World War Hulk vs Superman

Started by Alfheim72 pages

Originally posted by Creshosk

Psionic energy has in marvel often times been compared to electrical energy. Not identical but similar enough to cause interactions with each other, such as electricity interfering with telepathy or psychokenisis. On this premise its not so farfetched that astral energy being psionic energy (As we know from the association the astral plane has to psionics) is a form of energy that the Hulk is capable of perceiving. Perciving energy is still a physical thing.

Right so seeing an astral form is a physical thing but thunderclapping a dimension isnt? Hell the dimension is made out of energy. Furthermore astral neings are made out of ectoplasm as far as I know not psionic energy.

P.S. This is nonsense but im just entertaining you.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Right so seeing an astral form is a physical thing but thunderclapping a dimension isnt? Hell the dimension is made out of energy.

P.S. This is nonsense but im just entertaining you.

IT wasn't by hulk's hands alone that the dimension was thunderclapped into nonexistance.

A delightful little exageration. But sadly it's been exposed for the sham it was. 🙂

Originally posted by Creshosk
IT wasn't by hulk's hands alone that the dimension was thunderclapped into nonexistance.

A delightful little exageration. But sadly it's been exposed for the sham it was. 🙂

1. Astral forms are made out of ectoplasm not pisonic energy so your exaplantion for seeing astral forms is not valid. Certan characters use psionic energy but cannot see astral forms

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Glossary:A#astral_body
The sheath or form that contains a living being's life essence, consciousness, spirit, or soul. The astral body is a manifestation of the life essence composed of ectoplasm

2. Regardless of wether it wasnt just his hands alone its still a powerful feat, the point is that if seeing an astral form can be considered physicam so can contributing to the destruction of a dimesnion.

Originally posted by Alfheim
1. Astral forms are made out of ectoplasm not pisonic energy so your exaplantion for seeing astral forms is not valid. Certan characters use psionic energy but cannot see astral forms

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Glossary:A#astral_body
The sheath or form that contains a living being's life essence, consciousness, spirit, or soul. The astral body is a manifestation of the life essence composed of ectoplasm

2. Regardless of wether it wasnt just his hands alone its still a powerful feat, the point is that if seeing an astral form can be considered physicam so can contributing to the destruction of a dimesnion.

MAking them even more physical.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/ectoplasm

"the outer relatively rigid granule-free layer of the cytoplasm "

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/cytoplasm

"the organized complex of inorganic and organic substances external to the nuclear membrane of a cell and including the cytosol and membrane-bound organelles (as mitochondria or chloroplasts)"

Originally posted by Alfheim
1. Astral forms are made out of ectoplasm not pisonic energy so your exaplantion for seeing astral forms is not valid. Certan characters use psionic energy but cannot see astral forms

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Glossary:A#astral_body
The sheath or form that contains a living being's life essence, consciousness, spirit, or soul. The astral body is a manifestation of the life essence composed of ectoplasm

2. Regardless of wether it wasnt just his hands alone its still a powerful feat, the point is that if seeing an astral form can be considered physicam so can contributing to the destruction of a dimesnion.

Because Dimensions are made of cytoplasm? sly

Actually I'd call it plot device that allowed him to do it. That's no better than saying that Wolverine slew Sabertooth... because he didn't do it on his own, he needed the plot device to accomplish the feat. without the plot device Hulk wouldn't have accomplished the feat. And since neither the other person, or their weapon are part of Hulks standard arsenal, using "hulk thunderclapped a dimension" is disingenuine. The most you can claim solo is "Hulk thunderclapped a sonic blast" Which is perfectly reasonable.

Originally posted by Creshosk
MAking them even more physical.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/ectoplasm

"the outer relatively rigid granule-free layer of the cytoplasm "

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/cytoplasm

"the organized complex of inorganic and organic substances external to the nuclear membrane of a cell and including the cytosol and membrane-bound organelles (as mitochondria or chloroplasts)"

Look if your going to define ectoplasm as physical then everything can be considered to be physical.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Because Dimensions are made of cytoplasm? sly

What are you talking about now?

Originally posted by Creshosk

Actually I'd call it plot device that allowed him to do it. That's no better than saying that Wolverine slew Sabertooth... because he didn't do it on his own, he needed the plot device to accomplish the feat. without the plot device Hulk wouldn't have accomplished the feat. And since neither the other person, or their weapon are part of Hulks standard arsenal, using "hulk thunderclapped a dimension" is disingenuine. The most you can claim solo is "Hulk thunderclapped a sonic blast" Which is perfectly reasonable.

Regardless of wether its a plot device or not obvoulsy Hulk had to produce a great deal of energy for that to happen, if it was a small insiginificant amount it would not have happened.

Furthermore Hulk has another feat where the battle he was having affected other dimensions.

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
I firmly believe that the Hulk could defeat 99% of possible opponents if they simply tried to overcome the Hulk's strength.

But why would Superman play the Hulk's game when he could easily do away with Hulk using his speed combined with his other powers?

He wouldn't.

Meh, brawling tactics worked for Doomsday. (who should have been BFRd 10 minutes into the fight)

Originally posted by Alfheim
Look if your going to define ectoplasm as physical then everything can be considered to be physical.
Did you look at the link?
Only if its explained how... What are dimensions made out of that allows empty space to be effected that way?

Originally posted by Alfheim
What are you talking about now?
What are dimension's made out of?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Regardless of wether its a plot device or not obvoulsy Hulk had to produce a great deal of energy for that to happen, if it was a small insiginificant amount it would not have happened.
It only needed to be enough to disrupt the sonic attack. That's what? A normal thunderclap?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Furthermore Hulk has another feat where the battle he was having affected other dimensions.
And I'm sure it was in a similar manner where it wasn't all on the hulk... 🙄

Originally posted by Creshosk
Technically yes. That is a physical thing depending on the energy being used. As Matter(physical) is comprised of the same things that energy is. For example Certain forms of radiation such as an alpha particle which is composed of two neutrons and two protons. Which is basically a helium atom with a storng positive charge, I.E. no electrons.

Ok you're confusing me right off the bat. You're mixing up energy and matter, saying they are the same thing.

Let me explain - matter is energy condensed; energy is not necessarily matter dispersed. One form of energy can be converted or affected by another.

You can convert physical mass into energy, but then it is no longer considered to be matter.

Electrons are a component of stable forms of matter, on their own a flow of electrons is also what makes electricity, another form of energy.

You mention electricity, but electricity again is not matter, it is energy flowing through matter and affecting it.

There are 4 fundamental forces in physics:
* Strong: Currently falls under Quantum chromodynamics, using gluons.
* Electromagnetic: Quantum electrodynamics, uses photons.
* Weak: Electroweak Theory, uses W and Z bosons.
* Gravitation: General Relativity, uses gravitons.

Comic books have additional forms of energy which are not explained by our current physics model, which allows for both affects on types of energy listed above, and new effects never seen before:

* Psionics: Generated from the mind or will, affects psychokinesis. This is chiefly used by mutants, and can cover movement of matter (telekinesis), object deformation (such as bending / softening metal), influencing events, biological healing, teleportation, transmutation of matter, phasing through matter, shape-shifting, energy shield / force field, control of magnetism, control of photons, thoughtform projection, amongst others. This is the chief forte of mutants in the marvel universe.

* Cosmic energy: Generated from the very reality which comprises the universe, in other words a reality manipulating force. This allows for basically almost any known effect, from movement at faster than light speeds, matter and energy manipulation, and even in some circumstances time manipulation. This energy is chiefly used by Galactus, heralds such as Silver Surfer, and the Eternals (although Thanos is a special case since he is both a mutant and an Eternal, leading to his combined use of cosmic energy and psychokinesis).

* Mystical energy: Generated from forces which exist outside of the universe through alternate dimensions. Similar to cosmic energy, a writer can use this to simulate nearly any effect, however, it typically comes from tapping into an extradimensional power source. Chiefly used by Dr. Strange, otherdimensional entities (sometimes called demons), and shard realm rulers and such. Shard realms are basically 4 dimensional bubbles that can either exist on top of, or outside of, mainstay Marvel 616 reality. For example Asgard has links to 616 reality, but other shard realms do not, and must be accessed via alternate means.

* Hyperspace: Generated in the gaps which exist in between realities and universes, outside of the skin of the space / time continuum. This energy is chiefly used by the Celestials, Franklin and Susan Richards, and Hyperstorm. In the case of Hyperstorm, he is using psionic power in order to draw energy from Hyperspace in order to use it. It also apparently exists as a medium of transfer within Marvel 616 in order to overcome the physical limitations of travelling faster than light given under general relativity.

Mostly this is due to an oversite on the part of the writer. having them lift things which should crumble. It's speculation to infer anything more than simple oversite on the part of the author.

I disagree with you here. With Superman they eventually gave way and said that he uses tactile telekinesis in order to explain how he can lift a huge building without it crumbling. Hulk's feats clearly show time and time again that he must be using one of the forces listed above, not defined yet, in order to accomplish these feats. You cannot create energy or matter from nothing. He must be tapping into something in order to gain the extra mass that he has as the Hulk, and in order to get the extra energy that he was emitting during WWH.

Psionic energy has in marvel often times been compared to electrical energy. Not identical but similar enough to cause interactions with each other, such as electricity interfering with telepathy or psychokenisis. On this premise its not so farfetched that astral energy being psionic energy (As we know from the association the astral plane has to psionics) is a form of energy that the Hulk is capable of perceiving. Perciving energy is still a physical thing.

I have covered psychokinesis above. The comic book forces which exist on top of the existing physical forces in the real world can interact with other forms of energy, just as energy can interact here where we only have 4 fundamental forces. Perceiving those forms of energy is therefore simply not possible given our current fundamental forces physics model, without some form of one of the four additional comic book forces listed above.

Again I ask that you clearify what form of energy.

It has never been stated on-panel what the type of energy that Hulk is using. Personally I am leading towards either Hyperspacial energy (as Beyonder stated he had a potentially infinite source of energy to tap into, and Beyonders come from somewhere within Hyperspace, that is to say the ambient energy of the omniverse which exists both in between and outside of the mainstay realities within the multiverse that contain universe 616) or cosmic energy (which seems unlikely as Hulk has no association with Galactus or the Eternals, however, is possible). It is ruled out that it's mysical as no mystical force has ever been revealed by Dr. Strange or otherwise, and he is not a mutant, so psychokinesis / psionics is ruled out as well.

Very much a physical thing, as The vision spread his molecule(physical matter) out thus lowering his density in order to "phase" its not a stretch to say that Hulk was made denser. Still a physical thing.

It's impossible to gain mass from nowhere and become more dense without bringing in mass from the surrounding area. There is never any mention of a vacuum or otherwise when Hulk's density increases, therefore this is ruled out. You cannot gain mass from nothing.

Adaptation is VERY much a physical thing.

To an extent it is, however, adaptation to breathing in outer space is simply not possible. Hulk is sustaining himself with a non-physical force when he can survive in outer space indefinitely.

But it wasn't hulk alone that collapsed that pocket dimension. IT was also the creator of it that was involved. So This has become pointless as it's not really a valid "hulk" feat and has been revealed to be an exageration on the part of the fans.

While it is true that it was not the Hulk alone, no amount of pure physical force can collapse a dimension. In addition no amount of pure physical force can redirect energy in that way that it competely disintigrates matter with a simple thunderclap. Even if Hulk was moving his hands at the speed of light with that thunderclap, it still would have not collapsed a dimension.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Did you look at the link?

Ectoplasm may be considered to be a substance but its not considered to be "physical" in the traditional sense of the word.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Only if its explained how... What are dimensions made out of that allows empty space to be effected that way?

Rubbish it doesnt even have to make sense

Originally posted by Creshosk

What are dimension's made out of?

Oh give me a break, who gives a ****. How many times has Wolverine been punched by class100s and not sent out into orbit..hell that dont make any sense I dont see you complaining about physics there. How the **** does Cap manage to hurt somebody 100S of times stronger than himself...give me a break!

Originally posted by Creshosk

It only needed to be enough to disrupt the sonic attack. That's what? A normal thunderclap?

And I'm sure it was in a similar manner where it wasn't all on the hulk... 🙄

Your missing the point! Eventhough he didnt do it on his won he still had to be producing a great deal of energy.

Originally posted by Creshosk
Did you look at the link?
Only if its explained how... What are dimensions made out of that allows empty space to be effected that way?

Pocket dimensions are made by creating a four dimensional hypersphere of space / time within hyperspace that exists outside of the mainstay universe / continuum.

Really and truly it doesnt even matter wether it makes sense. It has to make sense in context with the character and whats possible in that unverse.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Ok you're confusing me right off the bat. You're mixing up energy and matter, saying they are the same thing.
They are the same thing on the most basic levels of that which they are made.

The same things that make up energy also make up matter.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Let me explain - matter is energy condensed; energy is not necessarily matter dispersed. One form of energy can be converted or affected by another.

You can convert physical mass into energy, but then it is no longer considered to be matter.

but its still physical... unless you mean to say that when you split the atom the resulting energy thats given off has no effect on the matter around it. which is just silly.

Originally posted by Kutulu
You mention electricity, but electricity again is not matter, it is energy flowing through matter and affecting it.
electricity is a flow of electrons. Electrons are a part of the atoms that make up the molecules that are the metter inside things. one neutron and one electron makes a hydrogen atom.

Originally posted by Kutulu
There are 4 fundamental forces in physics:
* Strong: Currently falls under Quantum chromodynamics, using gluons.
* Electromagnetic: Quantum electrodynamics, uses photons.
* Weak: Electroweak Theory, uses W and Z bosons.
* Gravitation: General Relativity, uses gravitons.
You don't understand when I tell you that energy and matter are made of the same things, but I'm expected to believe that you understand more complex forms of physics? Where'd you get that from wikipedia?

Originally posted by Kutulu
Comic books have additional forms of energy which are not explained by our current physics model, which allows for both affects on types of energy listed above, and new effects never seen before:

* [b]Psionics: Generated from the mind or will, affects psychokinesis. This is chiefly used by mutants, and can cover movement of matter (telekinesis), object deformation (such as bending / softening metal), influencing events, biological healing, teleportation, transmutation of matter, phasing through matter, shape-shifting, energy shield / force field, control of magnetism, control of photons, thoughtform projection, amongst others. This is the chief forte of mutants in the marvel universe. [/b]

Often disrupted by electromagnetism or just electricity. So must have some corelation in order to interact.

Originally posted by Kutulu
* Cosmic energy: Generated from the very reality which comprises the universe, in other words a reality manipulating force. This allows for basically almost any known effect, from movement at faster than light speeds, matter and energy manipulation, and even in some circumstances time manipulation. This energy is chiefly used by Galactus, heralds such as Silver Surfer, and the Eternals (although Thanos is a special case since he is both a mutant and an Eternal, leading to his combined use of cosmic energy and psychokinesis).
Taking poetic lisence here as Cosmic Rays are just energetic particles from space.

Originally posted by Kutulu
* Mystical energy: Generated from forces which exist outside of the universe through alternate dimensions. Similar to cosmic energy, a writer can use this to simulate nearly any effect, however, it typically comes from tapping into an extradimensional power source. Chiefly used by Dr. Strange, otherdimensional entities (sometimes called demons), and shard realm rulers and such. Shard realms are basically 4 dimensional bubbles that can either exist on top of, or outside of, mainstay Marvel 616 reality. For example Asgard has links to 616 reality, but other shard realms do not, and must be accessed via alternate means.
Magic anyway you slice it...

Originally posted by Kutulu
* Hyperspace: Generated in the gaps which exist in between realities and universes, outside of the skin of the space / time continuum. This energy is chiefly used by the Celestials, Franklin and Susan Richards, and Hyperstorm. In the case of Hyperstorm, he is using psionic power in order to draw energy from Hyperspace in order to use it. It also apparently exists as a medium of transfer within Marvel 616 in order to overcome the physical limitations of travelling faster than light given under general relativity.
Hyperspace is also something not unique to marvel...

Originally posted by Kutulu
I disagree with you here. With Superman they eventually gave way and said that he uses tactile telekinesis in order to explain how he can lift a huge building without it crumbling. Hulk's feats clearly show time and time again that he must be using one of the forces listed above, not defined yet, in order to accomplish these feats. You cannot create energy or matter from nothing.
Yet it's being generated above without explination?

Are you familiar with occam's razor?

Originally posted by Kutulu
He must be tapping into something in order to gain the extra mass that he has as the Hulk, and in order to get the extra energy that he was emitting during WWH.
It was stated once that that's where he was getting his mass from.

Honestly? It was just an excuse made up later.

Originally posted by Kutulu
I have covered psychokinesis above. The comic book forces which exist on top of the existing physical forces in the real world can interact with other forms of energy, just as energy can interact here where we only have 4 fundamental forces. Perceiving those forms of energy is therefore simply not possible given our current fundamental forces physics model, without some form of one of the four additional comic book forces listed above.
Unless there is something specialized to detect it. Obviously human eyes can't see ultraviolet or radio waves. But that doesn't mean they're undetectable.

Originally posted by Kutulu
It has never been stated on-panel what the type of energy that Hulk is using. Personally I am leading towards either Hyperspacial energy (as Beyonder stated he had a potentially infinite source of energy to tap into, and Beyonders come from somewhere within Hyperspace, that is to say the ambient energy of the omniverse which exists both in between and outside of the mainstay realities within the multiverse that contain universe 616) or cosmic energy (which seems unlikely as Hulk has no association with Galactus or the Eternals, however, is possible). It is ruled out that it's mysical as no mystical force has ever been revealed by Dr. Strange or otherwise, and he is not a mutant, so psychokinesis / psionics is ruled out as well.
Hyperspacial... Even though the dimension he gets his energy from might not be hyperspace, its the closest you listed prior to a concept like the elemental plane of fire or water.

Originally posted by Kutulu
It's impossible to gain mass from nowhere and become more dense without bringing in mass from the surrounding area. There is never any mention of a vacuum or otherwise when Hulk's density increases, therefore this is ruled out. You cannot gain mass from nothing.
unless it was his own mass. 🙄 Again Occam's razor.

Originally posted by Kutulu
To an extent it is, however, adaptation to breathing in outer space is simply not possible. Hulk is sustaining himself with a non-physical force when he can survive in outer space indefinitely.
Unless his body adapts to not need oxygen...

Originally posted by Kutulu
While it is true that it was not the Hulk alone, no amount of pure physical force can collapse a dimension.
And that's what I was trying to get at this entire time.

You cannot collapse a dimension on pure physical force. SO to simply say that Hulk thunderclapped a dimension is just stupid.

Originally posted by Kutulu
In addition no amount of pure physical force can redirect energy in that way that it competely disintigrates matter with a simple thunderclap.
Sonic energy is capable of tearing flesh from bones. But all it is is sound, a form of kinetic energy or the movement of molecules or atoms.
Just as thermal energy is a form of kinetic energy.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Even if Hulk was moving his hands at the speed of light with that thunderclap, it still would have not collapsed a dimension.
and it didn't. All he did was thunderclap the sonic energy, the sound waves, back at the one who emitted it and was in control of the dimension.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ectoplasm may be considered to be a substance but its not considered to be "physical" in the traditional sense of the word.
So the substance that comprises your cells, is not physical?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Rubbish it doesnt even have to make sense
Then how can something be stupid or not stupid if it doesn't have to make sense?

Haven't you picked up on the exaggerated satire of your own arguments yet?

Originally posted by Alfheim
Oh give me a break, who gives a ****. How many times has Wolverine been punched by class 100s and not sent out into orbit..hell that dont make any sense I dont see you complaining about physics there. How the **** does Cap manage to hurt somebody 100S of times stronger than himself...give me a break!
Why don't any bricks go flying from a single hit? Regardless of who it is?

Well technically Juggernaut should win all his fights with hulk from a single punch... Yet bricks don't go flying in brick fights... You're right. It doesn't make sense. Juggernaut has a magic(scapegoat) force propelling him foreward. I suppose, thing, collosus, and hulk do as well? to name a few?

Now enough of this red herring, Stupid shit occuring elsewhere does not excuse stupid shit happening here.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Your missing the point! Eventhough he didnt do it on his won he still had to be producing a great deal of energy.
Only enough to displace the air that the sound waves were traveling through... so no more than his usual sonic boom.

Originally posted by Creshosk
So the substance that comprises your cells, is not physical?

Im not talking about Cytoplasm im talking about ectoplasm.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Then how can something be stupid or not stupid if it doesn't have to make sense?

Beacuse its a comicbook! You said smashing a dimension with just physical force doesnt make any sense according to quantam physics. Turning into a big green monster due to massive doses of radiation doesnt make any sense according to genetics. You accept one thing and then dont accept the other.

Originally posted by Creshosk

Haven't you picked up on the exaggerated satire of your own arguments yet?

Get a grip!

Originally posted by Creshosk

Why don't any bricks go flying from a single hit? Regardless of who it is?

Well technically Juggernaut should win all his fights with hulk from a single punch... Yet bricks don't go flying in brick fights... You're right. It doesn't make sense. Juggernaut has a magic(scapegoat) force propelling him foreward. I suppose, thing, collosus, and hulk do as well? to name a few?

Now enough of this red herring, Stupid shit occuring elsewhere does not excuse stupid shit happening here.

No no no no no no no. You completely missed the point! YOU accept the fact that when Wolverine gets hit by class100s he doesnt go flying into orbit because if this was the case you would have brought this up in Wolverine vs Threads. In other words you can accept that something is scientfically incorrect and then complain about other ****

Originally posted by Creshosk

Only enough to displace the air that the sound waves were traveling through... so no more than his usual sonic boom.

Its a comicbook it doesnt have to be scientifically accurate!

Originally posted by Creshosk
They are the same thing on the most basic levels of that which they are made.

The same things that make up energy also make up matter.

WRONG. You are stating that energy is matter. That is incorrect. Just because they may use similar, or in some cases the same, building blocks doesn't mean that they are the same. This is the fundamental flaw in your position.

but its still physical... unless you mean to say that when you split the atom the resulting energy thats given off has no effect on the matter around it. which is just silly.

Once again you are wrong - all matter may be energy condensed, but the reverse is not true - all energy is not matter dispersed. Once again you are confusing things with your 11th grade understanding of physics.

electricity is a flow of electrons. Electrons are a part of the atoms that make up the molecules that are the metter inside things. one neutron and one electron makes a hydrogen atom.

You are confusing things once again here. Just because electrons are used in atoms and molecules doesn't mean that electrons by themselves will make up matter.

You don't understand when I tell you that energy and matter are made of the same things, but I'm expected to believe that you understand more complex forms of physics? Where'd you get that from wikipedia?

Energy and matter are not the same thing. Your statement is like me saying that fungus and animals are the same thing, because they both have cells. This is an incorrect statement.

Often disrupted by electromagnetism or just electricity. So must have some corelation in order to interact.

Energy may affect other energy in some cases but not all cases.

Taking poetic lisence here as Cosmic Rays are just energetic particles from space.

No they are not - Galactus contains the energies of the former universe / multiverse, it's not just "energetic particles from space". Galactus gave a portion of that energy to his heralds, who convert other forms of ambient energy to cosmic energy in order to sustain themselves and create various effects. In the case of Eternals, they are tapping into the ambient energy around them and converting it to cosmic energy.

Magic anyway you slice it...

Finally something I agree with you on.

Hyperspace is also something not unique to marvel...

I never said it was. I was giving you the Marvel definition of it based upon what was stated during various Fantastic Four comics which explained where the Celestials receive their limitless supply of energy from.

Yet it's being generated above without explination?

I gave you the explanation of where it came from.

Are you familiar with occam's razor?

Of course, any message board on the internet uses it multiple times. In this case you are misusing it.

It was stated once that that's where he was getting his mass from.

Honestly? It was just an excuse made up later.

Honestly many things are explained later on in comics. When they are explained, then it becomes canon, such as Superman's tactile telekinesis. This is standard fare for comic books.

Unless there is something specialized to detect it. Obviously human eyes can't see ultraviolet or radio waves. But that doesn't mean they're undetectable.

Human eyes cannot detect something which does not exist in the real world. Thus human eyes cannot see mystical forces, cosmic forces, hyperspace, or psionics. The only things human eyes are capable of perceiving is side effects from these forces being used, such as kinetic force and light (electromagnetism).

Hyperspacial... Even though the dimension he gets his energy from might not be hyperspace, its the closest you listed prior to a concept like the elemental plane of fire or water.

Except that there is no plane of elemental fire or water in Marvel, however, hyperspace does exist and is regularly used by a variety of characters.

unless it was his own mass. 🙄 Again Occam's razor.

You cannot gain mass from your own mass, that would be a paradox. It has been shown that Hulk's weight increases, with no vacuum noise, therefore he is not converting mass from the area around him - he is gaining it from somewhere else. It's on-panel. Once again you are misusing Occam's razor.

Unless his body adapts to not need oxygen...

Ok that is possible, I will admit, but then if he doesn't need oxygen, where is he gaining additional mass and energy from?

And that's what I was trying to get at this entire time.

You cannot collapse a dimension on pure physical force. SO to simply say that Hulk thunderclapped a dimension is just stupid.

He did thunderclap a dimension, so it's not stupid, it's on-panel. You just contradicted yourself.

Sonic energy is capable of tearing flesh from bones. But all it is is sound, a form of kinetic energy or the movement of molecules or atoms.
Just as thermal energy is a form of kinetic energy.

Ok I agree with you here.

and it didn't. All he did was thunderclap the sonic energy, the sound waves, back at the one who emitted it and was in control of the dimension.

Which would be insufficient to disintigrate all of the matter within a dimension.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Im not talking about Cytoplasm im talking about ectoplasm.
You didn't look at the link. 😆

Ectoplasm is the outer most part of cytoplasm

ectoplasm

Main Entry: ec·to·plasm
Pronunciation: \ˈek-tə-ˌpla-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1883
1 : the outer relatively rigid granule-free layer of the cytoplasm usually held to be a gel reversibly convertible to a sol
2 : a substance held to produce spirit materialization and telekinesis
— ec·to·plas·mic \ˌek-tə-ˈplaz-mik\ adjective

Originally posted by Alfheim
Beacuse its a comicbook! You said smashing a dimension with just physical force doesnt make any sense according to quantam physics. Turning into a big green monster due to massive doses of radiation doesnt make any sense according to genetics. You accept one thing and then dont accept the other.
Red herring. We're not talking about the stupidity of genetics.

Originally posted by Alfheim
Get a grip!
Coming from the man who said:

Originally posted by Alfheim
No no no no no no no. You completely missed the point! YOU accept the fact that when Wolverine gets hit by class100s he doesnt go flying into orbit because if this was the case you would have brought this up in Wolverine vs Threads. In other words you can accept that something is scientfically incorrect and then complain about other ****
More red herring? Thanks but I'm not in the mood for fish. doped]

Originally posted by Alfheim
Its a comicbook it doesnt have to be scientifically accurate!

Wow, another shit post full of nothing worth while brought to you by Alfheim: Why is he still breathing?TM

🙂

Originally posted by Creshosk
You didn't look at the link. 😆

Ectoplasm is the outer most part of cytoplasm

ectoplasm

Main Entry: ec·to·plasm
Pronunciation: \ˈek-tə-ˌpla-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1883
1 : the outer relatively rigid granule-free layer of the cytoplasm usually held to be a gel reversibly convertible to a sol
2 : a substance held to produce spirit materialization and telekinesis
— ec·to·plas·mic \ˌek-tə-ˈplaz-mik\ adjective

My god man im not refering to that:

1 : the outer relatively rigid granule-free layer of the cytoplasm usually held to be a gel reversibly convertible to a sol

im refering to this!!!!!!

2 : a substance held to produce spirit materialization and telekinesis
— ec·to·plas·mic \ˌek-tə-ˈplaz-mik\ adjective

Good grief man! Were talking about the astral plane, astral projection not cells.....Jeeezzz!!!

Originally posted by Creshosk

Red herring. We're not talking about the stupidity of genetics.

Coming from the man who said:

More red herring? Thanks but I'm not in the mood for fish. doped]

Wow, another shit post full of nothing worth while brought to you by Alfheim: Why is he still breathing?TM

🙂

*sigh*

Originally posted by Kutulu
WRONG. You are stating that energy is matter.
STRAWMAN. I said nothing of the sort. doped

Originally posted by Kutulu
That is incorrect. Just because they may use similar, or in some cases the same, building blocks doesn't mean that they are the same. This is the fundamental flaw in your position.
And the fundemental flaw in yours is I didn't say they were the same. I said they were made of the same things. We can go further in if you want. Leptons and nuetrinos if you want... Photons maybe? They're part of what makes the sub-sub-atomic particles...

Originally posted by Kutulu
Once again you are wrong - all matter may be energy condensed, but the reverse is not true - all energy is not matter dispersed. Once again you are confusing things with your 11th grade understanding of physics.
Is this how you argue? Argue against what you wish the other person was saying?

Why do you bother to post at all?

Originally posted by Kutulu
You are confusing things once again here. Just because electrons are used in atoms and molecules doesn't mean that electrons by themselves will make up matter.
Once again... where did I say that electons by themselves will make up matter?

Reading comprehension problems much?

Originally posted by Kutulu
Energy and matter are not the same thing. Your statement is like me saying that fungus and animals are the same thing, because they both have cells. This is an incorrect statement.
It's also one I didn't make.

You don't even need other people here Kutulu, You just argue agaisnt what you think they said. 🙂

Originally posted by Kutulu
Energy may affect other energy in some cases but not all cases.
Like how electricity can interfere with telepathy... and shield from manipulation of elements behind the shielding like Ironman has...

Originally posted by Kutulu
No they are not - Galactus contains the energies of the former universe / multiverse, it's not just "energetic particles from space".
Yeah, and I'm supposed to belive you know jack shit about physics? sly

Originally posted by Kutulu
Galactus gave a portion of that energy to his heralds, who convert other forms of ambient energy to cosmic energy in order to sustain themselves and create various effects. In the case of Eternals, they are tapping into the ambient energy around them and converting it to cosmic energy.
Which has what to do with real Cosmic Rays?

Originally posted by Kutulu
Finally something I agree with you on.
because its the most basic thing I could have said... eesh...

Originally posted by Kutulu
I never said it was. I was giving you the Marvel definition of it based upon what was stated during various Fantastic Four comics which explained where the Celestials receive their limitless supply of energy from.
Which in actuality has nothing to do with what I originally said that got us on this tangent...

Originally posted by Kutulu
I gave you the explanation of where it came from.
Sure you did...

Originally posted by Kutulu
Of course, any message board on the internet uses it multiple times. In this case you are misusing it.
I'll take that as a no.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Honestly many things are explained later on in comics. When they are explained, then it becomes canon, such as Superman's tactile telekinesis. This is standard fare for comic books.
Uh huh...

Originally posted by Kutulu
Human eyes cannot detect something which does not exist in the real world.
Radio waves and Ultraviolet radiation exist in the real world. >.<

Originally posted by Kutulu
Thus human eyes cannot see mystical forces,
By definition of what is "mystical"...

Originally posted by Kutulu
cosmic forces,
I'm starting to doubt your grip on reality now kid...

Originally posted by Kutulu
hyperspace, or psionics. The only things human eyes are capable of perceiving is side effects from these forces being used, such as kinetic force and light (electromagnetism).
Which has what to do with non-human eyes?

Originally posted by Kutulu
Except that there is no plane of elemental fire or water in Marvel,
That was an example of a dimension that's full of a limitless form of energy not stated above...

Originally posted by Kutulu
however, hyperspace does exist and is regularly used by a variety of characters.
And as I said is the closest example that you listed to... why am I repeating myself? You didn't understand the first time, chances are you won't understand the second...
Originally posted by Kutulu
You cannot gain mass from your own mass,
You can become denser using your own mass... Try to keep up...

Originally posted by Kutulu
that would be a paradox. It has been shown that Hulk's weight increases, with no vacuum noise, therefore he is not converting mass from the area around him - he is gaining it from somewhere else. It's on-panel. Once again you are misusing Occam's razor.
You already proven you don't know what it is. Why the hell did you mention "Internet message boards"...

Originally posted by Kutulu
Ok that is possible, I will admit, but then if he doesn't need oxygen, where is he gaining additional mass and energy from?
You should get that reading comprehension problem taken care of... If you did you'd see that I already stated where... of course you took the example literally and totally missed the point...

Originally posted by Kutulu
He did thunderclap a dimension, so it's not stupid, it's on-panel. You just contradicted yourself.
No he didn't. He thunder clapped the sonic waves that were coming at him. I didn't contradict myself, you failed at reading comprehension again... Hell you copied and pasted what happened from another source... guess you didn't comprehend it when you posted it.

Originally posted by Kutulu
Ok I agree with you here.

Which would be insufficient to disintigrate all of the matter within a dimension.

Except that said sonic energy was from said creator of said dimension... stop exagerating the feat.

Then again given how poor your reading comprehension is you probably don't think you're exagerating the feat...

Originally posted by Alfheim
My god man im not refering to that:

1 : the outer relatively rigid granule-free layer of the cytoplasm usually held to be a gel reversibly convertible to a sol

im refering to this!!!!!!

2 : a substance held to produce spirit materialization and telekinesis
— ec·to·plas·mic \&#716;ek-t&#601;-&#712;plaz-mik\ adjective

Good grief man! Were talking about the astral plane, astral projection not cells.....Jeeezzz!!!

Get a grip. doped and what is that "substance".. in other media its always depicted as slimy... just like cytoplasm...

[

Originally posted by Alfheim
So you accept that a man turning into a big green monster is logical?
Red herring and argument from silence.

More illogical posting. 🙂