Fantastic Four 546

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I don't see how it's biased to let someone endowed with an energy that can do anything do anything but have problems with someone whose powers are constantly tied to the nature assemble a breathable atmosphere by accelerating oxygen molecules across a million mile radius to faster than light speeds.

It's different for Magneto, and possibly Polaris, because they capture the atmosphere in their shields and fly around space with the air pocket with them. Granted, they probably breathe more than they take but that suspension is much less than sending oxygen molecules into high warp.

The final topper is pure oxygen not good for brain. If in space with oxygen you is screwed.

Excuses excuses. 🙄

Wow, Magneto and Polaris fly in a vacuum at whatever speed in an airtight bubble............ 😕

"Nature"/the elements in the sense of Ororo's powerset exist EVERYWHERE.

shocklaugh

The pure Oxygen thing only seems to deal with resuscitation.

Also, how can the power cosmic endow him with the ability to do anything?? How do you actually figure there are no parameters??

If he could do "anything", he'd//they'd be omnipotent.

to be honest, i dont even think claremont knows what electrolysis is. it is, however, when a finely controlled current is run through water to break it into oxygen and hydrogen. just releasing electricity into the water wouldn't have accomplished it, especially not to the effect of air bubbles forming under her armpits. but, it happened, i'll "suspend my disbelief."

if the average marble is approximately three milliliters in volume, and the average adult lung can hold two liters of air in one deep breath, it would take storm sucking in all the oxygen from 166,500 cubic miles to get one full breath. then she'd need to reach further for the next, because despite the vaccuum of space, and other remnants of oxygen could not possibly move into the same positions [across thousands of cubic miles] in enough time to replace the inhaled oxygen.

and how, exactly would she unbind the oxygen from the gravitational pull of stars? is gravity an element now? wouldn't the oxygen be burning off when reaching the stars? wouldn't any free-floating oxygen condense to a liquid or solid when gathered, given the bitter cold of space? in x-men 199, iceman mentioned that in temperatures even NEARING the bitter cold you'd find in space, you'd need to sip your oxygen instead of inhale it.

if storm had some magic, science-defying power source like the power cosmic, i'd be fine with her doing whatever the **** she wants. but she doesn't. her powers are tied to the geological and meteorological phenomena in an atmosphere, and whatever crap rules that translates into in space. those are the physical laws of the universe. she's packaged pre-****ed for that type of "suspension of disbelief."

Originally posted by Disappear
to be honest, i dont even think claremont knows what electrolysis is. it is, however, when a finely controlled current is run through water to break it into oxygen and hydrogen. just releasing electricity into the water wouldn't have accomplished it, especially not to the effect of air bubbles forming under her armpits. but, it happened, i'll "suspend my disbelief."

Who said she just released an electric current in water?? It said she created an electrolysis field. Whatever that entails is what she created.

Electrolysis of water is what's called a redox reaction. This means that electrons are being moved from one molecule to another.

Im sure she could do that.

Originally posted by Disappear

if the average marble is approximately three milliliters in volume, and the average adult lung can hold two liters of air in one deep breath, it would take storm sucking in all the oxygen from 166,500 cubic miles to get one full breath. then she'd need to reach further for the next, because despite the vaccuum of space, and other remnants of oxygen could not possibly move into the same positions [across thousands of cubic miles] in enough time to replace the inhaled oxygen.

Who said she'd just create enough for one breath?? Again:"And the reason there isn't more is simply that the gravity of all the other various
celestial objects out there, including galaxies, has captured most of the
gas and dust."

She seem to have a constant supply by pulling it from the various celestial bodies.

Originally posted by Disappear

and how, exactly would she unbind the oxygen from the gravitational pull of stars? is gravity an element now? wouldn't the oxygen be burning off when reaching the stars? wouldn't any free-floating oxygen condense to a liquid or solid when gathered, given the bitter cold of space? in x-men 199, iceman mentioned that in temperatures even NEARING the bitter cold you'd find in space, you'd need to sip your oxygen instead of inhale it.

Easy

And again nothing "burns" in space.

About Oxygen burning in Stars:

Oxygen does sometimes combine with other elements in the outer atmospheres of stars. The outer atmospheres of red giants are cool enough for molecules to form, and we see absorption by eg. titanium oxide (TiO) in these stars. Even the Sun has shown evidence for the existence of molecules in its photosphere - astronomers studying sunspots have found evidence for the existence of trace amounts of water in these dark regions.

Both sunspots and red giant photospheres are much cooler than the outer atmosphere of the average star, which would be very much like the Sun. This is the key to answering your question. In order for oxygen to combine with other elements in a star's atmosphere, the physical conditions have to be right for the chemical reactions that are involved to take place. This means that the temperature has to be within a certain range. Except in certain cases - very cool red stars, or cool spots on the surface of stars - the atmosphere of a star is too hot for a chemical reaction to take place between oxygen and the other elements that are present.

[i]Originally posted by Disappear

if storm had some magic, science-defying power source like the power cosmic, i'd be fine with her doing whatever the **** she wants. but she doesn't. her powers are tied to the geological and meteorological phenomena in an atmosphere, and whatever crap rules that translates into in space. those are the physical laws of the universe. she's packaged pre-****ed for that type of "suspension of disbelief."

Well, that's what you have to work out for yourself. The PC doesn't really "defy" science since Ororo was able to rape Stardust because the energy is really just electrons.

Heralds do things that defy science, but so does everyone else.😬

If you can't understand how a character who can control the Earth's weather can coalesce an atmosphere for herself in a vacuum, but believe in the "magic" that is the power cosmic, then you're either stupid or bias😬, especially when said character can expand her powers to the above scan, and also to what we've recently seen in FF 545 and 546.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Excuses excuses. 🙄

Wow, Magneto and Polaris fly in a vacuum at whatever speed in an airtight bubble............ 😕

"Nature"/the elements in the sense of Ororo's powerset exist EVERYWHERE.

shocklaugh

The pure Oxygen thing only seems to deal with resuscitation.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Also, how can the power cosmic endow him with the ability to do anything?? How do you actually figure there are no parameters??

If he could do "anything", he'd//they'd be omnipotent.

There are almost no limitations on it. Basically just a matter of will to perform the feat. What few rules there seem to be; cannot raise the dead and cannot create life are the only two I can think of, can be contradicted as I recall Surfer turning bullets or guns into flowers. What a frickin' hippy.

You can travel through time, absorb undefined amounts of energy, replicate practically any energy, transmute, transcend dimensions, accelerate yourself past lightspeed (sometimes by entering hyperspace, sometimes just by hauling ass as fast as you can), possible resistance or immunity to telepathy. Create phenomena like black holes, identify types of energy just by looking at it (you can also see energy), and also identify at least energy related weaknesses in objects. If your body is fortified with it you can travel through the center of stars and dance on the black holes you yourself created just a few seconds ago.

Pretty much anything you can think of you can do with the Power Cosmic. It's almost identical to Green Lanterns except they have more rules and a different delivery system.

It sounds kind of boring but Surfer's a pacifist and I think most of his early stuff was more philosophical than anything else.

It's just much easier to branch of a powerset based on something completely undefinied like Power Cosmic than it is to branch off "weather control" to faster than light travel.

If they just took the shot and said it was all a specialized brand of electromagnetic control it would all make total sense.

Is Storm really that good?

i really dont see how a scan of storm shooting lightning explains her ability to siphon oxygen away from the immense gravitational pull of celestial bodies, namely stars.

the sun functions through some form of hydrogen fission, in which [i believe] helium is forcefully made into hydrogen, and the excess joules of energy from the reaction are released as heat and light. it's been several years since my last chemistry class in which that was discussed. and, in gaseous form, oxygen is flammable. so, considering your little quotation basically said our sun doesn't really allow oxygen to make other molecules, and does explain that a sun has a small "atmosphere" surrounding it, it does stand to reason that if oxygen were to be pulled in [by its immense gravitational pull] it would burn within the atmosphere of the sun.

the power cosmic exists in the marvel universe as a primary energy form that is derived from the infinite of the cosmos itself. for its entire existence, it has allowed those endowed with it to defy conventional sciences in performing their tasks. storm has an x-gene which connects her in some fashion to the natural order of the atmosphere and, apparently, space itself. ti doesn't let her defy physics, the relativistic effects of space-time, and everything else entailed by the doctrines of the universe. so, this "bias" you allege i propogate is really just an understanding of how the marvel universe functions, and why someone endowed with the power cosmic can do things someone NOT endowed with the power cosmic can not.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
The point is, nothing in Storm's powerset involves sending anything into high warp. Carrying air with you, as simple as it is, makes sense. I don't know how fast they fly, but that's not under scrutiny here.

There's nothing that says she can't😬

And again, depending on where they are, the Oxygen would be all around-- sparce free particles as well as one caught up in gravitaion of celestial bodies.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Not just that. Divers have to take careful considerations about their oxygen mixture as well because pressure has great sway on how toxic it is.

Are you talking about this:

Oxygen toxicity occurs when oxygen in the body exceeds a safe "partial pressure" (PPO2). In extreme cases it affects the central nervous system and causes a seizure, which can result in the diver spitting out his regulator and drowning. Oxygen toxicity is preventable provided one never exceeds the established maximum depth of a given breathing gas. For deep dives, (generally past 130 feet / 39 meters) "hypoxic blends" containing a lower percentage of oxygen than atmospheric air are used. For more information, see Oxygen toxicity.

The toxicity seems to deal with pressure differentials. Why couldn't she maintain an equilibrium in the enviroment she creates??

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
That's pretty much the case. "Omnipotent" though... it has that glaring loophole - Can he make a boulder so heavy not even he can lift it?

There are almost no limitations on it. Basically just a matter of will to perform the feat. What few rules there seem to be; cannot raise the dead and cannot create life are the only two I can think of, can be contradicted as I recall Surfer turning bullets or guns into flowers. What a frickin' hippy.

You can travel through time, absorb undefined amounts of energy, replicate practically any energy, transmute, transcend dimensions, accelerate yourself past lightspeed (sometimes by entering hyperspace, sometimes just by hauling ass as fast as you can), possible resistance or immunity to telepathy. Create phenomena like black holes, identify types of energy just by looking at it (you can also see energy), and also identify at least energy related weaknesses in objects. If your body is fortified with it you can travel through the center of stars and dance on the black holes you yourself created just a few seconds ago.

Pretty much anything you can think of you can do with the Power Cosmic. It's almost identical to Green Lanterns except they have more rules and a different delivery system.

It sounds kind of boring but Surfer's a pacifist and I think most of his early stuff was more philosophical than anything else.

It's just much easier to branch of a powerset based on something completely undefinied like Power Cosmic than it is to branch off "weather control" to faster than light travel.

If they just took the shot and said it was all a specialized brand of electromagnetic control it would all make total sense.

Cool.

Not really, though.

Ororo can view the universe in terms of energy, and move it with her mind to create various effects.

It's no different than what he does as far as a catalyst for their power. They have different results, but the same catalyst--manipulation of universal forces. rearranging molecules to form other elements is not really above and beyond and unexplainable. If you can move molecules with your mind, then, depending on power level, you can make other things out of other things.

The thing is, there is no scientific explainantion for how you can move things with your mind.(I think Surfer does it with his mind. I assume that's how mostly all characters do stuff)

Both Norrin and Ororo move energy/particles/atoms with their minds.

BOTH do things that are "metaphysical" and unexplainable by science, but the result is explainable--they move energy.-- Energy is the boss in the universe. HOW they do it is "comicbooky" and not "scientific".

Storm is little more metaphysical because even without her "powers"(her catalyst) she can still "feel" nature and stuff.

And again, if Storm can coalesce molecules/electrons/atoms with her mind on Earth, why can't she do it in space. It's all governed by pretty much the same energy patterns, rules, laws, whatever.

Ororo may very well psionically move and coalesce atoms as fast as she needs to, just as SS may go faster than light even though it's scienctifically impossible.

One is no more fanciful or impossible as the other, therfore Ororo can create an atmosphere if she so chooses the same way she can traverse thousands of miles in minutes with her winds.

Originally posted by Disappear
i really dont see how a scan of storm shooting lightning explains her ability to siphon oxygen away from the immense gravitational pull of celestial bodies, namely stars.

She's siphoning electrons form surrounding Celestial bodies to make the lightning.

Originally posted by Disappear
the sun functions through some form of hydrogen fission, in which [i believe] helium is forcefully made into hydrogen, and the excess joules of energy from the reaction are released as heat and light. it's been several years since my last chemistry class in which that was discussed. and, in gaseous form, oxygen is flammable. so, considering your little quotation basically said our sun doesn't really allow oxygen to make other molecules, and does explain that a sun has a small "atmosphere" surrounding it, it does stand to reason that if oxygen were to be pulled in [by its immense gravitational pull] it would burn within the atmosphere of the sun.

I read that nothing really burns. Hydrogen combines/fuses to form helium and other heavy elements like Oxygen. It's on an atomic level.

Originally posted by Disappear
the power cosmic exists in the marvel universe as a primary energy form that is derived from the infinite of the cosmos itself. for its entire existence, it has allowed those endowed with it to defy conventional sciences in performing their tasks. storm has an x-gene which connects her in some fashion to the natural order of the atmosphere and, apparently, space itself. ti doesn't let her defy physics, the relativistic effects of space-time, and everything else entailed by the doctrines of the universe. so, this "bias" you allege i propogate is really just an understanding of how the marvel universe functions, and why someone endowed with the power cosmic can do things someone NOT endowed with the power cosmic can not.

The very fact that she can manipulates atoms defies physics, just like Norrin

What's good for the goose.......

w00t

Originally posted by 2damnloud
There's nothing that says she can't😬

And again, depending on where they are, the Oxygen would be all around-- sparce free particles as well as one caught up in gravitaion of celestial bodies.

Are you talking about this:

Oxygen toxicity occurs when oxygen in the body exceeds a safe "partial pressure" (PPO2). In extreme cases it affects the central nervous system and causes a seizure, which can result in the diver spitting out his regulator and drowning. Oxygen toxicity is preventable provided one never exceeds the established maximum depth of a given breathing gas. For deep dives, (generally past 130 feet / 39 meters) "hypoxic blends" containing a lower percentage of oxygen than atmospheric air are used. For more information, see Oxygen toxicity.

The toxicity seems to deal with pressure differentials. Why couldn't she maintain an equilibrium in the enviroment she creates??

But to get a lungful of air, about half a liter, according to your quote you'd need to reach: 21% oxygen, that's 0.105 liters, and a marble takes up 1.02cm volume, or 0.00102 liters. So 0.105 / 0.00102 = 102.9 marbles to make up breathable percent of oxygen in a lungful of air.

If one marble is in a cube 5 miles to a side, 125 square miles, the amount of oxygen you'd need for a breath of air is in a cube 514.5 miles to a side, or... holy crap, over 136 million square miles.

Before you go on a tear about me "spending a lot of time" doing this to tear down a strong, proud black woman, or whatever garbage you might bring up, I do this kind of stuff for fun. I did the calculations for the Flash saving the villagers from the bomb too and that ain't "near light speed travel." Interesting stuff.

Also, if my math's screwed up somewhere, feel free to correct it, anyone. Or if you don't feel like it, I think we can agree it would be an incredible amount of space and much to wide to be of any use.

Cool.

Not really, though.

Ororo can view the universe in terms of energy, and move it with her mind to create various effects.

It's no different than what he does as far as a catalyst for their power. They have different results, but the same catalyst--manipulation of universal forces. rearranging molecules to form other elements is not really above and beyond and unexplainable. If you can move molecules with your mind, then, depending on power level, you can make other things out of other things.

The thing is, there is no scientific explainantion for how you can move things with your mind.(I think Surfer does it with his mind. I assume that's how mostly all characters do stuff)

Both Norrin and Ororo move energy/particles/atoms with their minds.

That's why Surfer can watch Thanos wave the Infinity Gauntlet from light years away. That's why Flash can fly through a village at thousands of times faster than the speed of light without tearing it up. That's why Wonder Woman is hot for a pile of animated clay. They work through mediums that don't abide by the laws of physics.

BOTH do things that are "metaphysical" and unexplainable by science, but the result is explainable--they move energy.-- Energy is the boss in the universe. HOW they do it is "comicbooky" and not "scientific"....

...And again, if Storm can coalesce molecules/electrons/atoms with her mind on Earth, why can't she do it in space. It's all governed by pretty much the same energy patterns, rules, laws, whatever.

Ororo may very well psionically move and coalesce atoms as fast as she needs to, just as SS may go faster than light even though it's scienctifically impossible.

One is no more fanciful or impossible as the other, therfore Ororo can create an atmosphere if she so chooses the same way she can traverse thousands of miles in minutes with her winds.

Also, you know you're using that "Good for the goose, good for the gander" saying wrong.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
And that's why you'd make a terrible writer.

Why?

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

"All around"? Celestial bodies are millions and/or billions of miles apart from each other.

Which is not a problem for her since she can so very easily siphon energy from solid planets and stars as seen in Uncanny 166.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Possibly. It was worded less tediously where I go it from. But having the right mixture isn't applicable in this situation. Maybe if mixing hydrogen with oxygen makes it alright to breathe.

But to get a lungful of air, about half a liter, according to your quote you'd need to reach: 21% oxygen, that's 0.105 liters, and a marble takes up 1.02cm volume, or 0.00102 liters. So 0.105 / 0.00102 = 102.9 marbles to make up breathable percent of oxygen in a lungful of air.

If one marble is in a cube 5 miles to a side, 125 square miles, the amount of oxygen you'd need for a breath of air is in a cube 514.5 miles to a side, or... holy crap, over 136 million square miles.

Again, Ororo can quite possibly accomplish this through manipulation of the insterllar atmosphere. She could get an abundance of Oxygen from all around as she did in Uncanny if push came to shove. Just because her powers don't have a name like "power cosmic" does not mean that she cannot do it when she's done similar things.

It's not just sparcely spread out Oxygen, it is Oxygen everywhere that is locked up in the gravity of different celestial bodies.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Before you go on a tear about me "spending a lot of time" doing this to tear down a strong, proud black woman, or whatever garbage you might bring up, I do this kind of stuff for fun. I did the calculations for the Flash saving the villagers from the bomb too and that ain't "near light speed travel." Interesting stuff.

Also, if my math's screwed up somewhere, feel free to correct it, anyone. Or if you don't feel like it, I think we can agree it would be an incredible amount of space and much to wide to be of any use.

You implicated yourself as a racist, not me 😎

You underestimate the power of Ororo.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Not a sci-fi fan?

He doesn't do it with his mind, it's the Power Cosmic. It's not something that's ever present in the universe. It's a primordial source of energy that must be tapped from its metaphorical location. But the very fact that Surfer and all the Power Cosmic users perform their feats through this unexplained force gives them the rights to do whatever they want purely because the Power Cosmic is not defined. It is not bound by the laws of physics and it covers ever conceivable angle in the case of broken physics.

So it doesn't take any cognition to do what a Herald does??

Cosmic, Cosmos, Cosmology= UNIVERSE.

Energy also= Universe

Primordial source= First source, or ancient

So they basically harness the ancient power of universe.

The bestower of the power Cosmic, Galactus represents balance in the universe. He eats the universe so to speak.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

That's why Surfer can watch Thanos wave the Infinity Gauntlet from light years away. That's why Flash can fly through a village at thousands of times faster than the speed of light without tearing it up. That's why Wonder Woman is hot for a pile of animated clay. They work through mediums that don't abide by the laws of physics.

As every other character.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

True, how Storm does things isn't scientifically possible but what she does still takes place in the "real" world bound by the "laws of physics". There is a level of leniency because it's fiction but you can only go so far before you sound like a fool. It's obvious Marvel tries to keep it quasi-legitimate, though most things come out as a grandiose version of its real world counterpart. A magic-like explanation is an excellent way around that. Every good story that needs it has it.

So, because meteorology is a science, and weather is observable, one who can manipulate the elements of Earth and intergalactic Elements with her mind can't coalesce a sustaining atmosphere of Oxygen in a vacuum because weather is observable and Meterology is a science??

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

That's an incredible claim but it's just not true. Nothing Storm has done is even close to how insanely imbalanced the Power Cosmic is. And you can interpret that travel feat any way you want.

It's true.

Because one is a "cooler"/more stupid power means nothing. Storm could still make an atmosphere if she so chooses. She's Mistress of the Elements(Fem version of "Master"😉Nuff said. There's no need for special plot device, name and all this other shit.

And she did travel a 1200 miles in a couple minutes, LITERALLY.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
Why?

Which is not a problem for her since she can so very easily siphon energy from solid planets and stars as seen in Uncanny 166.

Again, Ororo can quite possibly accomplish this through manipulation of the insterllar atmosphere. She could get an abundance of Oxygen from all around as she did in Uncanny if push came to shove. Just because her powers don't have a name like "power cosmic" does not mean that she cannot do it when she's done similar things.

It's not just sparcely spread out Oxygen, it is Oxygen everywhere that is locked up in the gravity of different celestial bodies.

You implicated yourself as a racist, not me 😎

You underestimate the power of Ororo.

So it doesn't take any cognition to do what a Herald does??

Cosmic, Cosmos, Cosmology= UNIVERSE.

Energy also= Universe

Primordial source= First source, or ancient

So they basically harness the ancient power of universe.

The bestower of the power Cosmic, Galactus represents balance in the universe. He eats the universe so to speak.

As every other character.

So, because meteorology is a science, and weather is observable, one who can manipulate the elements of Earth and intergalactically with her mind, can't coalesce a sustaining atmosphere of Oxygen in a vacuum because weather is observable and Meterology is a science??

But the problem, as I plainly stated in my previous post, in normal quantities, the amount of oxygen she'd need to get for one breath of air would require gathering the oxygen in an area just over 136 million square miles. Even if she had that kind of range she would have to accelerate the particles at faster than light speeds. For one, she's never demonstrated that ability, and two, that would destroy the atoms.

If she is near a planet, that obviously changes things.

It's true.

Because one is a "cooler"/more stupid power means nothing. Storm could still make an atmosphere if she so chooses. She's Mistress Nuff said. There's no need for special plot device name and all this other shit.

In 40 years, I've not seen one explanation as to how a feat performed by the Power Cosmic worked except for it being done "with the Power Cosmic!"

People not controlling weather in real life is no grounds for being more fanciful for a power that works purely "because it does" with no rhyme or reason how it works.

(Fem version of Master)

And she did travel a 1200 miles in a couple minutes, LITERALLY.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
Doing things purely on the grounds that there's nothing saying she can't. I could take a dump on my coffee table because there's nothing saying I can't, but it wouldn't make sense, just like your stories wouldn't make sense.

You did with the power cosmic. You basically said that since it is completely undefined manipulation of the universe that a Herald could do whatever they wanted.

Since it is a manipulation of the Cosmos, wouldn't utilization of said power also have to abide by the rules of the nature of the universe just as you're attempting to pigeon-hole Storm's power.

If "Power Cosmic" can suffice as an explanation for the feats, could not also "Mistress of the Elements" suffice as an explanation for Ororo's feats?

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

That's not the problem I'm referring to.

The distance of stars and planet's mattered not when Storm harvested their energy in Uncanny 166 while going lightspeed in the Acanti, or the fact that in Uncanny 99 she managed to manipulataed the Solar winds and "fly on them" who's speeds can reach between 750,000-1,500,000 mph(500 miles a second).

The distance doesn't really matter.

If "Power Cosmic" is enough for a Herald, then "Mistress of the Elements" enough for Ororo.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

When? That time you called me a racist? Possibly twice? If you mean in what I just said, I'm not implying myself a racist, I'm implying you're biased because she's black and/or a woman. If you knew my upbringing you'd know the chances of me being racist are incredibly minute, as hard as it may be to believe for some.

Don't think I've ever called you a racist.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

On the contrary, she's placed on a respectable level on my mental charts. I mean, it's all relative to what your basis of "power" is, but she's fairly high on the chart as a whole. Sounds kind of strange but one of my favorite characters is Q from Star Trek and it's hard to call anyone "powerful" by comparison.

Well, Good for her😱

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

No, not like every character. Characters who work with a "real world" medium have powers that are based on the laws of "real world" physics. Again, how they are able to accomplish this is pure fantasy but what they accomplish usually has roots in science. There are hundreds of instances of this in X-Men comics alone. Heralds' Power Cosmic doesn't have to answer to the laws of physics because it's not rooted in any science. Nor the Speed Force. And Wonder Woman's jazz is flat out magic.

Magic, Power Cosmic, Ororo are all examples of harnerssing the power of Nature/Universe

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

No, that's not the problem I'm referring to. As it turns out, according the only website I bothered reading, an mixture of hydrogen and oxygen is breathable at low enough depths, so that part is perfectly reasonable.

But the problem, as I plainly stated in my previous post, in normal quantities, the amount of oxygen she'd need to get for one breath of air would require gathering the oxygen in an area just over 136 million square miles. Even if she had that kind of range she would have to accelerate the particles at faster than light speeds. For one, she's never demonstrated that ability, and two, that would destroy the atoms.

If she is near a planet, that obviously changes things.

She's mistress of the Elements, she can do it.

Speed of light destroying atoms???

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Don't twist my words. He does control the Power Cosmic with his thoughts but the effect is not accomplished by psionic means.

Don't try twisting my words to mean something else, you know that's not what I meant.

It's not a matter of which is "more cool", but the stupidity of it means everything. Storm's ability to control weather patterns has been restated in probably every description of her powers ever printed and every feat described in caption, by herself, or by an onlooker with some psuedo-explanation as to how it worked scientifically.

In 40 years, I've not seen one explanation as to how a feat performed by the Power Cosmic worked except for it being done "with the Power Cosmic!"

People not controlling weather in real life is no grounds for being more fanciful for a power that works purely "because it does" with no rhyme or reason how it works.

She's mistress of the elements. Nuff said.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Keep telling yourself that.

It's true. No other way to interpret it. Hypersonic winds.

i'm pretty sure the reference you continue to bring up, in which she gets "physical and spiritual" sustenance from all the crap floating in the great beyond, wasn't an attempt to imply she's reaching out and taking it. it was more of an allusion to her "oneness" with "nature," as you might put it. it's really a flight of fancy to assume she's reaching across lightyears of space [the next-closest star to our sun is 4.3 light years away. that's 25,284,000,000,000 miles away. 25 and a quarter TRILLION miles away.] that's just the next closest, alpha centauri c. alpha centauri a and b are the next closest, and it goes on for light years and light years after that. they DO project light, however, which reaches at at only the speed of light. for storm to be taking from them, instead of utilizing what little they give off, she'd literally be reaching dozens of light years in every direction, snatching up the matter, and rushing it to her at warp speeds. you do realize how utterly ridiculous of an assumption you're making, especially when you're basing it entirely on the usage of a word.

also, i'll point out that the scan you provided does not say where the lightning is coming from, and your assumption that she's stealing electrons from stars is merely an assumption. the marvel universe is full of what are called "free-floating electrons," utilized primarily by various elementals and blackbolt. whether this phenomena exists in the real world, i don't know. but your assumption that she's stealing from the stars isn't based on anything concrete, and could be just as easily explained away as her harnessing these free-floating electrons

Originally posted by Disappear
i'm pretty sure the reference you continue to bring up, in which she gets "physical and spiritual" sustenance from all the crap floating in the great beyond, wasn't an attempt to imply she's reaching out and taking it. it was more of an allusion to her "oneness" with "nature," as you might put it. it's really a flight of fancy to assume she's reaching across lightyears of space [the next-closest star to our sun is 4.3 light years away. that's 25,284,000,000,000 miles away. 25 and a quarter TRILLION miles away.] that's just the next closest, alpha centauri c. alpha centauri a and b are the next closest, and it goes on for light years and light years after that. they DO project light, however, which reaches at at only the speed of light. for storm to be taking from them, instead of utilizing what little they give off, she'd literally be reaching dozens of light years in every direction, snatching up the matter, and rushing it to her at warp speeds. you do realize how utterly ridiculous of an assumption you're making, especially when you're basing it entirely on the usage of a word.

also, i'll point out that the scan you provided does not say where the lightning is coming from, and your assumption that she's stealing electrons from stars is merely an assumption. the marvel universe is full of what are called "free-floating electrons," utilized primarily by various elementals and blackbolt. whether this phenomena exists in the real world, i don't know. but your assumption that she's stealing from the stars isn't based on anything concrete, and could be just as easily explained away as her harnessing these free-floating electrons

Damn, this is so weak I don't even think I'll look bad by not ripping this shit to shredsshocklaugh

yeah. rationalizing something so as to make it less grandiose than the ideas you've tried to pass as fact. that's weak. damn me and my damn facts.

rip away, captain.

Originally posted by Disappear
yeah. rationalizing something so as to make it less grandiose than the ideas you've tried to pass as fact. that's weak. damn me and my damn facts.

rip away, captain.

Originally posted by 2damnloud
You did with the power cosmic. You basically said that since it is completely undefined manipulation of the universe that a Herald could do whatever they wanted.

Since it is a manipulation of the Cosmos, wouldn't utilization of said power also have to abide by the rules of the nature of the universe just as you're attempting to pigeon-hole Storm's power.

Her powers are based on logical events, as are hundreds, if not thousands, of characters. She is not in the class of characters whose powers are based on "magic" or reality manipulation. Simple as that.

If "Power Cosmic" can suffice as an explanation for the feats, could not also "Mistress of the Elements" suffice as an explanation for Ororo's feats?

The distance of stars and planet's mattered not when Storm harvested their energy in Uncanny 166 while going lightspeed in the Acanti, or the fact that in Uncanny 99 she managed to manipulataed the Solar winds and "fly on them" who's speeds can reach between 750,000-1,500,000 mph(500 miles a second).

The distance doesn't really matter.

If "Power Cosmic" is enough for a Herald, then "Mistress of the Elements" enough for Ororo.

Don't think I've ever called you a racist.

Well, Good for her😱

Magic, Power Cosmic, Ororo are all examples of harnerssing the power of Nature/Universe

She's mistress of the Elements, she can do it.

Speed of light destroying atoms???

She's mistress of the elements. Nuff said.

It's true. No other way to interpret it. Hypersonic winds.

when i was a kid, i had a "master of disaster" sweater, with the lettering offset and sitting on top of an exploding volcano. i eventually outgrew it, and my mom gave it to my uncle, who gave it to his son. kevin, my cousin who received the sweater, is three years older than me, but wore the sweater until he was eighteen.

true story. he also was somehow able to tear down a skyscraper, despite being the size of a burgeoning adolescent, after he got the sweater. funny how those things work out.

Originally posted by Disappear
when i was a kid, i had a "master of disaster" sweater, with the lettering offset and sitting on top of an exploding volcano. i eventually outgrew it, and my mom gave it to my uncle, who gave it to his son. kevin, my cousin who received the sweater, is three years older than me, but wore the sweater until he was eighteen.

true story. he also was somehow able to tear down a skyscraper, despite being the size of a burgeoning adolescent, after he got the sweater. funny how those things work out.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna
I know, it's goofy isn't it.

It was goofy.--"She can't do it because it's too far"shocklaugh

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

No, because one of the defining properties of Power Cosmic is it can do anything. There is no "there's nothing saying it can't do this" because it CAN do that. What the crap? "Pigeon-hole Storm's power"?

Ok, again, by who's deifnition?

I could use the "potential doesn't equate to actually doing" argument.

Just because the wielder appears to be able to do "anything", does not mean they can.

And you're pigeon-holing her for the simple reason that Meterology is an actual "science" in the "real world" and this somehow equates to her not being able to coalesce an enviroment for herself in space, because "Psionic control over the elements" is not a plot device like "Power Cosmic", which by you're interpretaion allows the wielder to do "anything".

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

Her powers are based on logical events, as are hundreds, if not thousands, of characters. She is not in the class of characters whose powers are based on "magic" or reality manipulation. Simple as that.

"Magic", Power Cosmic, reality manipulation is just harnessing the powers of the Universe to do what you need to do.

You could probably ask any "Wicca" what "Magic" is and they'll probably tell you "submit yourself to a higher power, harnessing the power of nature/the universe" whatever whatever.

Religion/prayer is in essence "Magic"--praying to God to change certain things in your life/the world.

Ororo and her "Bright Lady" harnessing the power of the universe/nature to affect weather/elements whether Cosmic or intra-Earth/Intra-planetary.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

For the same reason "explosives" can tear down a building but "Master of Disaster" doesn't let me rip down a skyscraper with my bare hands. One is an actual thing and the other is a title. Possible also given to herself.

🙄 With this line of thinking you'll never get it.

Power Cosmic enables it's wielder to do "anything" through purely seeminlgy endless potential, "Mistress of the Elements" should at least enble Storm to do so, when she's already done similar.

Originally posted by Swanky-Tuna

When she was one with the space slug? Chances are she was enhanced by it. Did it ever give a mph on her flight? Or did you just assume she was flying at that speed because a nuclear reaction on a star can make it go that fast?

Yea, because she couldn;t have possibly done it because.....uhhhhh.........no plot device or corny-ass name like "Power Cosmic" 😕 . It's just her manipulating the powers of the Universe with her mind. 🙄