Gay Flamingos Become Proud Parents

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Soho nail bomb, dropped in a gay bar in London, work of Neo-Nazis. Killed dozens of people. No religion involved.

The point is (I waited too long for this) that there has been research done on the boys in schools particularly and the homophobia.

Today, it appears that homophobia, and ''beatings'' of boys suspected of homophobia comes from the hyper-masculinity of many societies today.
But this study was carried out only in Sweden and England.

Beating up someone, or bullying someone for being homosexual, or suspecting to be a homosexual, is also a defence mechanism in assuring that you yourself will not be bullied or beaten up, as beating a homosexual shows that you are a ''real man''.

Religion is a stale reason for homophobia. There are far more sinister and reasons for being a homophobe, that ''religious people are homophobic'' simply takes the eyes away from the real issues.

Homophobia is a SOCIAL problem. And it will NOT go away if we remove religion. That thinking is a just looking for a simple solution to an extremely complicated problem.

There are a lot of people who are not homophobic because of religion, but because of numerous other socially related pressures.

A nail bomb incident in Soho in a gay bar, was a responsibility of Neo-Nazi group, who targest, black, asians and homosexuals.

Conclusion then IS, that you cannot simply point to religion and sing ''homophobes'' because reality is not that simple, and there are brutal atheists who will do brutal things to homosexuals. Ignoring that will not make it go away.

Not to mention that you simply ignored the homosexuals who get abused and beaten, sometimes killed by members of their own family - nothing to do with religion, but with ''shame''.

And where do you think that these feelings come from? It's the church and the mosque that started spreading believes that homosexuality is wrong in the first place. People may not go to church anymore but they still have the feelings they have against homosexuals because of the morale values the church put on us years ago.

That doesn't mean that there aren't any religious people out there that accept homosexuals, a great deal of them does. In some country's the majority in other country's it's the opposite. One Neo-Nazi group who in spirit of Nazism are often religious attacking a group of gays does not even come close to the amount of people in religious groups that hate gays without Nazism.

The entire social issue you speak of was created by religions and is kept up by religions, if the Pope would come out and say he had a vision where God told him gays were good that would solve a hell of a lot. In the end the church created it, and in the country's with the strongest anti-gay movements it are the churches or the imams leading the protests against gay rights.

Those school kids beating somebody up is a small result, but not that important kids beat kids up because they are different. Kids are cruel but they will likely grow out of their homophobic behavior unless they can continue to have a reason. And the most likely reason is upbringing, extreme Christian or Muslim upbringing.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Have I mentioned Christians? I don't think so. Freudian slip by you? Perhaps.

Originally posted by backdoorman
You plead temporary blindness where I said "western world" and "Britain"?

Now, if ALL political organizations that are against gay rights in country X are religious, it certainly says something about the general public in country X. It doesn't provide a specific and detailed picture but it does provide a very rough sketch.

Yes, that is precisely what I said, isn't it? "There is not a single homophobe among Atheists." yeah...

Finally, please do tell where I said there was proof the majority of homophobes are Christian.

Much like Fishy, all you're saying is that church and religious groups don't like homosexuals. We all know that. What is it ''new'' that you're claiming?

You're also implying that if there was not religion, there would not be homophobia - which is just simply untrue.

Originally posted by Fishy
And where do you think that these feelings come from? It's the church and the mosque that started spreading believes that homosexuality is wrong in the first place. People may not go to church anymore but they still have the feelings they have against homosexuals because of the morale values the church put on us years ago.

That doesn't mean that there aren't any religious people out there that accept homosexuals, a great deal of them does. In some country's the majority in other country's it's the opposite. One Neo-Nazi group who in spirit of Nazism are often religious attacking a group of gays does not even come close to the amount of people in religious groups that hate gays without Nazism.

The entire social issue you speak of was created by religions and is kept up by religions, if the Pope would come out and say he had a vision where God told him gays were good that would solve a hell of a lot. In the end the church created it, and in the country's with the strongest anti-gay movements it are the churches or the imams leading the protests against gay rights.

Those school kids beating somebody up is a small result, but not that important kids beat kids up because they are different. Kids are cruel but they will likely grow out of their homophobic behavior unless they can continue to have a reason. And the most likely reason is upbringing, extreme Christian or Muslim upbringing.

And yet again, you absolutely ignored my comment of the scrutany of gay people by their family members, out of ''shame''.

People don't wake up one day when they're no longer in school and proclaim they are homosexuals. Their feelings are not all of a sudden born after they left school. Scrutinizing begins there, and so does fear, and the research gave reasons as to WHY.

Nor are the kids who leave school all of a sudden like ''well what I did was wrong, I love homosexuals''.

Homophobia is entrenched everywhere - like a plague. You working, but not receiving equal treatment, sly comments and looks, intimidation, and all around hostility which is almost unnoticable, is all homophobia.

Homophobia is not just some crazy religious/fanatic/neo-nazi group giving a speech.

That kind of homophobia is easy to stamp. Its there. Its visible. Few morons waving their books around.

If that was only what the homophobia entailed, I don't think we'd have these kinds of problems. It is the one which is not visible, which is entrenched into the very system of society which one needs to work to eliminate.

If you believe that men created religion, then men created hostility towards homosexuals.

Hostility existed BEFORE religion, HENCE it was incroprated into it.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
[B]And yet again, you absolutely ignored my comment of the scrutany of gay people by their family members, out of ''shame''.

Yet again? I didn't address it specifically once, big deal. The rest of my post still applied to this. Family's that are ashamed because their children are gay are so because they live in a place where extreme religious morales are common. Whether they are religious or not doesn't really matter, they wouldn't have hated gays if they weren't raised religious.

People don't wake up one day when they're no longer in school and proclaim they are homosexuals. Their feelings are not all of a sudden born after they left school. Scrutinizing begins there, and so does fear, and the research gave reasons as to WHY.

Who ever claimed it did? I personally believe gays are born as gay. But that is completely irrelevant isn't it? Children will be picked on all the time, it's just the way the world works. It's what children do to feel better. It's easy to pick on people, especially when you think you are better then them or when you think that their behavior is unnatural. Which comes from religious idea's.

Nor are the kids who leave school all of a sudden like ''well what I did was wrong, I love homosexuals''.

No they aren't, but they will usually grow to be more accepting them around them, if their community is. Which is the case in most country's not ruled by religious nut jobs or overrun by them.

Homophobia is entrenched everywhere - like a plague. You working, but not receiving equal treatment, sly comments and looks, intimidation, and all around hostility which is almost unnoticable, is all homophobia.

Homophobia is not just some crazy religious/fanatic/neo-nazi group giving a speech.

That kind of homophobia is easy to stamp. Its there. Its visible. Few morons waving their books around.

If that was only what the homophobia entailed, I don't think we'd have these kinds of problems. It is the one which is not visible, which is entrenched into the very system of society which one needs to work to eliminate.

Which can be done by stepping away from the teachings of the church. Almost every country in the world that has problems with homosexuality has so because of religious groups in the country. The way to change the general opinions about gays is to take away the biggest factors that create hate against them. The religious groups. IF they were to say homosexuality isn't wrong, that it's normal that God doesn't hate gays and that we misinterpret the bible it would remove a lot of problems.

Yes you are right problems would continue to exist, it's part of our culture but that will change overtime with enough hard work. What you are doing is ignoring the reason why people hate homosexuals in the first place.

If you believe that men created religion, then men created hostility towards homosexuals.

Hostility existed BEFORE religion, HENCE it was incroprated into it.

Yes men created hostility towards homosexuality, they did this through religion. Does that make the churches in this world innocent? Of course not, they are still responsible for what they preach, if a church moves away from those points then there is no real danger anymore, if they continue to preach their bullshit then the problem will only continue.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Much like Fishy, all you're saying is that church and religious groups don't like homosexuals. We all know that. What is it ''new'' that you're claiming?

You're also implying that if there was not religion, there would not be homophobia - which is just simply untrue.

You're also implying that if there was not religion, there would not be homophobia - which is just simply untrue.

I have met homophobes that observe few, if any, religious traditions....except homophobia.

I think the reason so many people on here want to lump religion and homophobia is because so many people who hate gays are using religion as a mental refuge for their hatred. They couldn't give two shits about their religion. (a religion they haven't really practiced since their mothers dressed them up on Sunday afternoon and made them go to church) They are only looking for a justification for their hatred.

When backed into a corner, religion is really the only excuse they can throw out without refute, because there is little logic needed to fall back on religious doctrine.

And how is this possible? Because many religions spew this doctrine of ignorance that allows them refuge.

There are many christians, muslims and Jews that have abandoned those aspects of their faiths that allow for this type of blind hatred, as they have done over the centuries with a number of their outdated religous beliefs. But, on the other hand, there are a large number of those faithful that refuse to realize that religious doctrine can be updated and tweaked to get the point of their faith across without all the needless baggage of hatred.

Originally posted by Devil King
There are many christians, muslims and Jews that have abandoned those aspects of their faiths that allow for this type of blind hatred, as they have done over the centuries with a number of their outdated religous beliefs. But, on the other hand, there are a large number of those faithful that refuse to realize that religious doctrine can be updated and tweaked to get the point of their faith across without all the needless baggage of hatred.

👆

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Why does every gay discussion eventually turns into religion discussion? Get over it.
There are non-religious homophobes.

And?

It's not like the pro-homo people turn it into a religious debate alone, now is it?

It makes kinda sense...seeing as ... well...most homophobes [all that voice their opinion] on here are indeed religious...what is your point? Really?

Some people might just not like gays, much like some people just don't like stupid people.

The vast majority of gay haters I have met and/or heard have used religion as a 'reason' for their hatred. As Devil King pointed out, are they factually religious or just using religion as a means to rationalize their irrational bigotry... I'll never know. I'm willing to "bet $6.00 dollars and my left nut" that most people in here have had similar experiences with people when it comes to "homophobia" and the reasoning used behind it.

Originally posted by Devil King
I think the reason so many people on here want to lump religion and homophobia is because so many people who hate gays are using religion as a mental refuge for their hatred. They couldn't give two shits about their religion. (a religion they haven't really practiced since their mothers dressed them up on Sunday afternoon and made them go to church) They are only looking for a justification for their hatred.

Exactly. 👆

....

All those people who create little groups like ''most homophobes are religious'' searching for some other group to point to - to distance from themselves and point like -

''look at me, I am not religious, thus I am not homophobic''

If you have a outright religious person, saying ''homosexuality is bad'' at least you know how you can deal with that. Its right there, in front of you.

If you have sly people, who look for someone else to point at in order for them to feel like they cannot be called homophobic are those who I dislike the most. Not just on here, but in real life especially.

Those are the same people who say things like:

''I have nothing against homosexuals''

Like homosexuals waited for their approval or something, and now they will clap and congratulate them for saying they have nothing against them.

Religious or not, there is still these sick superiority and the feeling that gays wait for their approval for being gay, and that they will be celebrated as 'friends of gays'' because THEY have nothing against homosexuals.

These people do not wish to understand homophobia, nor how it must be stopped - all they're concerned about is not being called a homophobe.

As I said previously, if it was only religious people homosexuals had problems with, that would cut down homophobia increasingly, and would give a complete and straight answer as to whom to target in regards to educating.
Reality is not that simple, and making it simple, is overlooking the real important issues.

Originally posted by Robtard
The vast majority of gay haters I have met and/or heard have used religion as a 'reason' for their hatred. As Devil King pointed out, are they factually religious or just using religion as a means to rationalize their irrational bigotry... I'll never know. I'm willing to "bet $6.00 dollars and my left nut" that most people in here have had similar experiences with people when it comes to "homophobia" and the reasoning used behind it.

See people I met mostly, talk about homosexuals as not being ''real men'' and that they should be treated as that 'not real men'. (beaten)

Others were saying things like 'they are psychologically damaged / retarded''.

Some were saying that they were disgusting for the reason that they like the same sex, which is not normal.

Other excuse is homosexuality is abnormal because we were meant to reproduce and continue our speicies.

Others say that homosexuals will make other people think homosexuality is ok.

Most popular answer is that they are sick - so far.

Maybe because we live in different areas of the world.

[QUOTE=]Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Exactly. 👆

....

All those people who create little groups like ''most homophobes are religious'' searching for some other group to point to - to distance from themselves and point like -

''look at me, I am not religious, thus I am not homophobic''

If you have a outright religious person, saying ''homosexuality is bad'' at least you know how you can deal with that. Its right there, in front of you.

If you have sly people, who look for someone else to point at in order for them to feel like they cannot be called homophobic are those who I dislike the most. Not just on here, but in real life especially.

Those are the same people who say things like:

''I have nothing against homosexuals''

Like homosexuals waited for their approval or something, and now they will clap and congratulate them for saying they have nothing against them.

Religious or not, there is still these sick superiority and the feeling that gays wait for their approval for being gay, and that they will be celebrated as 'friends of gays'' because THEY have nothing against homosexuals.

These people do not wish to understand homophobia, nor how it must be stopped - all they're concerned about is not being called a homophobe.

As I said previously, if it was only religious people homosexuals had problems with, that would cut down homophobia increasingly, and would give a complete and straight answer as to whom to target in regards to educating.
Reality is not that simple, and making it simple, is overlooking the real important issues. [/QUOTE]

Y-you know that Eis, the guy you debated with....is actually gay, right?

Hardly fits your little group you just made up.

But it really doesn't matter, as the answer to the initial question is easily answered as it is a fact that on KMC the outspoken part of the anti-homosexual movement is Religious.

It ends that way not because everyone wants to just discuss the Religious aspects, but because that is the aspects that are used as arguments from that side.

If someone sometime should bring up secular reasons only why homosexuality is wrong, it will be discussed by those standards, just....that never happens here.

Originally posted by Devil King
I think the reason so many people on here want to lump religion and homophobia is because so many people who hate gays are using religion as a mental refuge for their hatred. They couldn't give two shits about their religion. (a religion they haven't really practiced since their mothers dressed them up on Sunday afternoon and made them go to church) They are only looking for a justification for their hatred.

There are many christians, muslims and Jews that have abandoned those aspects of their faiths that allow for this type of blind hatred, as they have done over the centuries with a number of their outdated religous beliefs. But, on the other hand, there are a large number of those faithful that refuse to realize that religious doctrine can be updated and tweaked to get the point of their faith across without all the needless baggage of hatred.

Religious doctrine can be updated. Religious truth, however, cannot. You'll find that any "outdated" religious beliefs espoused by Christianity were not, in fact, biblical at all.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Unlike Sithsabre...he hates gays.

I don't think Sithsabre hates gays. I think he thinks he should, and that his religion tells him that they deserve less than equal treatment and consideration by the law.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Religious doctrine can be updated. Religious truth, however, cannot. You'll find that any "outdated" religious beliefs espoused by Christianity were not, in fact, biblical at all.

Is the Torah a part of the christian Bible?

Originally posted by Devil King
I don't think Sithsabre hates gays. I think he thinks he should, and that his religion tells him that they deserve less than equal treatment and consideration by the law.

Why do you say that?

Is the Torah a part of the christian Bible?

Originally posted by FeceMan
*Rubs his temples.*

Why do you say that?

That's what I've gathered about him from his posts. Compare the two of you. You're religious, but you don't hate gay people. You even realize that a couple of the stories from the bible that are used to propagate the notion that god hates gays are misinterpreted. Well, he's one of those people who takes the bible as literally as it's explained to him by his minister and fellow bible thumpers. I'm so hard on him because he's being willfully ignorant. (plus that crap about my dad molesting me when I was a baby)

Originally posted by FeceMan
Yes...

Good.

Originally posted by Devil King
That's what I've gathered about him from his posts. Compare the two of you. You're religious, but you don't hate gay people. You even realize that a couple of the stories from the bible that are used to propagate the notion that god hates gays are misinterpreted. Well, he's one of those people who takes the bible as literally as it's explained to him by his minister and fellow bible thumpers. I'm so hard on him because he's being willfully ignorant. (plus that crap about my dad molesting me when I was a baby)

Secondly, any true Christian--blasted Calvinists--will say that God loves gays even if they believe that homosexuality is a sin.

Good.

Originally posted by FeceMan
First of all, those verses aren't stories. Whether you believe the Bible as being the Word of God or not, the Law is merely a set of rulings for the Jewish people.

I was talking about sodom and gomorrah.

Originally posted by FeceMan
Secondly, any true Christian--blasted Calvinists--will say that God loves gays even if they believe that homosexuality is a sin.

I'm not talking about god loving the sinner. I'm talking about you.

Originally posted by FeceMan
*Scratches his head.*

There's a lot of crap in the old testament that a lot of people took seriously for a very long time.