Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There are a lot of people you don't know. And much about them.The fact that ''if you are religious you MUST be a homophobe, and if you are an atheist you certainly cannot be one'' is oversimplified and simply untrue.
I never said all religious people are homophobes, I believe in God myself, and I also happen to know plenty of religious people that do not hate gays.
However I don't know any homophobes that hate gays for reasons other then religious one's.. Now you are right I don't know the entire world so there might be a lot of homophobes that don't have religious reasons, that doesn't mean however that the majority of homophobes are religious extremists...
Originally posted by Robtard
What makes them factually gay though? Two males raising a child together doesn't equal homosexuality. Tom Selleck, Ted Danson and Steve Gutthenburg must have been gay characters then...
Probably them having sex together
Originally posted by Robtard
The story didn't mention anything about "having sex"; the vast majority of male birds do not have penises, are they rubbing their genital openings together in a mating like ritual?
I would assume so, I'm no expert on flamingo's but I would assume people would be sure that these birds are gay before they would be called gay.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
Ive never met or known of anyone who hates gays for reasons other than religious. Fred Phelps is your quintessential homophobe.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
There are a lot of people you don't know. And much about them.
''I don't know'' and ''I have never heard'' is simply not an argument. Ignorance is not an excuse and certainly not a claim.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
''I don't know'' and ''I have never heard'' is simply not an argument. Ignorance is not an excuse and certainly not a claim.
Originally posted by backdoorman
the great majority of homophobes are so because of religious beliefs.
Where did that conclusion come from then? Do you have numbers, statistics, research?
Where did ''great majority'' claim come from? Do you know the numbers of homophobes per 1000 people? Even approximately?
If not, my earlier post applies to you as well.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
''I don't know'' and ''I have never heard'' is simply not an argument. Ignorance is not an excuse and certainly not a claim.
Like backdoorman said the fast majority of homophobes are religious people.
Just look at the religious nations in the world, Poland who refuses to admit homosexuality is normal, Russia where the Russian Orthodox church has a huge powerbase that the Russian people would attack the Gay pride parade, must Muslim nations where Homosexuality is not accepted. And in the more extreme country's punishable. In Spain where the catholics made a huge protest when gay marriage was allowed, in Italy where people are protesting a law that would make it possible for two gay man to live together as partners. In the US where gay marriage is heavily protested as well, by the religious right.
There might be people out there who don't hate gays because of religious reasons but because of other reasons, but the fast majority doesn't. And really arguing about a few exceptions is really useless.
Originally posted by Fishy
Like backdoorman said the fast majority of homophobes are religious people.Just look at the religious nations in the world, Poland who refuses to admit homosexuality is normal, Russia where the Russian Orthodox church has a huge powerbase that the Russian people would attack the Gay pride parade, must Muslim nations where Homosexuality is not accepted. And in the more extreme country's punishable. In Spain where the catholics made a huge protest when gay marriage was allowed, in Italy where people are protesting a law that would make it possible for two gay man to live together as partners. In the US where gay marriage is heavily protested as well, by the religious right.
There might be people out there who don't hate gays because of religious reasons but because of other reasons, but the fast majority doesn't. And really arguing about a few exceptions is really useless.
What people in this thread claim, is that majority of all homophobes are religious people, and seeing how you most probably do not have any research or even a guess on how many homophobes there are, even roughly, you CANNOT make that claim.
All you can do, is reinstate that Church hates homosexuals - that however excludes any religious people, who are either homosexuals, or do not believe in persecution of homosexuals.
AND it excludes people who are Atheists and homophobes.
There are 1.1 billion atheists. I think you or anyone else in this thread will have hard time proving or even claiming that of 1.1 billion people none are homophobes - since being Atheists they have no bases to be one.
That also, is untrue.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Where did that conclusion come from then? Do you have numbers, statistics, research?Where did ''great majority'' claim come from? Do you know the numbers of homophobes per 1000 people? Even approximately?
If not, my earlier post applies to you as well.
Originally posted by backdoorman
Keywords "it would seem" and "implies". Look at the political opposition gay rights get in the western world, its virtually all religious. No I do not have statistics but I dare you to find three influential secular political organizations in the United States or Britain that are fighting against gay rights.
Who said anything about political groups or organizations for that matter?
It is irrelevant. Political system of USA have terrorist tendencies, but that means ZERO in regards to the actual people of USA.
Being a homophobe is a personal feeling. Telling me that ''there are influential groups in America (like America is the centre of the world)'' means nothing again.
America does not mean world, and we're speaking in a global, general terms.
You still fail to prove that majority of homophobes are religious. 1.1 billion atheists in the world - and and not a homophobe amongs them.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Who said anything about political groups or organizations for that matter?It is irrelevant. Political system of USA have terrorist tendencies, but that means ZERO in regards to the actual people of USA.
Being a homophobe is a personal feeling. Telling me that ''there are influential groups in America (like America is the centre of the world)'' means nothing again.
America does not mean world, and we're speaking in a global, general terms.
You still fail to prove that majority of homophobes are religious. 1.1 billion atheists in the world - and and not a homophobe amongs them.
Again there might be homophobes amongst them but how many of them do you know? Can you name one?
It's easy to name dozens if not hundreds of homophobes that are so because of religious reasons.
Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Who said anything about political groups or organizations for that matter?It is irrelevant. Political system of USA have terrorist tendencies, but that means ZERO in regards to the actual people of USA.
Being a homophobe is a personal feeling. Telling me that ''there are influential groups in America (like America is the centre of the world)'' means nothing again.
America does not mean world, and we're speaking in a global, general terms.
You still fail to prove that majority of homophobes are religious. 1.1 billion atheists in the world - and and not a homophobe amongs them.
Now, if ALL political organizations that are against gay rights in country X are religious, it certainly says something about the general public in country X. It doesn't provide a specific and detailed picture but it does provide a very rough sketch.
You still fail to prove that majority of homophobes are religious. 1.1 billion atheists in the world - and and not a homophobe amongs them.
Finally, please do tell where I said there was proof the majority of homophobes are Christian.
Originally posted by Fishy
Again there might be homophobes amongst them but how many of them do you know? Can you name one?It's easy to name dozens if not hundreds of homophobes that are so because of religious reasons.
Soho nail bomb, dropped in a gay bar in London, work of Neo-Nazis. Killed dozens of people. No religion involved.
The point is (I waited too long for this) that there has been research done on the boys in schools particularly and the homophobia.
Today, it appears that homophobia, and ''beatings'' of boys suspected of homophobia comes from the hyper-masculinity of many societies today.
But this study was carried out only in Sweden and England.
Beating up someone, or bullying someone for being homosexual, or suspecting to be a homosexual, is also a defence mechanism in assuring that you yourself will not be bullied or beaten up, as beating a homosexual shows that you are a ''real man''.
Religion is a stale reason for homophobia. There are far more sinister and reasons for being a homophobe, that ''religious people are homophobic'' simply takes the eyes away from the real issues.
Homophobia is a SOCIAL problem. And it will NOT go away if we remove religion. That thinking is a just looking for a simple solution to an extremely complicated problem.
There are a lot of people who are not homophobic because of religion, but because of numerous other socially related pressures.
A nail bomb incident in Soho in a gay bar, was a responsibility of Neo-Nazi group, who targest, black, asians and homosexuals.
Conclusion then IS, that you cannot simply point to religion and sing ''homophobes'' because reality is not that simple, and there are brutal atheists who will do brutal things to homosexuals. Ignoring that will not make it go away.
Not to mention that you simply ignored the homosexuals who get abused and beaten, sometimes killed by members of their own family - nothing to do with religion, but with ''shame''.
Originally posted by backdoorman
You plead temporary blindness where I said "western world" and "Britain"?Now, if ALL political organizations that are against gay rights in country X are religious, it certainly says something about the general public in country X. It doesn't provide a specific and detailed picture but it does provide a very rough sketch.
Yes, that is precisely what I said, isn't it? "There is not a single homophobe among Atheists." yeah...
Finally, please do tell where I said there was proof the majority of homophobes are Christian.
Have I mentioned Christians? I don't think so. Freudian slip by you? Perhaps.