Originally posted by llagrokThere's a world of difference between being able to manipulate something.
If he has universal scale reality warping, how can he not create a universe?
And being able to create something
No matter how good you are at manipulating something creation of that thing is still a seperate ability. And still requires on panel proof that you can.
Originally posted by llagrok
He's been shown to create parts of a universe. I know he can create one.Human Torch and Pyro, wow, nice example.
Pyro has been shown to be able to manipulate fire, he can not create it.
Give me some on panel proof of him creating a universe, not merely controling one that might have been already there. Cause that's all he's got so far.
Originally posted by llagrok
He's been shown to create parts of a universe.
Yea, Jamie Created from nothingness "MUCH of that Reality" (Universe) On Panel, and in his Bio,
while Phoenix has never even created a Galaxy, heck not even a Solar System.
IMO, (based on facts)
Pound for pound Jamie's done more.
They both can control a Universe, but Jamie can Create "MUCH" of a Universe
while Phoenix has never even create a Solar System.
Originally posted by Mr MasterAnd you're stilltrying to play up his feats by downplaying the phoenix.
Yea, Jamie Created from nothingness "MUCH of that Reality" (Universe) On Panel, and in his Bio,while Phoenix has never even created a Galaxy, heck not even a Solar System.
IMO, (based on facts)
Pound for pound Jamie's done more.
They both can control a Universe, but Jamie can Create "MUCH" of a Universe
while Phoenix has never even create a Solar System.
And yes she created a universe. She created the "Here comes tomorrow universe by seperating it from 616. So if you want to play up feats two can still play at that game. Since "Here comes tomorrow" isn't 616, and it was Jean who forced a a seperation of it from 616. I can claim that she created a universe. By going back in time(!) and forcing Scott to stay with Emma she forced a new universe into creation.
🙄
Originally posted by llagrok
He's been shown to create parts of a universe.
Also,
that Universe must have been a pocket universe, which Jamie then expanded into a Universe,
it's the only reasonable explanation behind the Bio stating Jamie Created "Much of that Reality"
This makes sense,
when Kitty tried to return to that Universe through Widget's Dimensional Gate that was functioning 100% only moments before, she was unable to return, there was nothing on the other side.
Actually, taking Jamie's Bio into account, the Gate must've been place in a part of the Universe that was created by Jamie, therefore when Kitty tried to use the Gate, the specific destination it lead to was erased when 616 Jamie feel asleep.
Widget's Gate was outside of that Alternate Realitie's City where the Dirty AAngels were from, so Widget's Gate, not working, had NOTHING to do with the Dirty Angels' City disappearing.
You know that's kind of pathetic to respond to my points by quoting some one else to keep up the fascade of you being done with me. 🙄
Originally posted by Mr MasterStill just speculation.
Also,that Universe must have been a pocket universe, which Jamie then expanded into a Universe,
it's the only reasonable explanation behind the Bio stating Jamie Created "Much of that Reality"
Originally posted by Mr MasterProve it.
This makes sense,when Kitty tried to return to that Universe through Widget's Dimensional Gate that was functioning 100% only moments before,
Originally posted by Mr MasterSpeculation.
she was unable to return, there was nothing on the other side.
Originally posted by Mr MasterProve he created it, cause once again you're deviating from the on prroof an in bio evidence to play up his feats.
Actually, taking Jamie's Bio into account, the Gate must've been place in a part of the Universe that was created by Jamie,
I knew it. You didn't take back your statements of him creating universes with the modifier. You added the modifier to get me off your back.
Originally posted by Mr MasterSpeculation. He could have set up a block before hand. Which is speculation as well, but just as valid as your speculation.
therefore when Kitty tried to use the Gate, the specific destination it lead to was erased when 616 Jamie feel asleep.
Originally posted by Mr MasterProve it. You're just speculating... AGAIN.
Widget's Gate was outside of that Alternate Realitie's City where the Dirty AAngels were from, so Widget's Gate, not working, had NOTHING to do with the Dirty Angels' City disappearing.
Originally posted by Creshosk
You know that's kind of pathetic to respond to my points by quoting some one else to keep up the fascade of you being done with me.
Dude, take it easy, I'm trying to answer your other post.
What the heck is your problem?
If the unnecessary aggresive undertone is still there I won't indulge you.
I am speculating now, that's why I said, "must have been" instead of "was."
Originally posted by Creshosk
Prove it.
Read the Comic.
You should know the Gate was functional if you read it.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Speculation.
Kitty was unable to return to that Alternate Dimension once Jamie fell asleep.
No speculation, I posted the scans several times.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Prove he created it, cause once again you're deviating from the on prroof an in bio evidence to play up his feats.
"The universe that was created by jamie"I knew it. You didn't take back your statements of him creating universes with the modifier. You added the modifier to get me off your back.
Originally posted by Mr Master
the Gate must've been place IN A PART of the Universe that was created by Jamie
"IN A PART of the Universe that was created by Jamie"
Did Jamie not create "MUCH" of that Universe?
So there must have been PARTS that were Created by him.
The Gate must've been in one of those parts.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Speculation. He could have set up a block before hand. Which is speculation as well, but just as valid as your speculation.
Ok, it's plausible but I doubt it, especially considering he fell asleep beforehand.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Prove it. You're just speculating... AGAIN.
As you wish.
Originally posted by Creshosk
And you're stilltrying to play up his feats by downplaying the phoenix.
Actually I'm just posting the facts.
Originally posted by Creshosk
And yes she created a universe.
Never has on panel or in a bio.
Originally posted by Creshosk
She created the "Here comes tomorrow universe by seperating it from 616.
Jean Amputated the Future in issue #154.
"Here Comes Tomorrow" began in issue #150.
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Here Comes Tomorrow bio)
Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104 and began in issue #150
So how you figure Jean created a Universe in New X-Men #154,
when it had been created 4 issues earlier in New X-Men #150? hum
Originally posted by Creshosk
Since "Here comes tomorrow" isn't 616, and it was Jean who forced a a seperation of it from 616. I can claim that she created a universe.
Only that's not how the events played out.
Originally posted by Creshosk
By going back in time(!) and forcing Scott to stay with Emma she forced a new universe into creation.
Not exactly.
The Universe had already Diverged because of Scott's decision to quit.
Phoenix amputated that Universe's (15104) Future ... not 616's.
New X-Men #154:
Jean amputates the possible Future of Reality 15104:
..................................................................................
The Reality in her hands was already Reality 15104,
it became that Reality,
the moment Scott set in motion the chain of events that led to Here Comes Tomorrow.
Absolutely NOTHING to do with Phoenix!
Jean dies on page 30 of New-Xmen #150:
..................................................................................
Page 31 of New-Xmen #150 - and 150 YEARS have passed:
..................................................................................
Page 01 in New X-Men #151 -
starts at 150 Years in the Future (NOW it's Alternate Reality 15104)
..................................................................................
This is what lead 616 to Diverge into this Alternate Reality 15104:
Page 19 in New X-Men #151 ... 150 Years Earlier on Earth 616:
Scott decides to quit: (THIS CREATED Reality 15104 NOT Phoenix)
..................................................................................
DEEP in issue #154:
Phoenix intervenes by reaching into this moment 150 Years ago on 616 and changes Scott's mind:
"Live Scott"
..................................................................................
Scotts decision not only Created Reality 15104 ... but it also Altered that possible Future:
(Phoenix did manipulate Scott into Altering the Future,
but Scott Created Reality 15104 on his own through a Divergence.
Here Comes Tomorrow is a Divergent Timeline, that's it.
A possible Future for the 616 Reality, but it was Never a Certain Future.
That Universe took form because of Scotts decision 150 Years Ago,
Grant Morrison's way of getting away with the story.
No wonder there wasn't a single extra cameo from a character Other than X-Men related,
It's a Global epidemic and No one else knows about it?
This story (Here Comes Tomorrow) was enclosed in this Alternate Reality 15104
the second this story began 150 Years in the Future.
(I mean What? ... Only the X-Men exist in the Future of 616?) 😂
See, that's silly.
So, by the time Jean Amputates the Future Deep in the Arc in issue #154,
the Story has been taking place in Reality 15104 since issue #150.
the Future of,
Earth-15104
"In ONE Future, Phoenix severed the Alternate Future of Reality - 15104
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Mkraan Crystal bio)
"In ONE Future" (there are many Possible Futures)
Phoenix amputated the Alternate Future OF Reality 15104 ...
NOT of Reality 616 which then became 15104.
Originally posted by Mr MasterI always have an unneessary aggresive undertone. Deal with it.
Dude, take it easy, I'm trying to answer your other post.What the heck is your problem?
If the unnecessary aggresive undertone is still there I won't indulge you.
Originally posted by Mr MasterOh this will bite you when lower on the page you claim all you're doing is posting facts.
I am speculating now, that's why I said, "must have been" instead of "was."
Originally posted by Mr MasterDodging the point does not prove yours. It could have stopped working at any point in time before she tried to use it again.
Read the Comic.You should know the Gate was functional if you read it.
Originally posted by Mr MasterUsually posted along with speculation like "It wasn't there". Doing better with leaving out the why.
Kitty was unable to return to that Alternate Dimension once Jamie fell asleep.No speculation, I posted the scans several times.
Originally posted by Mr Master
dontgetit"IN A PART of the Universe that was created by Jamie"
Originally posted by Mr MasterLike the city. If you have a worm hole, and one side is closed that does not mean that everything where that side was is gone as well. Just the one side of the worm hole.
Did Jamie not create "MUCH" of that Universe?So there must have been PARTS that were Created by him.
The Gate must've been in one of those parts.
Originally posted by Mr Master
Ok, it's plausible but I doubt it, especially considering he fell asleep beforehand.As you wish.
Originally posted by Mr MasterNot what you admitted to earlier.
Actually I'm just posting the facts.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I am speculating now"
Originally posted by Mr MasterSpeculation. Again. and this time you really don't get it do you? I was doing to you the same thing you do to everyone else. Making up speculatory information to supplant what wasn't there.
Never has on panel or in a bio.Jean Amputated the Future in issue #154.
"Here Comes Tomorrow" began in issue #150.
(excerpt from the OHOTMU 2006 - Here Comes Tomorrow bio)
Here Comes Tomorrow, took place on Earth-15104 and began in issue #150
So how you figure Jean created a Universe in New X-Men #154,
when it had been created 4 issues earlier in New X-Men #150? hum
Only that's not how the events played out.
Not exactly.
The Universe had already Diverged because of Scott's decision to quit.
Phoenix amputated that Universe's (15104) Future ... not 616's.
Who was it that forced Scott and Emma to stay together? Jean.
This event is where the timeline diverged. At the time of it starting "Here comes tomorrow" was 616 until there was the forced seperation. Stating otherwise is speculating based off of "after the fact" information.
You have a piss poor grasp of temporal dynamics and its THIS shit that I was talking about when I pointed that out to you before.
But the whole point of this was to show youhow once again feats can be played up. Simply forcing the divergance does not mean that you created a universe Hell if you knew anything about M-theory you'd realize that with each choice we make and alternate reality comes into existance where the choice is made in the opposite manner. But of course you don't care about that all you care about is being right so you fail to grasp when I'm intentionally being obtuse by using YOUR logic against you to show how its flawed.
You'll note that I have not said who I think will win. That's because I'm trying to cut out all the bullshit before making up my mind rather than coming in here with some agenda with who you already think will win.
Originally posted by Creshosk
I always have an unneessary aggresive undertone. Deal with it.
Cool,
but I'm not gonna deal with it. 🙂
Originally posted by Creshosk
"THE UNIVERSE THAT WAS CREATED BY JAMIE."being clever with your wordplay will not work on me.
Honestly the rest is just more of the same, and this right here is just about enough.
This is a bit strange actually.
Originally posted by Creshosk
Like the city. If you have a worm hole, and one side is closed that does not mean that everything where that side was is gone as well. Just the one side of the worm hole.
So you believe that "MUCH of a Universe is a City. Fine.
What am I gonna gain by telling you any different? Nada.
So cool, we'll agree to disagree. I'm done now on this particular debate.
Originally posted by Mr MasterThere you go again you coward.
Cool,but I'm not gonna deal with it. 🙂
Honestly the rest is just more of the same,
Originally posted by Mr MasterAgain, speculation. I didn't say that. in fact I was giving an example of part of where the other side of the gate could have been. That was all. You're adding onto the why that I did not state.
and this right here is just about enough.This is a bit strange actually.
So you believe that "MUCH of a Universe is a City. Fine.
Originally posted by Mr Master\ So what do you have to gain by even posting on these boards? Are you here to inform the unelightend masses because it makes you feel good? What could you possibly stand to gain by posting on a public message board that's not about trade or asking for help?
What am I gonna gain by telling you any different? Nada.
Originally posted by Mr MasterYou can do whatever you want. You'll be back, I say this because thus far you've failed with all of your "I'm done" statements.
So cool, we'll agree to disagree. I'm done now on this particular debate.
Originally posted by Mr MasterJamie did not create a universe, period. This will not be debated.
Jean did NOT create a Universe, period. This will not be debated.
See? I can do it too.
Originally posted by Mr MasterAnd jean forced a change in the past. Therefore she created a universe. So I guess since Captain america had the ability to change one universe into another.
The Universe Diverged in issue #150, like it happened ON PANEL,like it happened in TWO Bios.
Jean amputated the possible Future of Reality 15104 in issue #154.
In Marvel any cat can inadvertantly create a Universe, all you need to do is Time Travel to the Past, and instantly a Reality is created to give meaning to that perpetual Timeloop:
Here's Captain America Creating a Universe in an instant inadvertantly
by Time juming into the past:
The UNIVERSE - EARTH 1602 was Created.
Here we have Clea (Strange's girl) explaining how the Year/Universe1602 was spawned:
"The [B]Rift in Space
... something came through itabout Fifteen Years ago,
something that made everything else happen.
It even made things happen a long time ago.
Something that has to be sent away from here.
Stephen suspected it was you, Virginia."
"Me?"
"But you aren't the Time-Traveller."
.......................................................................................
Here we find out that the Time-Traveller that cause Universe 1602 to spawn is Captain America:
"I was born ... will be born ... maybe I won't be born ...
in the year 1920,
over 300 Years from now.
My name is Steven Rogers"[/b]
And reality=universe according to you.
Then Captain america has reality manipulation abilites. and since he created a universe that puts him on par with Jamie doesn't it?
You really don't see the double standard you keep setting up?
Things apply to Jamie differently than they do to anyone else?
That's just showing bias. But at least we're getting your obvious bias out into the open.
For example:
Originally posted by Mr MasterYou would have ignored me if you knew I was using your logic? 😆
If I'd known this you would've been ignored from the get,thanx for the update.
Hope you find whatever satisfaction your seeking.
So people should ignore you ... since you use your logic? Or is this another double standard? Only you can use your reasing to reach the conclusions you do, but noone else.
