Absolute Happiness

Originally posted by DigiMark007
Hmm. I think we understand each other Kali.

😄

Originally posted by DigiMark007
It was more a semantic difference than an actual dissagreement of principles/beliefs. And a few of your responses were pretty close to paraphrasing sections of mine, so it's not too different. I still can't fully agree in a few areas, but the way my life is structured and the principles I adhere to aren't really at odds with much of Buddhism, so I can appreciate the effort you're making here to enlighten others based on your experience, even if it's overly Socratic at times.

I doubt that many on KMC will even hear me out, because why would they trust me ? They don't know me very well, and everyone already has thier own outlook.

However, even if one person can find some kind of strength with the knowledge I am trying to share, then that's ok by me. 🙂

Overly Socratic is okay, I like Greeks droolio

Originally posted by DigiMark007
😉

droolio

There is no such thing as "Absolute Happiness"

pain, depression, anger, sorrow, are all emotions that overpower happiness. In order for it to be absolute, nothing bad can happen.

For every happy thing comes weeks of sorrow, proving absolute happiness is for dreamers who are not in the real world.

Originally posted by Charmed_Phoebe
There is no such thing as "Absolute Happiness"

pain, depression, anger, sorrow, are all emotions that overpower happiness. In order for it to be absolute, nothing bad can happen.

For every happy thing comes weeks of sorrow, proving absolute happiness is for dreamers who are not in the real world.

I think you are confusing "absolute happiness" with "eternal happiness"....Read the start of the thread again.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I think you are confusing "absolute happiness" with "eternal happiness"....Read the start of the thread again.

I did, and I am not confusing anything thank you.

Originally posted by Charmed_Phoebe
I did, and I am not confusing anything thank you.

Originally posted by Charmed_Phoebe
There is no such thing as "Absolute Happiness"

pain, depression, anger, sorrow, are all emotions that overpower happiness. In order for it to be absolute, nothing bad can happen.

For every happy thing comes weeks of sorrow, proving absolute happiness is for dreamers who are not in the real world.

I think you are. I never said absolute happiness is eternal, in fact, I made it quite clear that I beleive even total happiness is temporary, just like suffering is temporary.

You say there is no such thing as absolute happiness. Well, I can easily argue, with your same logic, that there is no such thing as absolute suffering.

Pain is temporary

Depression is temporary

Anger is temporary

Sorrow is temporary

Those things can easily be distracted by laughter, love, humility, knowledge, wisdom, and the like.

Now, would you argue that suffering is not absolute ? Because it seems like you beleive that suffering is a solid state of mind, while happiness is fragile. What leads you to beleive this ?

Suffering and Enjoyment can be equally strong and relevant, and the intensity varies based on conditions.

Just like our suffering is due to conditions (death of a family member, sickness, heartbreak, loss of freinds, isolation from classmates, failure of a certain goal, etc.), so is enjoyment (humor, being in love, success, birth of a child, etc.)

What I am saying is that happiness doesn't have to be conditional, and you shouldn't base your happiness on superficial things such as popularity, financial success, success in infatuation, etc. because failure will lead you to suffer, and dependency on those things will keep you with constant worry.

I learned that you can choose to suffer only for things that are worth suffering over, and smirk at the things that are not worth suffering over. If my boyfreind leaves me..so what ? There's a million other guys out there. If I get a bad grade, so what ? I can try again. If I get fired at work, so what ? I can get another job. And so on.

You can choose to change your outlook, perspective, and discipline. I, as you, should be happy with who we are, and what we have, not constantly desire more.

I love who I am, and that's that. If someone else' doesn't, then that is thier insecurity, thier problem, and not my own.

My outlook has changed completely, once I let go of my petty anger, and saved my anger for times when I truly need it (which is almost never). I let go of self pity and self criticism, stop depending on other people for emotional and superificial support, and chose to only depend on myself for my emotional, mental, and physical needs.

Now, when i see someone suffer over a heartbreak, or over loss of a freindship, or over failure at a sport or art, or whatever the case, I see how they are in a prison of thier own making. These people who suffer do not see what I see. How beautiful, strong, and important they really are, and how much better they can be.

If you do not understand this, then talk to Shakymunison for more. He will teach you how he alone became the source of all his own happiness, and his life with his Wife and others is the extra privilege that comes with that.

^However, the true happiness of Buddhahood is not connected to the lower 9 worlds, and therefore, is eternal.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
^However, the true happiness of Buddhahood is not connected to the lower 9 worlds, and therefore, is eternal.

Buddhahood requires almost an absolute disregard for your own desires, and a complete state of empathy for others. Atleast from what I interpret.

I think in a time where war and prejudices are rampant, it is very difficult, almost impossible to be at total peace with every aspect of this world.

I could be wrong though.

I have empathy to the point where I need to pull back on it.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
Buddhahood requires almost an absolute disregard for your own desires, and a complete state of empathy for others. Atleast from what I interpret.

I think in a time where war and prejudices are rampant, it is very difficult, almost impossible to be at total peace with every aspect of this world.

I could be wrong though.

That is when it is need the most. http://www.sgilibrary.org/view.php?page=3

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
That is when it is need the most. http://www.sgilibrary.org/view.php?page=3

I have to read that over, that was a lot to take in lol

😕 "I love who I am, and that's that. If someone else' doesn't, then that is thier insecurity, thier problem, and not my own".
This frase is completly egoistical. How can you be happy when others have been suffering. Even plants are dying when they fill other plant is suffering, but we are human.

one thing i dont get though. for an evrage man. how do u have empathy without having any bonds?????

personally, if buddha was right. i think he meant that all useless/purposeless/tainted{in the sense that sumthing that takes u away from your atma, which i interpret as enlightened self which was untainted by all concepts and expiriences of the flesh and is one with the origin and truth of ALL things} suffering is an affect of having bonds to MATERIAL{temperorary} things, which time shall seek out and destroy. OTHER things however, like truly loving ur mate, or ur children, with all ur heart and intensity and having bonds with them in "not" in my oppinion the same as having bonds with temporal materialistic things. and the suffering one would feal at the death if such a loved one is not really adviseable to be taken away from a person.

personally i think such suffering opens our eyes more to the reality of the TRUE bonds one had with those entities and in themselves. love etc. they are not useless or tainted nor material and temporary. atmal bonds is what id like to call em 🙂 .

ofcourse, theres nothing stopping you from forming these bonds, AFTER uve reached enlightenment either i think. nirvana isnt an ultimate destination{its only ultimate in perspective to the average tainted world of most sentiences} . its a new beginning once u get there{to me}. and trancendant bonds{which i think TRUE love is} wud be present even then. along with love for all sentiences and who knows what else.

lol, well thats my current tiny personal interpretation of it anyway.

Originally posted by svetlu
😕 "I love who I am, and that's that. If someone else' doesn't, then that is thier insecurity, thier problem, and not my own".

Exactly. Why should I care if someone doesn't like the way I look, act, behave, or what I do. As long as I am not hurting them, what right does another have to judge me ?

Originally posted by svetlu
This frase is completly egoistical.

How so ? If someone hates me, and I did no harm to them, should I suffer for it ?

What good would that do ?

Originally posted by svetlu
How can you be happy when others have been suffering. Even plants are dying when they fill other plant is suffering, but we are human.

That's a different story. I can be happy knowing that someone hates my guts, or hates my race, or hates my apperance, or whatever, because that's a superficial hatred on thier part, and I need not let it have any affect on me.

I cannot truly be happy if someone I love is suffering, however.

I never knew that plants die when other plants suffer...I didn't know plants suffer 😕

Originally posted by leonheartmm
one thing i dont get though. for an evrage man. how do u have empathy without having any bonds?????

personally, if buddha was right. i think he meant that all useless/purposeless/tainted{in the sense that sumthing that takes u away from your atma, which i interpret as enlightened self which was untainted by all concepts and expiriences of the flesh and is one with the origin and truth of ALL things} suffering is an affect of having bonds to MATERIAL{temperorary} things, which time shall seek out and destroy. OTHER things however, like truly loving ur mate, or ur children, with all ur heart and intensity and having bonds with them in "not" in my oppinion the same as having bonds with temporal materialistic things. and the suffering one would feal at the death if such a loved one is not really adviseable to be taken away from a person.

personally i think such suffering opens our eyes more to the reality of the TRUE bonds one had with those entities and in themselves. love etc. they are not useless or tainted nor material and temporary. atmal bonds is what id like to call em 🙂 .

ofcourse, theres nothing stopping you from forming these bonds, AFTER uve reached enlightenment either i think. nirvana isnt an ultimate destination{its only ultimate in perspective to the average tainted world of most sentiences} . its a new beginning once u get there{to me}. and trancendant bonds{which i think TRUE love is} wud be present even then. along with love for all sentiences and who knows what else.

lol, well thats my current tiny personal interpretation of it anyway.

You must train yourself to only suffer for the things worth suffering over (i.e. death or suffering of a loved one, death or suffering of another person or animal)

Do not allow yourself to suffer over things that don't matter (someone dumping you, a peer not liking you, a racist not liking the way you look, not winning the lottery, having a few dollars stolen, losing a contest, etc.)

Those material or superifical losses can always be recovered for, there are always solutions you can work on to better them.

The death of a family member is a true reason to suffer, for you can NEVER replace them.

If you can learn to value whats important, and look at material and superficial things objectively, and not obsessively, then you will suffer far less, and be happier.

i do not think it has anything to do with training. or discipline. i know buddhism is big on it and on the "law" part of it. but i dont think that is as significant{if at all} as some people believe{although seeing the result i do respect their choice to beleive}. nor is chanting the path id take. personally, going by buddhist perspective as i see it. its about emptying yourself, not forcefully, not through WILL. but through silent relaxation. quieteness. letting your ego whither away that chains you to so many of the temporal materialistic things that taint your atma. its about slowly going into a semi sleep while meditating{in which relaxing is more important and getting in touch with the realisation of the fact that "your ego does not exist".}

and then finding emptiness[lack of presence] of your ego. than finding without forcing, {as forcing will only work against u as discipline does}, the emptiness of the very concept of emptiness, which to me, is a final attempt of your ego/psuedo self, to create a reality which is CONFINED by selfishness, or in this case, confined by the very phenomenon known as a CONCEPT{which is why i personally think the phrase EMPTINESS OF EMPTINESS, is so emphasised upon by the buddha}. once u are free of even this bond of selfishness, you can purge your existance of selfishness and come to see what you were untainted.

untainted by the very concepts of self. and that will be the first step to lowest{or rather, NEAREST to a normal man} level of enlightenment.

id probably differ with your and shaky's interpretation of the philosophy here, because{even though i have rather limited knowledge} to me. we were born OF the truth and our atma is by its nature, in tune to and searches for, the truth, reguardless of how polluted. we do not have to chant, or discipline, or force{in mostly any interpretation} ourselves to come closer to enlightenment for 2 reason. first off, to me, these practices represent things which are, even in their lightness, not part of our atma. because if u pay attention while chanting or disciplining yourselves, youll see that it is a practice through which you are trying to get sumthing done using your SELF as a tool. which wud harm the purpose. secondly, you have an inherent desire, as you slowly drift off and FORGET{rather than purge which is forceful in sum way} your tainted self, to "inherently" move towards your atmal self. for which effort is not required as much as LETTING GO is.

in my oppinion, we should look more on the content of buddha's teachings then their implications. buddha was afterall a human being, and what worked for him physically might not the same for all. yet the "content" of what buddha was trying to convey using language"which in itself is deceptive in nature" is very important. often times what he says seems to contradict himself not because the content does, but because of the limitations of language. and i think he himself said{probably in his wisdom for this exact reason} that his teachings were to be taken a rough guide to what to do and not as DOGMA, which he took every measure he can to protect his followers from.

for it is when ur stuck on words and not meaning as a whole that u become dogmatic. we should take all that is logical in his teachings. and we should interpret it in the way that is the least contradictory to his philosophy as a whole. and not be stuck on chanting{which i again respect if any1 desires to do it. and really sum people can without the shortcomings i seem to see in it but not most} or disciplining our lives. because i think, that those are more practices than the "content" of what buddha was trying to explain.

ofcourse, that IS just an oppinion of mine.

oh yeah. forgot to add. in place of chanting, id go for sincerity. the emotion towards your conciounce's PULL, to discover its original atma. and that is in itself a result of fealing the pull to begin with{which is probably the nature of all sentiences although how much they act on it might be different}.

hmm, people are getting lazy{or just kmc is dying, in all places other than comic book discussions}. views people, anything! lol.

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I think you are. I never said absolute happiness is eternal, in fact, I made it quite clear that I beleive even total happiness is temporary, just like suffering is temporary.

You say there is no such thing as absolute happiness. Well, I can easily argue, with your same logic, that there is no such thing as absolute suffering.

Pain is temporary

Depression is temporary

Anger is temporary

Sorrow is temporary

Those things can easily be distracted by laughter, love, humility, knowledge, wisdom, and the like.

Now, would you argue that suffering is not absolute ? Because it seems like you beleive that suffering is a solid state of mind, while happiness is fragile. What leads you to beleive this ?

Suffering and Enjoyment can be equally strong and relevant, and the intensity varies based on conditions.

Just like our suffering is [b]due to conditions (death of a family member, sickness, heartbreak, loss of freinds, isolation from classmates, failure of a certain goal, etc.), so is enjoyment (humor, being in love, success, birth of a child, etc.)

What I am saying is that happiness doesn't have to be conditional, and you shouldn't base your happiness on superficial things such as popularity, financial success, success in infatuation, etc. because failure will lead you to suffer, and dependency on those things will keep you with constant worry.

I learned that you can choose to suffer only for things that are worth suffering over, and smirk at the things that are not worth suffering over. If my boyfreind leaves me..so what ? There's a million other guys out there. If I get a bad grade, so what ? I can try again. If I get fired at work, so what ? I can get another job. And so on.

You can choose to change your outlook, perspective, and discipline. I, as you, should be happy with who we are, and what we have, not constantly desire more.

I love who I am, and that's that. If someone else' doesn't, then that is thier insecurity, thier problem, and not my own.

My outlook has changed completely, once I let go of my petty anger, and saved my anger for times when I truly need it (which is almost never). I let go of self pity and self criticism, stop depending on other people for emotional and superificial support, and chose to only depend on myself for my emotional, mental, and physical needs.

Now, when i see someone suffer over a heartbreak, or over loss of a freindship, or over failure at a sport or art, or whatever the case, I see how they are in a prison of thier own making. These people who suffer do not see what I see. How beautiful, strong, and important they really are, and how much better they can be.

If you do not understand this, then talk to Shakymunison for more. He will teach you how he alone became the source of all his own happiness, and his life with his Wife and others is the extra privilege that comes with that. [/B]

hmmm interesting theories you got there, however they did not help me and will not help me. You say you don't care what happens, you just let your emotions go....what would happen if everyone you loved died? Would you say so what there are tons of other people to love? I think not.

Well you would just have to view it as something out of your control, see that they are in a much happier place and be happy for them..

I do believe in happiness, that's the purpose in my life. Without it, I'm not sure where I would be. Because it gives me strength. I try to do my best with the situation I'm in and find something that might make me happy.

I learned a long time ago, that me, and only me, could make myself happy. When the other children harassed me and called me names, I began asking myself: what's the point of living, if this is life? If this is everything I can look forward to? No one should ever be forced to decide. I was too young. But I had to make a choice, between crying my eyes out, which I did at times, or doing the best I could with the situation. Ever since that day, in 6th grade, when I decided that I wanted to live and not kill myself, I found things that could make me happy. I began focusing on the positive things in my life. I had a teacher whom I loved - and still do. I had and still have great parents, a best friend and my books, my films, my drawings and my music. That's how I've found happiness every time things have gone wrong. Because I could never let myself be brought down by others. It gave me strength, but I hope I never ever experience anything like it again. The tears and pain ain't worth it. It doesn't make me special, because I'm not the only one who has been harassed or bullied, but it didn't ease the pain when I was in the middle of it. And I still have to live with the memories. And I hope I always do. Because I'm learning to live with it. I will never accept it, but I will remember it, so I can prevent others from experiencing the same as I did when I become a teacher.

That's how I've found happiness in life. When I see children laughing, when I know that my friends are safe and that my parents are okay. That makes me happy.

Regards, Yvonne