Pakistan says Rushdie knighthood justifies suicide bombings

Originally posted by Fatima
Oh yea freedom of speech from the Queen whos announced that she intends to resort to the American judiciary arguing that the book (her ex-servant who puplished a book , in which he spoke of the scandals and moral and permissiveness abuses he saw at the Palais British Queen Elizabeth II when he was a servant for several years ) tarnishes the prestige of the British Royal Family?Where is the freedom of opinion and thought ?

The thing is I think one of the intentions of the book was to deal with controversial issues within Islam, such as Mohammed being a not very nice person. It wasnt just supposed to be entertainment, it was supposed to deal with controversial issues.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The thing is I think one of the intentions of the book was to deal with controversial issues within Islam, such as Mohammed being a not very nice person. It wasnt just supposed to be entertainment, it was supposed to deal with controversial issues.

Are u kidding me ? 😬 His book, from fabricated info he referred to, do not deserve to be faced with scientific answers, because as insults, and descriptions of obscene(using the f word 52 times ) , and not scientific views , or historical require scientific answer . Its only will increase the hatred to the west and more idiots like him will get fame .

Originally posted by Fatima
Oh yea freedom of speech from the Queen whos announced that she intends to resort to the American judiciary arguing that the book (her ex-servant who puplished a book , in which he spoke of the scandals and moral and permissiveness abuses he saw at the Palais British Queen Elizabeth II when he was a servant for several years ) tarnishes the prestige of the British Royal Family?Where is the freedom of opinion and thought ?

You can libel people, but not ideas.

That Freedom of Speech is vry much alive and well for all who have the wit to see it.

Your assertions that Rushdie insulted things in the West as well only makes Islam look increasingly intolerant. The West doesn't care, see? They DO care about his freedom of expression, though.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You can libel people, but not ideas.

That Freedom of Speech is vry much alive and well for all who have the wit to see it.

Your assertions that Rushdie insulted things in the West as well only makes Islam look increasingly intolerant. The West doesn't care, see? They DO care about his freedom of expression, though.

The freedom of religion and speech in Islam is exit too but in limits , insulting others people belifes is forbiden though .The west play of double standards when its come to Islam .When the filmmaker jeans Thorage announced intention to bring the film in England on "sexual life" of the Christ (its cuase to the strong wave of anger in religious institutions, especially the European Vatican and the Archdiocese of Canterbury) British Prime Minister at that time, James Callaghan by warning that any attempt to bring such a film in England will be liable to prosecution under the law insulting sanctities, which praised the filmmaker is not producing the film.same thing in 1989 a documentary about Sister Teresa lived in Britain in the 16th century on British television screens because of the content of the film which can be construed as an insult to the Christian faith .Or with GAY NEWS newspaper in 1976 puplished a poem - British poet James Kirkup describing Christ in inappropriate situations .And the HOLOCAUST many many cases that the west draw aline on it

Still a death threat is going over the top, don't you think?

Originally posted by Fatima
The freedom of religion and speech in Islam is exit too but in limits , insulting others people belifes is forbiden though .The west play of double standards when its come to Islam .When the filmmaker jeans Thorage announced intention to bring the film in England on "sexual life" of the Christ (its cuase to the strong wave of anger in religious institutions, especially the European Vatican and the Archdiocese of Canterbury) British Prime Minister at that time, James Callaghan by warning that any attempt to bring such a film in England will be liable to prosecution under the law insulting sanctities, which praised the filmmaker is not producing the film.same thing in 1989 a documentary about Sister Teresa lived in Britain in the 16th century on British television screens because of the content of the film which can be construed as an insult to the Christian faith .Or with GAY NEWS newspaper in 1976 puplished a poem - British poet James Kirkup describing Christ in inappropriate situations .And the HOLOCAUST many many cases that the west draw aline on it

Ermm Mohamed asked his followers to kill a man who insulted him. People use this as evidence to justify fatwas. 😐

Listen.

Forget about it. Its a man's book and it based on opinion reflected on history; its there to be interpreted as one gets it. Otherwise it (history)would be a mundane subject.

Originally posted by GCG
Listen.

Forget about it. Its a man's book and it based on opinion reflected on history; its there to be interpreted as one gets it. Otherwise it (history)would be a mundane subject.

Well it was pretty blantant. Some guy insulted Mohammed and Mohammed asked two people to kill this guy. History is important it explains why things are the way they are today. I have also heard some muslims use this as a jusitifcation for making fatwas.

The whole bloody point was that fatima said Islam allows freedom of speech.

*sigh*

And this is why I hate Islam

Muslim : Yay , let's follow our archaic ideals , anyone who points out the obvious flaws in them shall die because we must continue living in an outdated manner 75% of the word dropped by the 1920's

Rushdie : *points out flaws*

Muslim : Arrghghgh you have pointed out several inconsistencies within our holy book now any attacks can be justified as acting upon your death

Or to put things in a simple manner.

Islam needs to grow the f*ck up, just because someone insults your shoddily made book of fairy tales doesn't mean you now have 'justification' to murder even more people, people insult the wests book of fairy tales all the time and we don't see mass deaths due to it do we ? !

No.

Originally posted by Fatima
The freedom of religion and speech in Islam is exit too but in limits , insulting others people belifes is forbiden though .The west play of double standards when its come to Islam .When the filmmaker jeans Thorage announced intention to bring the film in England on "sexual life" of the Christ (its cuase to the strong wave of anger in religious institutions, especially the European Vatican and the Archdiocese of Canterbury) British Prime Minister at that time, James Callaghan by warning that any attempt to bring such a film in England will be liable to prosecution under the law insulting sanctities, which praised the filmmaker is not producing the film.same thing in 1989 a documentary about Sister Teresa lived in Britain in the 16th century on British television screens because of the content of the film which can be construed as an insult to the Christian faith .Or with GAY NEWS newspaper in 1976 puplished a poem - British poet James Kirkup describing Christ in inappropriate situations .And the HOLOCAUST many many cases that the west draw aline on it

yes, people who believe in freedom of speech would also be against these

what is your point? I dont necessarily understand what you are trying to proove by saying that people everywhere are intollerant of ideas that they do not support. Britain has international shame in the freedom circles for its blasphemy laws, the same as former nazi countries and their inprisioning of holocaust deniers.

However, these cases are few and far between, and the "west" is hardly a homogenous ideological entity. Taken as a whole, freedom of speech is alive and well, especially in north america, and if you really need proof of that go look up Piss Christ.

Originally posted by Fatima
The freedom of religion and speech in Islam is exit too but in limits , insulting others people belifes is forbiden though .The west play of double standards when its come to Islam .When the filmmaker jeans Thorage announced intention to bring the film in England on "sexual life" of the Christ (its cuase to the strong wave of anger in religious institutions, especially the European Vatican and the Archdiocese of Canterbury) British Prime Minister at that time, James Callaghan by warning that any attempt to bring such a film in England will be liable to prosecution under the law insulting sanctities, which praised the filmmaker is not producing the film.same thing in 1989 a documentary about Sister Teresa lived in Britain in the 16th century on British television screens because of the content of the film which can be construed as an insult to the Christian faith .Or with GAY NEWS newspaper in 1976 puplished a poem - British poet James Kirkup describing Christ in inappropriate situations .And the HOLOCAUST many many cases that the west draw aline on it

You mean insulting people's RELIGIOUS beliefs, because Islam insults secular beliefs all the time. This outrage against the award is one such insult.

However, what you say is also a lie. Freedom of belief? Try reading a Bible in Saudi Arabia. See how free how are allowed to be.

Using decades old examples is pointless. Such censorship always was a mistake. The fact of the matter is that Christianity is mocked all the time but tends to take it on the chin. Blasphemy laws are an outdated relic and no-one takes them seriously any more. But even then they are not remotely comparable to the extreme intolerance that Islam seems to promote.

There is nothing approaching a double standard. Rushdie insulted Christianity quite thoroughly as well. So what?

This kind of behaviour simply makes Islam look childish. And you cannot pretend any pretence of free speech when inciting murder just because someone mocked your beliefs. It is absolutely beyond the pale.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Well it was pretty blantant. Some guy insulted Mohammed and Mohammed asked two people to kill this guy. History is important it explains why things are the way they are today. I have also heard some muslims use this as a jusitifcation for making fatwas.

The whole bloody point was that fatima said Islam allows freedom of speech.

Do you know anything about history? EVERY ruler during his time did that. EVERY man in a position of power did that.

Originally posted by inimalist
yes, people who believe in freedom of speech would also be against these

what is your point? I dont necessarily understand what you are trying to proove by saying that people everywhere are intollerant of ideas that they do not support. Britain has international shame in the freedom circles for its blasphemy laws, the same as former nazi countries and their inprisioning of holocaust deniers.

However, these cases are few and far between, and the "west" is hardly a homogenous ideological entity. Taken as a whole, freedom of speech is alive and well, especially in north america, and if you really need proof of that go look up Piss Christ.

You ever read the list of 'restricted' books in US libraries?

Frankly North America has never had any claim to superiority of freedom of speech.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You ever read the list of 'restricted' books in US libraries?

Frankly North America has never had any claim to superiority of freedom of speech.

nothing is perfect, however, I am exposed to many more news stories comming out of Europe than North America that I would consider issues of free speech.

Serrano and Maplethorpe have also set VERY broad definitions to freedom of speech, and I would be interested in knowing what the federal government qualifies as being disallowed speech.

I think there may also be a difference between censorship and library access, though in a perfect world, a state run institution wouldn't care about such matters. Pragmatically, how much buisnuiss is a library going to do if religious groups picketted them for having pornography? Then again, I say this without having seen the list.

EDIT: After a quick look, all I can find about American censorship deals with public libraries and schools. Nothing about restricting the sale of the books. Still evil, not overt censorship imho

Also flag burning, Vietnam protests in the 60s... I think you will find an objective list shows that North America and Western Europe have parity, they all have their ups and downs.

When you talk of 'international shame in freedom circles', I think you will find the US takes a lot more flak than the UK.

anti-americanism is the flavor of the month 😉

I hear what you are saying, and I am in no way promoting the united states as the bastion of liberty. My point wasn't that America is freer than Europe, more a comparison of blasphemy laws, which America doesn't have a Britain does. Also laws against Holocaust denial, which america doesn't have.

Originally posted by RocasAtoll
Do you know anything about history? EVERY ruler during his time did that. EVERY man in a position of power did that.

The point is she said that Islam has freedom of speech. Mohammed is supposed to be an example for muslims and muslims derive what is allowed and not allowed from his action in the hadiths. In the hadiths Mohammed asked his followers to kill a man because he insulted him and people today use this as an example to justify fatwas.

Therefore Islam does not allow freedom of speech.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You ever read the list of 'restricted' books in US libraries?

Frankly North America has never had any claim to superiority of freedom of speech.

I just went and quickly looked up a few lists of books that have been banned at some point in the US, and it's completely ridiculous.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Salman Rushdie, as you might be familiar is the author of Satanic Verses

He has recently been granted knighthood by the Queen of England, which sparked the controversy, in Iran and Pakistan, mostly.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1948375.ece

Thoughts?

At the risk of talking about a topic that eventually leads to both sides being angry with one another and nothing being resolved I will say nothing and keep listening to Keep it Comin Love by KC and the Sunshine Band and continue to enjoy my day. <------Former Marine.

Originally posted by inimalist
yes, people who believe in freedom of speech would also be against these

what is your point? I dont necessarily understand what you are trying to proove by saying that people everywhere are intollerant of ideas that they do not support. Britain has international shame in the freedom circles for its blasphemy laws, the same as former nazi countries and their inprisioning of holocaust deniers.

However, these cases are few and far between, and the "west" is hardly a homogenous ideological entity. Taken as a whole, freedom of speech is alive and well, especially in north america, and if you really need proof of that go look up Piss Christ.

Freedom of speech is one thing and deliberate humiliation of cultures and religions and ethical and religious symbols of others something else in the west or north America there is no aboslute freedom ..hey remeber cancellation of art exhibition in New York city that shows a sculpture of choclat for Jesus Christ naked , beside the Jewish lobby in US and their role in changing the facts !

Is it allow in freedom of expression in Western talking about issues such as the crimes of America and Israel or an accident such as the Holocaust, or that freedom of expression that only fitted to insult sacred values of divine religions? 🙄