee [to a lesser extent] can make such calls. Period.

And these people are more powerful then Dooku.

Vader? Yes.

Vader easily destroyed Dooku in a single combat and Revan can match his strength and power.

According to Drew, who merely gave his opinion on the question. He is not Lucas. Period.

Also, Revan's Force Mastery is even greater.

No.

Question: Revan was strong in the Force. Could he lift or move some heavy objects with Force?
Answer: Yes. Like Yoda, he could have moved a small spaceship if he really concentrated.

That doesn't make it valid. But even if we took that as the truth, that means if Revan "really concentrated" he could perform a feat on par with Yoda a few months before his death.

Gee...

Sidous to Greivous: "Soon I will have a new apprentice. One who is younger and more powerful" (Source: ROTS Movie)

I said that he was the more powerful duelist, jackass.

Revan has supreme mastery in Jar Kai, which has no real weaknesses.

All forms have weaknesses.

And so is Revan's mastery.

No one's disputing that.

You ignorance is superb.

You ignorance is superb? Try 'your ignorance is superb'.

Real combat experience is actually gained from exposure to very dangerous situations and such situations are mostly experienced in case of a WAR.

Wrong. Dooku's constant dueling with Jedi, Dark Side adepts, and participation in constant sparring for seven decades would give him superior dueling experience.

Now Dooku has fought in one major conflict known as Clone Wars. Revan has fought in two major wars, which means that Revan has more combat experience.

I love this shitty fanboy logic.

And Revan is also a master planner and schemer and knows how to deal with politicians.

...He knows how to deal with politicians in a militaristic way. He's not a political mastermind, like Dooku.

Strength always contributes in a fight. A person with greater strength does not tires quickly.

Dooku could replenish his energy reserves in the Force quite handily and quite easily.

Anakin was physically stronger then Dooku and Dooku had a hard time in matching his moves.

...Because, unlike Revan, Anakin becomes stronger as the fight progresses. That is why Dooku couldn't meet him blow-for-blow.

Dooku's victory in case of Saber Combat is questionable,

No, it isn't.

since we have no source to back this up

Please deliver me a source indicating Revan's superior ability.

and considering Revan's superior precognition in mind.

Which isn't infallible, therefore, it cannot be gambled upon.

This is the very final time I'm going to say this: your ability to debate is pathetic. It's the worst I've seen on these forums. You constantly reiterate points I've already acknowledged with the only goal of fellating Revan even more. You pull bogus and bullshit 'statements' out of your ass: "Revan will determine all of Dooku's moves!!" and then you try to interpret logic your own horrendous way. You don't ****ing think, and it's because you're more concerned about Revan's uberness.

Do not bother arguing this point if you're going to debate like this. Get ACstyles or Advent to pick up the slack, because you are beyond hope.

Looks like I have touched a nerve! Seriously get a life - Gideon!

Originally posted by Gideon
My understanding and comprehension isn't in question here. Yours is.

You can't understand simple points made by me and you question my level of understanding?

Have you clearly understood what I am trying to say over-all?

Originally posted by Gideon
This is my very final warning: if you're going to debate this poorly, don't bother arguing with me. I never said that Dooku's struggles and challenges were harder than Revan's, but rather that they were different. To say that 'Revan faced more dangerous challenges' would require proof.

Being different is not in question here. I am talking about the difficulty level of challenges.

Dooku fought against some opponents. Revan also fought against some opponents. Now what is so different here?

And I have already given you proof of Revan winning in fight that was much harder then the challenge that Dooku will give him. Do you have eyes or not?

Originally posted by Gideon
This is absolute ****ing stupidity, you dumbass.

I NEVER SAID THAT REVAN COULDN'T HANDLE DOOKU!!!!!!


You are saying the Revan is better then Dooku by a hair, you dumb retard.

I am questioning this because Revan has fought and won in a much harder fight that Dooku can give to Revan.

Originally posted by Gideon
I HAVE ALREADY SAID THIS. IN A FORCE FIGHT AND IN AN ALL OUT FIGHT, REVAN WOULD WIN. DOES THIS MASSIVE TEXT SIZE MAKE IT ANY CLEARER?

PROVE TO ME THAT DOOKU CAN DEFEAT REVAN IN SABER COMBAT AS WELL. MASTERY OF MAKASHI IS NOT ENOUGH ANSWER.

Originally posted by Gideon
I SAID THAT HE COULN'T PULL A PLAN OUT OF HIS ASS, NOT THAT HE COULDN'T CONSTRUCT A PLAN WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF A DUEL.

REVAN CAN TAKE NOTE OF CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH HE WILL BE DEALING WITH DOOKU. IF HE FINDS ANY ADVANTAGE, HE WILL EXPLOIT IT.

Originally posted by Gideon
I DIDN'T DENY THIS...

FINE.

Originally posted by Gideon
Jesus Christ! Which means what, you jackass? That Revan was one of the very most successful Sith Lords ought to make it quite clear that Dooku knows about him.

He probably would but that does not means that he knows all about Revan's knowledge.

Originally posted by Gideon
You are without a shadow of a doubt the dumbest person on these forums. Seriously. Nebaris and LORDSIDIOUS on their worst days are ten times smarter than you have ever proven yourself capable of.

You are absolutely the most retard person in this forum. I never make as much stupid claims as Nebaris and LORDSIDIOUS would have made. But they are entitled to their opinions and I am to mine.

Originally posted by Gideon
I need to speak with Ush and REX about implementing an IQ requirement to participate in this forums. Words cannot begin to gauge the depth of your stupidity... I have said on previous occasions and several times during this thread that Revan was one of the most successful Sith ever, hence why Palpatine and Dooku would know of him.

You can try!

And this forum is for everybody and not just you.

Originally posted by Gideon
Pull your copy of KotoR out of your ass and get some glasses.

A totally irrelevant and stupid remark.

Originally posted by Gideon
What part of "he should have known about Malak's capability for treason prior" do you not understand? That he was distracted during the fact is irrelevant.

Malak never showed any signs of betrayal before. He was looking for a nice opportunity. And he was a friend of Revan, so he could be trusted to some extent.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't tell me what Revan was thinking. He was a damn video game character.

OMG? You have absolutely proved that you are a big retard. What does a game have to do with Revan's thinking ability?

Originally posted by Gideon
No, you jackass. AotC made it clear that the Jedi's ability to sense the future was being diminished by the dark side [Palpatine]. Hell, Mace thought that "the fear" he sensed was Palpatine's, when in truth - it was Anakin's fear as per the novelization. He was incapable of seeing what might happen.

Mace recognized Anakin's fear much earlier. He did not trusted Anakin for a good reason. When he was engaged against Sidious, he was distracted and thus could not focus on intentions of Anakin. Is this hard to grasp?

Originally posted by Gideon
By basing his victory apparently off of precognition, yes, what you said is tantamount to crediting Revan infallibility.

So do you agree that Revan can beat Dooku in melee combat due to his superior precognition?

Originally posted by Gideon
Sidious used his foresight to map out decades worth of plans. His foresight is, logic concludes, miles ahead of Revan's. But, even then, do I fellate his ability to see the future? No. Because it is fallible, so one must assume in a hypothetical situation that it will not always work. As is the case with Revan, period.

Revan's precognition is not as weak as you try to make it sound.

Originally posted by Gideon
I acknowledge their damn feats, you idiot. You're the one giving Revan a fellatio.

You underestimate Revan.

Originally posted by Gideon
That comes from the databank, you jackass. The movies, novelization, script > the databank.

Show me the quote from the Novelization and do provide a link as well, so that I can verify the accuracy of the quote.

Originally posted by Gideon
He was equal to Sidious because the fight ended in a stalemate, you jackass.

And then Yoda decided to run, right?

Man! Sidious was laughing at Yoda in most part of the duel. He was too much for Yoda to handle

If they were truely equals, Yoda would have done some harm to Sidious but he could not.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, Sidious wasn't.

Sidious would defeat Yoda at any given time or place.

Originally posted by Gideon
Which means jack shit...

Politicians can be smart fighters, right? Well! Revan dealt with some.

Originally posted by Gideon
So what? Thrawn manipulated New Republic politics quite often. Does that make him on par with Dooku, a thoroughly educated and experienced politician? No. Does it put him on par with Darth 'I succeeded where Revan failed' Sidious? Hell no. Revan dealing with politicians does not make him a political mastermind.

Revan failed because of an early betrayal, you retard.

Revan was smart enough to deal with smartness of politicians.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove that Revan was a better schemer and planner than Dooku.

Check all the details of Mando wars and JCW.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, he won't. Revan's precognition is fallible. To say that he 'will determine every move made by Dooku' is fallacious. If I need to get REX and Ush here to slam that cold fact down your throat [we'll of course remove Revan's dick from it, first], by all means, I can.

Revan proved your notion wrong by dealing with Yusanis.

Originally posted by Gideon
Yes, it is a fact.

Prove it.

Originally posted by Gideon
The omniscient narrator called Yoda "the most powerful ever".

He has been proven wrong then.

Originally posted by Gideon
You idiot! Being "the most powerful foe the darkness had ever known" does not make you "more powerful" than the darkness itself! It means that you are simply more powerful than any other lightsider prior, which he was. [/B]

Did I said that being the most powerful foe of the darkness makes you > darkness itself? You better stop putting words in my mouth.

And Yoda was the most powerful Jedi in his time and not prior to him and not after him.

Originally posted by Gideon
They are stronger by a comfortable amount. But by a large one? Hardly.

Yoda defeated Dooku twice and that too comfortably. This clearly means that Yoda > Dooku by a large margin.

And Sidious is even more powerful then Yoda. Dooku is no match for him.

Originally posted by Gideon
Prove it.

The comment made by Drew backs my point. So I have a SW Author supporting my view, which means something, right?

Apart from this Revan was very powerful in the Force and several characters acknowledged this.

Jedi Master Kriea: "Revan was power. Staring into his eyes was like staring into the heart of the Force. Even then, you could see the Jedi. he would slay etched on his soul."

Ajunta Pall: "The Force is so strong in you."

Additionally, Revan destroyed a SF empowered Malak in the battle, whose Force Mastery by the end of KOTOR was greater then that of Dooku by a comfortable margin.

Also it was indicated in the POD Novel that Revan's Force Mastery was enough to scare Darth Bane. Revan knew some techniques that were too dangerous for even a Sith Lord to try.

Revan knew many offensive Force techniques and his knowledge in the Force was far greater then that of Malak, who was among the most powerful Sith Lords of his age.

If Yoda destroyed an Hellfire Droid with the Force, Revan destroyed an entire army of the powerful SF Battle Droids on the Star Forge with the Force. Malak acknowledged this feat.

Originally posted by Gideon
Drew is NOT George Lucas. I don't dispute that he made the statements, but that does not make them valid. Only George Lucas and Leeland Chee [to a lesser extent] can make such calls. Period.

His comments hold more credibilty then ours though.

Originally posted by Gideon
Vader? Yes.

Bane and Revan can do that well.

Originally posted by Gideon
According to Drew, who merely gave his opinion on the question. He is not Lucas. Period.

Again! he is more knowledgeable then us and knows his shit.

Originally posted by Gideon
No.

Yes! it is.

Originally posted by Gideon
That doesn't make it valid. But even if we took that as the truth, that means if Revan "really concentrated" he could perform a feat on par with Yoda a few months before his death.

Yoda also "really concentrated" to perform that feat. Get you eyes checked.

Originally posted by Gideon
Gee...

I said that he was the more powerful duelist, jackass.


Dumb retard, Sidious said that he was more powerful then Dooku over-all. GL also supports this notion.

Originally posted by Gideon
All forms have weaknesses.

Jar Kai has less then others.

Originally posted by Gideon
You ignorance is superb? Try 'your ignorance is superb'.

You are a dumb retard who can't understand basic english posted by me.

Originally posted by Gideon
Wrong. Dooku's constant dueling with Jedi, Dark Side adepts, and participation in constant sparring for seven decades would give him superior dueling experience.

When was Dooku constantly dueling with Jedi and Dark Side adepts? Stop making shit out of your @ss.

And Revan too was being trained for several years and that too by several Jedi Masters and not just one, who were also vastly experienced as well. And they acknowledged that Revan was a fast learner. Time is an irrelevant thing.

Revan has proved his exceptional melee skills on several occasions. I have already mentioned some cases.

Originally posted by Gideon
I love this shitty fanboy logic.

And you call me ignorant when you yourself ignore any information that I mention here.

Revan has fought in more wars then Dooku did and he has more combat experience.

Originally posted by Gideon
...He knows how to deal with politicians in a militaristic way. He's not a political mastermind, like Dooku.

And being a politician does not gives you edge in combat. Your skills and experience do actually.

Originally posted by Gideon
Dooku could replenish his energy reserves in the Force quite handily and quite easily.

So can Revan and he is physically more strong as well.

Originally posted by Gideon
...Because, unlike Revan, Anakin becomes stronger as the fight progresses. That is why Dooku couldn't meet him blow-for-blow.

And Revan becomes weaker as fight progreses? Revan's fight on the Star Forge proves you entirely wrong.

Originally posted by Gideon
No, it isn't.

You cannot prove your point unless you have a source outrightly declaring it.

Originally posted by Gideon
Please deliver me a source indicating Revan's superior ability.

Why don't you show me a source that proves me wrong?

Revan's superior precognition and his supreme mastery in the Jar kai (a form which has no real weaknesses) makes him a possibly better fighter then Dooku in melee combat.

Originally posted by Gideon
Which isn't infallible, therefore, it cannot be gambled upon.

It is however superior to that of Dooku, so it holds some water.

Originally posted by Gideon
This is the very final time I'm going to say this: your ability to debate is pathetic. It's the worst I've seen on these forums. You constantly reiterate points I've already acknowledged with the only goal of fellating Revan even more. You pull bogus and bullshit 'statements' out of your ass: "Revan will determine all of Dooku's moves!!" and then you try to interpret logic your own horrendous way. You don't ****ing think, and it's because you're more concerned about Revan's uberness.

You are the biggest retard on this forum. You like to preach your version of Star Wars to others and do not listen to what others say. Get a life! you are not GL.

You say that Revan is better then Dooku by a very small margin. I do not agree with this notion and I have provided some evidences and sources that back my case but you fail to acknowledge them.

You need to get your eyes checked.

Originally posted by Gideon
Do not bother arguing this point if you're going to debate like this. Get ACstyles or Advent to pick up the slack, because you are beyond hope.

Than stop replying.

[QUOTE=9013702]Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What part of [b]"very tough fights" in my point you do not understand?

Revan has faced some challenges which were harder then the challenge that Dooku would provide him. Want to see an example? Here is one:

Revan vs SF enhanced Malak:

Darth Malak on regular basis is better then Dooku in some cases. By the end of JCW, the Star Forge had enhanced his power further by a good deal and then he made some preparations that made him a nearly unstoppable opponent. This final fight was so hard that it was described to be of titanic proportions but guess what who won in the end? REVANQUOTE]

What, are you kidding. Revan faced harder challenges, no way.

Dooku faced Yoda twice, the strongest Jedi ever, until NJO Luke become that.
Yoda is better then ST Malak and is also better then Revan. Thats canon, GL confirmed it, accept it.
Mace Windu, he is better then Revan with sabers.
ROTS Anakin, the best lightsaber dualist in the movies and up until NJO Luke took the tittle. ROTS Anakin would annihilate ST Malak in saber combat as would he Revan.

Dart Malak on regular bases isn't better then Dooku, not with Force nor with sabers. And with Star Forge powering him, he is at best just a little(by hair)better then Dooku in the Force and still weaker with a saber.

.

I told you that if you continued to debate like an utter jackass, we weren't going to discuss this any further. So, instead of adhering to my suggestion, what do you do? You debate like an utter jackass. I don't have time nor patience to deal with an idiot, LeGenD. You retorting that I am a retard is all well and good, but we both know that it isn't true, and if you'd like, we can ask the other forum members as to which one of us is smarter.

The fragility of your argument is personified by the simple fact that you chose to refute a small fraction of my rebuttle. If you're so sure of yourself and Revan's superiority, why not refute my entire argument? Instead, you prefer to reiterate "Revan is not weak!", "Revan is teh uber!", "Revan is a powerful Sith!", and "Revan is a brilliant tactition!" - all of which are points that, not only did I not deny, but points that I have offered, agreed with, and even happened to defend against Allankles. You can accuse me of "bias against Revan!" all you like; I debate objectively. Some of my more 'passionate' arguments have been in Revan's defense against Allankles on other threads. You, on the other hand, let biases consume you, to the point where you orally fellate Revan like a broken record.

...Then, of course, you go into a deeper section of the bullshit pool by insuating that anything Drew says in regards to Revan and other characters = canon fact. That is not the case. Then there is the lovely assertion that "Revan can predict and determine all of Dooku's moves!" without proper basis or support.

In short, your entire argument is flawed, you have no point that I haven't already agreed with, and everything else is heap upon heap of utter bullshit.

Don't bother continuing this debate. You suck beyond all compare as a debater, and you seriously ought to take your time to create cogent, coherent, logical arguments before running off every time someone proves that Revan is not an uber-god of the Force and that he would have tough times fighting powerful Sith and there are people who would stomp his ass into the proverbial dust.

I stand by my concluding assessment: you're worse than Nebaris or LORDSIDIOUS ever could dream of being.

One comment to add to this escape pwnage.. Escape, is it really logical that Dooku would know about Revan? I would have thought that those in Bane's lineage only deal with his lineage, so it's more logical that Dooku knew all that came from Bane, as opposed to the ancient sith lords. I could be wrong.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What, are you kidding. Revan faced harder challenges, no way.

Really? Here are some!

A) Revan faced an entire army of Sith on the Star Forge. Did Dooku faced such odds?

B) Revan faced a Sith Lord who became "nearly unstoppable" by the end of JCW and Revan still won. This challenge was much harder then Dooku himself can give to Revan.

C) Revan also survived an encounter with a Krayt Dragon.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku faced Yoda twice, the strongest Jedi ever, until NJO Luke become that.

Yoda is not the strongest Jedi ever. He is among the strongest however.

And the Sith Lord that Revan faced in the last battle of JCW was described as "nearly unstoppable".

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yoda is better then ST Malak and is also better then Revan. Thats canon, GL confirmed it, accept it.

You have no canonical evidence that outrightly declared so. And SF Malak was descibed as being "nearly unstoppable" because of obvious reasons that I have mentioned before. Read SW Databank.

Now how much better can you become from "nearly unstoppable" status? Not by much unless you are invincible.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Mace Windu, he is better then Revan with sabers.

Because of Vaapad?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
ROTS Anakin, the best lightsaber dualist in the movies and up until NJO Luke took the tittle. ROTS Anakin would annihilate ST Malak in saber combat as would he Revan.

Anakin would be able to beat them in Saber Combat but it will be hard fight and not a walk in the park.

Revan and Malak are also among the greatest swordsmen in the galaxy in the KOTOR age.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dart Malak on regular bases isn't better then Dooku, not with Force nor with sabers.

Want to compare Dooku and Malak now? I can do that for you!

MALAK:

Saber Combat Status: Master Swordsman. Adept in Juyo (according to Drew). Malak also used a special longer Light Saber that gave him higher chances to hit an opponent.

Physical Strength: He is like a body builder and is very strong. He tolerated a direct blow to his face from a Light Saber.

Talent: He was talented enough to become a War Hero and was a fast learner. He was also a good planner.

Force Mastery: Here is what Malak was capable of according to KOTOR;

- Master Practitioner of Force Lightning. He could instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning (as shown in KOTOR). He also tortured and corrupted Bastilla Shan with his Force Lightning in the Rakatan Temple. He could also perform "Chain Lighting" as well.
- TK abilities. (Adept in the art of Saber Throw as well)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Choke
- Force Whirlwind (He trapped Revan in a Force Whirlwind on Leviathan)
- Stasis Field (Capable of Force stunning multiple Jedi simultaneously)
- Mind Control capability
- Strong defensive abilities like Force Immunity and protected by a strong body armor
- Force Drain
- Telepathy
- Burst of Speed capability
- Force Healing capability
- Force Jump
- Force Sense

Experience: Malak had exceptional skills in combat skills, was a good schemer and was capable enough to successfully command and manage an entire Sith Empire.

If you talk about experience then you should note that real experience is always gained from wars and conflicts and not just from years of training.

So apart from being trained for several years, he gained real combat experiences from TWO Wars.

A) Mandalorian Wars (which continued for 4 years)
B) Jedi Civil War (which also continued for 4 years)

Additionally, Malak has trained some apprentices.

DOOKU:

Saber Combat Status: Master Swordsman. Adept in Makashi.

Physical Strength: He is normal in this regard. Not as strong as Malak.

Talent: Dooku was very talented and was also a great strategist and planner.

Force Mastery: Here is what Dooku is capable of according to the movies;

- Practitioner of Force Lightning
- TK abilities (Good in this regard specially)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Jump
- Force Choke
- Defensive abilities like Force Deflection
- Burst of Speed
- Telepathy
- Force Sense

Experience: Dooku had exceptional experience in politics, combat skills and was a good strategist.

Apart from being exceptionally trained by Yoda for several years, Dooku as far as I know had participated in Clone Wars (that continued for 4 years)

Additionally, Dooku also had trained some apprentices.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And with Star Forge powering him, he is at best just a little(by hair)better then Dooku in the Force and still weaker with a saber.

You are much more ignorant then I thought.

When Dooku will be considered to be "nearly unstoppable" in a duel, then you come and talk to me.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
What, are you kidding. Revan faced harder challenges, no way.

Really? Here are some!

A) Revan faced an entire army of Sith on the Star Forge. Did Dooku faced such odds?

B) Revan faced a Sith Lord who became "nearly unstoppable" by the end of JCW and Revan still won. This challenge was much harder then Dooku himself can give to Revan.

C) Revan also survived an encounter with a Krayt Dragon.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dooku faced Yoda twice, the strongest Jedi ever, until NJO Luke become that.

Yoda is not the strongest Jedi ever. He is among the strongest however.

And the Sith Lord that Revan faced in the last battle of JCW was described as "nearly unstoppable".

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Yoda is better then ST Malak and is also better then Revan. Thats canon, GL confirmed it, accept it.

You have no canonical evidence that outrightly declared so. And SF Malak was descibed as being "nearly unstoppable" because of obvious reasons that I have mentioned before. Read SW Databank.

Now how much better can you become from "nearly unstoppable" status? Not by much unless you are invincible.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Mace Windu, he is better then Revan with sabers.

Because of Vaapad?

Originally posted by Count Makashi
ROTS Anakin, the best lightsaber dualist in the movies and up until NJO Luke took the tittle. ROTS Anakin would annihilate ST Malak in saber combat as would he Revan.

Anakin would be able to beat them in Saber Combat but it will be hard fight and not a walk in the park.

Revan and Malak are also among the greatest swordsmen in the galaxy in the KOTOR age.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
Dart Malak on regular bases isn't better then Dooku, not with Force nor with sabers.

Want to compare Dooku and Malak now? I can do that for you!

MALAK:

Saber Combat Status: Master Swordsman. Adept in Juyo (according to Drew). Malak also used a special longer Light Saber that gave him higher chances to hit an opponent.

Physical Strength: He is like a body builder and is very strong. He tolerated a direct blow to his face from a Light Saber.

Talent: He was talented enough to become a War Hero and was a fast learner. He was also a good planner.

Force Mastery: Here is what Malak was capable of according to KOTOR;

- Master Practitioner of Force Lightning. He could instantly kill a Jedi with his Force Lightning (as shown in KOTOR). He also tortured and corrupted Bastilla Shan with his Force Lightning in the Rakatan Temple. He could also perform "Chain Lighting" as well.
- TK abilities. (Adept in the art of Saber Throw as well)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Choke
- Force Whirlwind (He trapped Revan in a Force Whirlwind on Leviathan)
- Stasis Field (Capable of Force stunning multiple Jedi simultaneously)
- Mind Control capability
- Strong defensive abilities like Force Immunity and protected by a strong body armor
- Force Drain
- Telepathy
- Burst of Speed capability
- Force Healing capability
- Force Jump
- Force Sense

Experience: Malak had exceptional skills in combat skills, was a good schemer and was capable enough to successfully command and manage an entire Sith Empire.

If you talk about experience then you should note that real experience is always gained from wars and conflicts and not just from years of training.

So apart from being trained for several years, he gained real combat experiences from TWO Wars.

A) Mandalorian Wars (which continued for 4 years)
B) Jedi Civil War (which also continued for 4 years)

Additionally, Malak has trained some apprentices.

DOOKU:

Saber Combat Status: Master Swordsman. Adept in Makashi.

Physical Strength: He is normal in this regard. Not as strong as Malak.

Talent: Dooku was very talented and was also a great strategist and planner.

Force Mastery: Here is what Dooku is capable of according to the movies;

- Practitioner of Force Lightning
- TK abilities (Good in this regard specially)
- Force Grip
- Force Push
- Force Jump
- Force Choke
- Defensive abilities like Force Deflection
- Burst of Speed
- Telepathy
- Force Sense

Experience: Dooku had exceptional experience in politics, combat skills and was a good strategist.

Apart from being exceptionally trained by Yoda for several years, Dooku as far as I know had participated in Clone Wars (that continued for 4 years)

Additionally, Dooku also had trained some apprentices.

Originally posted by Count Makashi
And with Star Forge powering him, he is at best just a little(by hair)better then Dooku in the Force and still weaker with a saber.

You are much more ignorant then I thought.

When Dooku will be considered to be "nearly unstoppable" in a duel, then you come and talk to me.

Originally posted by Gideon
I told you that if you continued to debate like an utter jackass, we weren't going to discuss this any further. So, instead of adhering to my suggestion, what do you do? You debate like an utter jackass. I don't have time nor patience to deal with an idiot, LeGenD.

If you are not comfortable with my debating style in case of Star Wars, then you better not argue with me. And you indeed are a retard who likes to pretend that he knows everything and preach his version of Star Wars to everybody, as if you have direct links with GL himself.

Originally posted by Gideon
You retorting that I am a retard is all well and good, but we both know that it isn't true, and if you'd like, we can ask the other forum members as to which one of us is smarter.

I do not need to ask other Forum members about this. My opinion regarding you is based upon your attitude towards me.

Originally posted by Gideon
The fragility of your argument is personified by the simple fact that you chose to refute a small fraction of my rebuttle. If you're so sure of yourself and Revan's superiority, why not refute my entire argument? Instead, you prefer to reiterate "Revan is not weak!", "Revan is teh uber!", "Revan is a powerful Sith!", and "Revan is a brilliant tactition!" - all of which are points that, not only did I not deny, but points that I have offered, agreed with, and even happened to defend against Allankles. You can accuse me of "bias against Revan!" all you like; I debate objectively. Some of my more 'passionate' arguments have been in Revan's defense against Allankles on other threads. You, on the other hand, let biases consume you, to the point where you orally fellate Revan like a broken record. P.

And yet you fail to acknowledge what I am trying to tell you in this thread. My entire main point is that Revan > Dooku by a decent margin. Your point is that Revan > Dooku by a very small margin. I am diagreeing with this notion and you failed to change it.

And you are indeed baised against KOTOR period characters and you have admitted that you absolutely dislike Revan. Your defending of Revan in a thread does not matters much because it was in a case where only KOTOR II characters were being discussed and not your favourite PT period characters. Most members at some point do defend Revan, so this is not unexpected.

Originally posted by Gideon
...Then, of course, you go into a deeper section of the bullshit pool by insuating that anything Drew says in regards to Revan and other characters = canon fact. That is not the case. Then there is the lovely assertion that "Revan can predict and determine all of Dooku's moves!" without proper basis or support.

You like putting words in my mouth?

I never said that Drew words = Canon fact, but his words can be used as a source to back my argument unless GL himself overrules his words directly. He is a SW Author after all and knows his shit.

Revan's precognition is believed to surpass even that of Yusanis, whose precognition capabilities were already very exceptional. And better read about how effective Echani precognition can be.

Revan certainly can judge all of Dooku's moves.

Originally posted by Gideon
In short, your entire argument is flawed, you have no point that I haven't already agreed with, and everything else is heap upon heap of utter bullshit.

You have yet to agree with my main point that I stated above and I know that you will not. Your arrogance is not less then mine.

Originally posted by Gideon
Don't bother continuing this debate. You suck beyond all compare as a debater, and you seriously ought to take your time to create cogent, coherent, logical arguments before running off every time someone proves that Revan is not an uber-god of the Force and that he would have tough times fighting powerful Sith and there are people who would stomp his ass into the proverbial dust.

You know nothing about my real detating skills. These are just casual debates and I do not take these debates seriously. And also Like Exanda Kane said that Star Wars is not to preach but to enjoy. You disagree with my POV on a certain thing, then do not argue and let it go.

And I never said that Revan was a Force God or something like that. I consider him to be among the most powerful Jedi in SW Galaxy however. And if I am as much a fanboy of Revan as you claim, I would have said that Revan > all, which is not the case.

Originally posted by Gideon
I stand by my concluding assessment: you're worse than Nebaris or LORDSIDIOUS ever could dream of being.

Your attitude puts you below them as well.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
One comment to add to this escape pwnage.. Escape, is it really logical that Dooku would know about Revan? I would have thought that those in Bane's lineage only deal with his lineage, so it's more logical that Dooku knew all that came from Bane, as opposed to the ancient sith lords. I could be wrong.

I find it very logical, since Bane derived a sizeable junk of his knowledge from Revan as well.

No no it is logical indeed, but it's unlikely Sidious would teach Dooku about the ancient sith order. Obviously it's a LOT more likely that Plagueis taught everything about the ancient sith and the new sith to Sidious, but Sidious had no intention of keeping Dooku as a permanent apprentice, so why bother? Same goes with Maul.

No, it's illogical to assume that Palpatine taught Dooku all of the Ancient Sith/Revan techniques. This is about history, which would be relatively harmless in comparison. It's logical to conclude that Dooku had a very firm grasp of Sith history.

Originally posted by Darth Sexy
No no it is logical indeed, but it's unlikely Sidious would teach Dooku about the ancient sith order. Obviously it's a LOT more likely that Plagueis taught everything about the ancient sith and the new sith to Sidious, but Sidious had no intention of keeping Dooku as a permanent apprentice, so why bother? Same goes with Maul.

It was possible that Dooku was very capable of learning about the ancient Sith War some other way beside Palpatine. Mace Windu knew a lot about the ancient Sith War as shown in the Clone Wars video game. That was a huge event in the Republic history. That would be like someone who was born and raised in the US not knowing about WW2 or the American Revolution. Just a thought though. I'm not really sure if the Jedi taught history so I wouldn't know.