Originally posted by CasanoVa😬, After fighting her for 5 pages straight (he was doing pretty well IMO) he suddenly gets defeated in a few panels, then less than a page later he cannot even lift something two weaker Avengers managed to with a single hand.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Acolyte_01/HELI.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Acolyte_01/HELI1.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Acolyte_01/HELI2.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Acolyte_01/HELI3.jpgDespite the fact Carol had already stated an issue prior he's "more powerful than all of us".
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q276/Acolyte_01/morepower.jpg
And I'm really the only one that suspects foul play?
If it turns out in MA #4 that Sentry hadn't been depowered, fine, I'll take it all back. But until then I [b]STILL
suspect that to have occured. [/B]
Move him down a tier durfist 😛
Originally posted by grey fox
No , he was underestimating and ignorant of the power Namor had. Let's not forget the term 'strongest meta-human' is thrown around a HELL of a lot in the Ultimateverse.Reeds defintion could mean Ben ? Or Thor ? But then Doctor Doom aparently pwns Thor strengthwise as well.
Thus the confusion begins.
Let's just leave it at Hyperbole people , it solves SO many problems.
Ignorant to Namor's power yes, but did he underestimating him? no. He was contained in a device that was supposedly able to contain the most physically powerful meta-human on earth whom at that time was Hulk. Reed knew this. The arc before he was given the Hulk containment tech, he used the unit to hold the Zombie versions of themselves. The containment unit he used on Namor could have very well been the Hulk containment tech.
Ultimate Hulk has pretty much been established as the physically most powerful being on the planet. Not only do his feats support the idea, but any time a "strong character" is captured or imprisoned, they're imprisoned in containment units that were originally created for the Hulk.
No Doom was only most powerful, not the strongest.
Meh, it was a fairly solid feat imo. Whats even more impressive is that his feats were done soon after his 9000 year slumber. It was stated his muscles weren't even working efficiently.
Originally posted by H. S. 6
I do not doubt that Reed thought it would have been able to hold some of the strongest meta-humans in his world. However, saying something and actually proving it are two different things. It's all speculation as to whether or not the machine would have been able to hold the likes of Thor, Hulk, etc., until we see some kind of proof.Sentry routinely uses his other powers in fights. Super Adaptoid? Yes. Terrax? Yes. Xeniac? Yes. The Inhumans? Yes. Also keep in mind, we haven't seen Sentry go all-out very often. Fortunately, this is something we do not have to worry about in Vs. Forum fights, as the characters fight to the best of their ability.
What other "pinnacle of strength feats" and hype are you comparing the helicarrier feat to? Because it's pretty damn impressive to me.
This fight is really a non-fight anyway, seeing as how Ultimate Namor has next to no feats. He broke out of Reed's machine (which clearly hadn't yet been tested with another meta-human), and made a man of water. We don't know how strong he is, how fast he is--we can see he isn't all that durable, as he was getting pretty beat up when he was fighting the Fantastic Four. We don't know how his waterkinesis works--for all we know, Sentry could simply reverse the effects by drawing out whatever energy Namor uses to create them. He couldn't stand up to the holograms he was fighting, and he couldn't defeat the F4, having to rely on the threat to New York to end the fight. No doubt he's a badass, but he just doesn't have the feats to support wins against the Sentry.
Indeed. It's now supposed that Doom is the "strongest" being in the Ult. Universe. When terms such as these are thrown around, it's best to accept them as hyperbole.
Hulk at that time was thought to be the physically most powerful being at that time. Reed knew this, he had access to the units that held Hulk. Thor has already been established as weaker than Hulk. he was contained in a Hulk containment unit.
Meh, Sentry like most top tiers routinely engage in h2h fights. This imo is not an indication of "holding back".
When I say pinnacle, I mean the feats we see from Superman, Black Adam, Thor, etc. When compared to their more impressive feats the Heli Carrier is nothing.
You must not have been reading the same comic I was reading.
He displayed how fast he was, as he had the ability to instantly teleport.
He displayed he intelligence, as he was able to learn the English in under a hour.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ultimate%20Namor%20Feats/Namorlearnlanguage.jpg
He displayed how strong he was, he not only had the feat I described above but he easily owned Thing, and he easily dispatched Reed's machine that possessed all the powers of the F-4. The machine was basically a replica of 616 Super Skrull.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ultimate%20Namor%20Feats/NamorvsF-4tank4.jpg
He displayed how durable he was.
Up until the nova blast, Namor displayed no signs of injury. The only thing the Nova blast did was destroy his cloths and darken his skin. Never during the fight did he show any signs of being weakened.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ultimate%20Namor%20Feats/Namortakesnova1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ultimate%20Namor%20Feats/Namortakesnova2.jpg
I'll leave the waterkineses alone.
He defeated the F-4. He first knocked the Thing across the city. He one shotted Human Torch, and easily punched through Sue's force field knocking her out. The Ultimate version of Super Skrull was then brought out by Reed, which was destroyed in a few pages. Reed then was stretched to the point of breaking.
Doom wasn't regarded as the physically most powerful, he was regarded to the most powerful being.
I really don't care who wins the fight, I just thought it would be nice to see.
Originally posted by His Airness
Hulk at that time was thought to be the physically most powerful being at that time. Reed knew this, he had access to the units that held Hulk. Thor has already been established as weaker than Hulk. he was contained in a Hulk containment unit.Meh, Sentry like most top tiers routinely engage in h2h fights. This imo is not an indication of "holding back".
When I say pinnacle, I mean the feats we see from Superman, Black Adam, Thor, etc. When compared to their more impressive feats the Heli Carrier is nothing.
You must not have been reading the same comic I was reading.
He displayed how fast he was, as he had the ability to instantly teleport.
He displayed he intelligence, as he was able to learn the English in under a hour.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ultimate%20Namor%20Feats/Namorlearnlanguage.jpg
He displayed how strong he was, he not only had the feat I described above but he easily owned Thing, and he easily dispatched Reed's machine that possessed all the powers of the F-4. The machine was basically a replica of 616 Super Skrull.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ultimate%20Namor%20Feats/NamorvsF-4tank4.jpg
He displayed how durable he was.
Up until the nova blast, Namor displayed no signs of injury. The only thing the Nova blast did was destroy his cloths and darken his skin. Never during the fight did he show any signs of being weakened.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ultimate%20Namor%20Feats/Namortakesnova1.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e101/Soujaboy/Ultimate%20Namor%20Feats/Namortakesnova2.jpgI'll leave the waterkineses alone.
He defeated the F-4. He first knocked the Thing across the city. He one shotted Human Torch, and easily punched through Sue's force field knocking her out. The Ultimate version of Super Skrull was then brought out by Reed, which was destroyed in a few pages. Reed then was stretched to the point of breaking.
Doom wasn't regarded as the physically most powerful, he was regarded to the most powerful being.
I really don't care who wins the fight, I just thought it would be nice to see.
It really does not matter who the containment equipment was meant to hold. Even Ultimate Hulk is weak, compared to some of the foes Sentry has faced (including 616). Don't forget, even Ultimate Captain America put him down for a time. Not very impressive.
It is holding back, as he was not using his full potential. In other words, for the very short time the fight lasted, he did not use the full extent of his powers. Another textbook definition of holding back.
It's nice that this helicarrier feat doesn't exactly compare with some high-end Superman, Thor, Black Adam, etc. feats, but it's a moot point in this fight. He's fighting Ultimate Namor.
It's extremely unlikely Namor "teleported" in that panel. Look at the panel before: he's hovering. Getting ready to take off. They simply flew. After all, why didn't Namor just teleport from the bottom of the ocean to the surface? Why didn't he just teleport back home after he kissed Sue? Why didn't he use this ability during the fight? There is no evidence they teleported. Furthermore, we have no idea how long it takes for them to get to Times Square. Even if it's a second or two, that's still not fast enough for Sentry.
Learning the language isn't going to help him in a fight.
Indeed, he broke through the machine. Impressive, true. But for the context of this fight, we do not know durable it is. And yes, we've established that Ult. Namor is strong, surely, but this feat provides no proof that his strength is any greater than Sentry's.
The Thing punch isn't worth mentioning. He wasn't even affected, except that he was thrown several blocks away.
His durability is questionable. Notice the cuts and marks Namor has on him from the fight. He's not invulnerable, that's for sure. And do we know Johnny went Nova there? Does Ult. Johnny even have the ability to go nova? It left him smoldering, bruised, and on the ground. While it's a good feat, something Sentry couldn't do? I don't think so.
A defeat for the F4? I don't think so. Neither was it a victory. Thing was unaffected. Reed was fine. Sue was ready to go. Without outside help, it is true that Torch would still be unconscious, but I hardly call that a victory for Namor. After all, we've seen how arrogant he is, yet instead of continuing the fight, he deciding to take the easy way out and threaten the city. Doesn't seem very confident to me.
This is true, though I think Reed would take into account more than just the strength of someone, but their overall power as well. As you put it, he is one of the smartest men on Earth, so I don't think he'd build the machine purely on strength.
You still haven't provided much evidence that Ultimate Namor would be able to stand up to the Sentry.
Originally posted by H. S. 6
It really does not matter who the containment equipment was meant to hold. Even Ultimate Hulk is weak, compared to some of the foes Sentry has faced (including 616). Don't forget, even Ultimate Captain America put him down for a time. Not very impressive.It is holding back, as he was not using his full potential. In other words, for the very short time the fight lasted, he did not use the full extent of his powers. Another textbook definition of holding back.
It's nice that this helicarrier feat doesn't exactly compare with some high-end Superman, Thor, Black Adam, etc. feats, but it's a moot point in this fight. He's fighting Ultimate Namor.
It's extremely unlikely Namor "teleported" in that panel. Look at the panel before: he's hovering. Getting ready to take off. They simply flew. After all, why didn't Namor just teleport from the bottom of the ocean to the surface? Why didn't he just teleport back home after he kissed Sue? Why didn't he use this ability during the fight? There is no evidence they teleported. Furthermore, we have no idea how long it takes for them to get to Times Square. Even if it's a second or two, that's still not fast enough for Sentry.
Learning the language isn't going to help him in a fight.
Indeed, he broke through the machine. Impressive, true. But for the context of this fight, we do not know durable it is. And yes, we've established that Ult. Namor is strong, surely, but this feat provides no proof that his strength is any greater than Sentry's.
The Thing punch isn't worth mentioning. He wasn't even affected, except that he was thrown several blocks away.
His durability is questionable. Notice the cuts and marks Namor has on him from the fight. He's not invulnerable, that's for sure. And do we know Johnny went Nova there? Does Ult. Johnny even have the ability to go nova? It left him smoldering, bruised, and on the ground. While it's a good feat, something Sentry couldn't do? I don't think so.
A defeat for the F4? I don't think so. Neither was it a victory. Thing was unaffected. Reed was fine. Sue was ready to go. Without outside help, it is true that Torch would still be unconscious, but I hardly call that a victory for Namor. After all, we've seen how arrogant he is, yet instead of continuing the fight, he deciding to take the easy way out and threaten the city. Doesn't seem very confident to me.
This is true, though I think Reed would take into account more than just the strength of someone, but their overall power as well. As you put it, he is one of the smartest men on Earth, so I don't think he'd build the machine purely on strength.
You still haven't provided much evidence that Ultimate Namor would be able to stand up to the Sentry.
My intentions was never to prove the Ultimate characters were more powerful than their 616 counterparts, only to prove that Ultimate Namor very well may be the physically most powerful being on the planet.
So according to your logic, every single fight Thor has been in and he didn't used the extent of his power to it's fullest potential, meaning god blast, anti force blast, anti gravity blast, transmutation, soul transmigration, solar flares, reverse energy, etc, he was holding back?
Thats not what you asked me. You asked what other "pinnacle of strength feats" and hype are you comparing the helicarrier feat to? I answered you. Sentry's strength feats as a whole aren't very impressive, at least when compared to the pinnacle of strength feats.
He teleported. The art not only indicates this, but Sue's astonishment. She didn't even notice they had moved, and they machines that were behind him were unable to follow.
Why are you asking me why the writer didn't implement a certain power when he could have?
Sue didn't notice they moved, thats how fast they moved. Claiming "thats not fast enough for Sentry" without any support of proof or scans, is completely baseless assumptions.
Being intelligent won't help him in a fight?
I never implied Namor was stronger than Sentry, only that he was the strongest in the Ultimate Universe. However Sentry doesn't have the feats to support completely dominant strength.
he was removed from the battle field from a punch. That counts as a victory, at least on these boards.
The cuts and marks were more so to add to the art, then to display injury or defeat. Namor wasn't even effected by the majority of their attacks. Never claimed he was invulnerable, but obviously neither is Sentry.
Well I knew he went Nova, because Sue told him to do so while protecting the area with a force field. The attack was just as ineffective as the rest of their attempts.
So threatening to destroy the city and kill them all isn't impressive to you? If he would have did so from the start we wouldn't get to see any thing from him other than water manipulation.
It was obvious what the machine was made for, as a matter of fact it was identical to the machine the Hulk was contained in during the Ultimates.
I don't have an opinion on the fight, just pointing some things out.
Originally posted by His Airness
My intentions was never to prove the Ultimate characters were more powerful than their 616 counterparts, only to prove that Ultimate Namor very well may be the physically most powerful being on the planet.[QUOTE=8955239]Originally posted by His Airness
[B]So according to your logic, every single fight Thor has been in and he didn't used the extent of his power to it's fullest potential, meaning god blast, anti force blast, anti gravity blast, transmutation, soul transmigration, solar flares, reverse energy, etc, he was holding back?
Pretty much. It's a well known fact that Thor is pretty retarded.
Originally posted by His Airness
Thats not what you asked me. You asked what other "pinnacle of strength feats" and hype are you comparing the helicarrier feat to? I answered you. Sentry's strength feats as a whole aren't very impressive, at least when compared to the pinnacle of strength feats.
Yet their still far more impressive then the guy you have a chubby on.
Originally posted by His Airness
He teleported. The art not only indicates this, but Sue's astonishment. She didn't even notice they had moved, and they machines that were behind him were unable to follow.
That's because he flew so fast, neither the robots nor Sue could keep up. He even levitates for christsakes.....
Originally posted by His Airness
Why are you asking me why the writer didn't implement a certain power when he could have?
Sue didn't notice they moved, thats how fast they moved.
Originally posted by His Airness
Claiming "thats not fast enough for Sentry" without any support of proof or scans, is completely baseless assumptions.
Well funnily enough Sentry CAN Teleport and actually HAS a teleport feat
Originally posted by Accel
Teleports away:http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/7103/newavengersv108122mp.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/9287/newavengersv108136vk.jpg
Or a decent Speed feat
Originally posted by Accel
Solves a crisis in Libya, going from the Watchtower and back in a matter of minutes:
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2769/st2p19mr.gif
Originally posted by His Airness
Being intelligent won't help him in a fight?
I'll let Ultimate Hulk do the talking for me....
Originally posted by His Airness
I never implied Namor was stronger than Sentry, only that he was the strongest in the Ultimate Universe. However Sentry doesn't have the feats to support completely dominant strength.
😆
80,000 ton Helicarrier HA. Leveling a amusement park with ease , one shotting Attuma ect.
Originally posted by His Airness
The cuts and marks were more so to add to the art, then to display injury or defeat. Namor wasn't even effected by the majority of their attacks. Never claimed he was invulnerable, but obviously neither is Sentry.
Much more durable however, MUCH more.
Originally posted by His Airness
Well I knew he went Nova, because Sue told him to do so while protecting the area with a force field. The attack was just as ineffective as the rest of their attempts.
Meh, current 616 Johnny could PWN his counterpart.
Originally posted by His Airness
So threatening to destroy the city and kill them all isn't impressive to you? If he would have did so from the start we wouldn't get to see any thing from him other than water manipulation.
Because it was a cheap way to end the fight, also who knows ? Sue could of held the entire thing in a force bubble, Reed could have made a 'dehydrating gun' ect.
Originally posted by grey fox
Pretty much. It's a well known fact that Thor is pretty retarded.Yet their still far more impressive then the guy you have a chubby on.
That's because he flew so fast, neither the robots nor Sue could keep up. He even levitates for christsakes.....
Sue didn't notice they moved, thats how fast they moved.
Well funnily enough Sentry CAN Teleport and actually HAS a teleport feat
Or a decent Speed feat
I'll let Ultimate Hulk do the talking for me....
😆
80,000 ton Helicarrier HA. Leveling a amusement park with ease , one shotting Attuma ect.
Much more durable however, MUCH more.
Meh, current 616 Johnny could PWN his counterpart.
Because it was a cheap way to end the fight, also who knows ? Sue could of held the entire thing in a force bubble, Reed could have made a 'dehydrating gun' ect.
So fights he lost without using a majority of Mjolnir's abilities should be thrown out? I call bullshit.
I don't even like Ultimate Namor, he hasn't been around enough to actually have fans. Just thought it was bring good discussion, which it has. The first time I've actually had an intelligent debate in a while.
IMo it's obvious teleportation, either way flying or teleporting the feat is impressive. Claiming Sentry is faster is baseless, and pure speculation.
I can't see anything. I honestly don't know what to make of the feats.
Adam warlock is infamous for his tactical genius, intelligence makes a difference in battles.
The Heli-Carrier feat is in no way impressive, all he did was slow it's fall giving time for his teammates to come and aid him. Thats a feats a Young Colossus was able to accomplish.
Meh.
How durable is Sentry exactly? He obviously isn't invulnerable.
Sue's shields couldn't even stand up to Namor's strength, and who's to say she can create a force bubble encompassing all of Manhattan.
Meh, Ultimate Namor's power doesn't seem to derive or be base on his hydration.
Originally posted by His AirnessHe is friggin badass! ✅
Whats your opinion on Ultimate Namor? 🙂
The only reason he doesn't take this IMO, is because he has very limited showings.
But the showings he does have are impressive, [ie. resistence to fire, going toe to toe with the Ultimates, and the ability to manifest enormous creations from the sea].
Originally posted by Galan007
He is friggin badass! ✅The only reason he doesn't take this IMO, is because he has very limited showings.
But the showings he does have are impressive, [ie. resistence to fire, going toe to toe with the Ultimates, and the ability to manifest enormous creations from the sea].
Yeah I thought it would be a good fight. I don't know, but ultimate Namor has a lot of potential, but due to the amount of showings I give the majority to Sentry. I must say though, I've enjoyed being able to debate again. 🙂
Originally posted by His AirnessI agree. 🙂
Yeah I thought it would be a good fight. I don't know, but ultimate Namor has a lot of potential, but due to the amount of showings I give the majority to Sentry.
Originally posted by His AirnessAgain? 😕
I must say though, I've enjoyed being able to debate again. 🙂
Originally posted by His Airness
So fights he lost without using a majority of Mjolnir's abilities should be thrown out? I call bullshit.
Call as much as you like , Thor is only portrayed reasonably intelligent in his Solo series. In most team-books he's just a guy who hit's stuff with a hammer.
Originally posted by His Airness
IMo it's obvious teleportation, either way flying or teleporting the feat is impressive. Claiming Sentry is faster is baseless, and pure speculation.
😆 Hell no son , it's just your too stubborn. Better yet it's a case of IDLIIDH
Better yet Namor moving from one part of NY to another is obviously far superior to going from the sun and back in a matter of moments
Originally posted by Accel
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2971/scan00196fp.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/6805/scan00202ii.jpg
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2097/scan00215jn.jpg
Originally posted by His Airness
Adam warlock is infamous for his tactical genius, intelligence makes a difference
Tactical genius and the ability to comprehend a language quickly are two completely different things.
Originally posted by His Airness
The Heli-Carrier feat is in no way impressive, all he did was slow it's fall giving time for his teammates to come and aid him. Thats a feats a Young Colossus was able to accomplish.
BULLSHIT
Originally posted by His Airness
How durable is Sentry exactly? He obviously isn't invulnerable.
He takes a Nuke without any trouble and flies back through earths atmosphere
Originally posted by H. S. 6
His Doctor tells Sentry that there is a thermonuclear device implanted in his stomach. Basically, if he tells him a certain word order (the secret to Sentry's origin), the device will blow. Fury activates it, and tells Sentry to get the Doc the hell away from Earth.Sentry picks up the dock and begins to fly towards the upper atmosphere:
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/1718/sentryandthermonuke1dq8.jpgStarts to talk to the Doctor (notice they still have time to talk):
http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/7804/sentryandthermonuke2ma1.jpgSha-blam! The thermonuclear bomb blows up, and Sentry is not even affected. That's some power:
http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/8155/sentryandthermonuke3wg9.jpg
Or how about holding Wolverines adamantium claws ?
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverine47010gs0.jpg
Sentry is stronger , faster and more durable.
This fight is a slaughter simply put.
This one is kind of cool too...
Sentry, containing a Cosmic Cube for a short while, [and it was trying to break free]...
"The Golden Guardian struggles to contain the Cosmic Cube"
"I've got it stabilized but even I can't hold it much longer, my arms are going Numb":
I still think Namor could put up a decent fight though.
Originally posted by grey fox
Call as much as you like , Thor is only portrayed reasonably intelligent in his Solo series. In most team-books he's just a guy who hit's stuff with a hammer.😆 Hell no son , it's just your too stubborn. Better yet it's a case of IDLIIDH
Better yet Namor moving from one part of NY to another is obviously far superior to [b]going from the sun and back in a matter of moments
Tactical genius and the ability to comprehend a language quickly are two completely different things.
BULLSHIT
He takes a Nuke without any trouble and flies back through earths atmosphere
Or how about holding Wolverines adamantium claws ?
http://img204.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wolverine47010gs0.jpg
Sentry is stronger , faster and more durable.
This fight is a slaughter simply put. [/B]
I completely agree, however we can't simply disregard all his loses in which he didn't utilize every single attack in Mjolnirs arsenal.
I've seen it, but hey I forgot about it. Still though, travel speed does not equate to combat speed.
One part of being a tactful genius, is being intelligent. Learning the English language in a hour by simply listening to gestures and mannerisms rivals Kryptonian intellect.
Your calling bullshit but thats exactly what happened. Sentry simply failed, he wasn't strong enough.
Ok.
So holding Wolverine's claws is considered an impressive durability feat?
If Sentry is stronger, he's not much stronger, even so all we know about Namor's strength is that he's one of if not the strongest on Ultimate earth.
Travel speed faster, meh I guess but combat speed is a totally different category of speed.
Durable, I'll give him that.
Still good fight.
Originally posted by His Airness
I've seen it, but hey I forgot about it. Still though, travel speed does not equate to combat speed.
Ever hear of a Speedblitz ?
Originally posted by His Airness
Your calling bullshit but thats exactly what happened. Sentry simply failed, he wasn't strong enough.
I've already stated, Sentry has Physics going against him. He was straining to hold something that (if held incorrectly) could tear itself in half. Compare it to Superman Returns wherin Supes tries to slow the plane by holding it's wing.
Originally posted by His Airness
So holding Wolverine's claws is considered an impressive durability feat?
When their adamantium, yes.
Originally posted by His Airness
If Sentry is stronger, he's not much stronger, even so all we know about Namor's strength is that he's one of if not the strongest on Ultimate earth.
Do I see Namor hefting an 80'000 ton Helicarrier, one shotting attuma , pwning Hulk ?
No
Originally posted by His Airness
Travel speed faster, meh I guess but combat speed is a totally different category of speed.
See above
