Originally posted by alterangel
they stalemted in AoTC so how is he steps above him?
To simply say that 'they stalemated' would be an inaccurate account of the duel itself. Yoda obviously wasn't attacking Dooku with all of his available might, as demonstrated when he chose to allow Dooku to escape [and thus allow the war to continue] rather than sacrifice Anakin and Obi-Wan, which we know anyone who wasn't attached to Dooku would have done. Or as demonstrated when Yoda only chose to attack Dooku in the final salvo of their Force duel. Mace Windu, too, laments that he and Yoda were both blindsided by their former affection for Dooku that they did not kill him when they had the chance.
An emotionally torn and distracted Yoda forced Dooku to flee on Vjun, a Separatist held planet steeped in the dark side. So it's apparent that Yoda is quite a bit above Dooku.
the movies are the ultimate canon and in the movies dooku says " it is obvious this contest be decided with our knowledge of the force, but with our skill with a lighsaber"
and maybe yoda was emotionally torn, he still tried to kill dooku in the lighsaber fight, he went totally offensive. do u honestly think he was on the defensive the whole time? yoda tried to kill him but dooku held his own
yoda didnt LET dooku escape, they were lightsaber locked and dooku didnt even look winded were as yoda was panting, dooku just didnt have time to keep the duel going. Dooku knew that Yoda would save 2 lives over taking one its the jedi way no matter if it was yoda or mace or any other jedi (except maybe quinlan cause he is kindof grey and more rational) Yoda wasnt in a position to kill Dooku, so the choice he faced was: prolong the duel and MAYBE kill Dooku or save obi and anakin, he made the jedi choice it wasnt cause he was emotionally distraught
the movies are the ultimate canon and in the movies dooku says " it is obvious this contest be decided with our knowledge of the force, but with our skill with a lighsaber"
What the hell does this have to do with anything? I can point out two things that you need to know. a.) Dooku said that because he couldn't overpower Yoda with the Force and b.) Dooku is a fallible third-party character. What he says does not always mean that it's the gospel.
and maybe yoda was emotionally torn, he still tried to kill dooku in the lighsaber fight, he went totally offensive. do u honestly think he was on the defensive the whole time? yoda tried to kill him but dooku held his own
Yoda's chosen form is Ataru - that's what it is: offensive. He didn't try to kill Dooku, at best, he tried to wear him down.
yoda didnt LET dooku escape, they were lightsaber locked and dooku didnt even look winded were as yoda was panting, dooku just didnt have time to keep the duel going.
Yoda panted once, and it's because he's 900 frickin' years old! No one argued that Yoda possesses amazing stamina. He relies heavily on the Force to compensate for his age and mobility.
Dooku knew that Yoda would save 2 lives over taking one its the jedi way no matter if it was yoda or mace or any other jedi (except maybe quinlan cause he is kindof grey and more rational)
Bullshit. Yoda knew full well that if Dooku escaped, the war would continue. He said himself that Dooku must be CAPTURED [as in 'brought in alive'] before he "rallies more systems to his cause". Stopping him was the ultimate goal.
Yoda wasnt in a position to kill Dooku, so the choice he faced was: prolong the duel and MAYBE kill Dooku or save obi and anakin, he made the jedi choice it wasnt cause he was emotionally distraught
Your entire reasoning = shit. Furthermore, the CIS were getting their collective ass kicked all the way across Geonosis. Or do you forget that Padme and a contingent of clonetroopers were on their way to the hangar? Unless you're suggesting Dooku can outduel Yoda whilst simultaneously fighting off dozens of clonetroopers. Lmao.
Bottom line: Dooku fled because Yoda let him.
Originally posted by BlaxicanHydra
Dooku obviously is below Yoda in terms of skill, but he managed o last against him a considerable time, and again compared to the Jedi's finest, he would be up there in the tops. (I loathe Dooku, btw. Dooku and Maul, two extremely overrated people imo.)
As I've already explained, Dooku only held his own for a 'considerable time' because Yoda clearly wasn't trying to kill him. The debacle on Vjun made the disparity of power between the two quite obvious.
And neither Maul nor Dooku are overrated. Both are easily among the most powerful SW figures.
As I've already explained, Dooku only held his own for a 'considerable time' because Yoda clearly wasn't trying to kill him. The debacle on Vjun made the disparity of power between the two quite obvious.
I know... but are you saying that if Yoda were trying to kill him it would have been over in seconds or something?
nd neither Maul nor Dooku are overrated. Both are easily among the most powerful SW figures.
lol. It actually took me, me, a few seconds to realize you were being sarcastic here. Well done.
I know... but are you saying that if Yoda were trying to kill him it would have been over in seconds or something?
Of course this is only speculation, but were I to offer my two cents as to how long a serious duel between them would last, if Yoda was in the same state of mind that he was in when he fought Sidious? I'd say a minute or less.
Consider the disparity akin to Qui-Gon vs. Maul.
lol. It actually took me, me, a few seconds to realize you were being sarcastic here. Well done.
Um... I wasn't being sarcastic. It's obvious that they are. Especially Dooku.
Originally posted by Gideon
Your entire reasoning = shit. Furthermore, the CIS were getting their collective ass kicked all the way across Geonosis. Or do you forget that Padme and a contingent of clonetroopers were on their way to the hangar? Unless you're suggesting Dooku can outduel Yoda whilst simultaneously fighting off dozens of clonetroopers. Lmao.Bottom line: Dooku fled because Yoda let him.
First off dont get all offensive this isnt personal
Second off u proved my point, yes yoda let him go, but he couldnt have killed him right away is all im saying, Dooku had to go cause he knew he couldnt stand against yoda and the clones thats why he resorted to makin yoda choose, and if capturing Dooku was the ultimate goal which it was, why didnt yoda capture him? yoda did know full well that the war would continue if dooku escaped, the point is he didnt because he couldnt just let anakin and kenobi die, hes YODA he has compasssion, he could have prolonged the duel and captured dooku but he didnt, unless you can give me a quote stated the exact reason yoda let him go, my opinion is as good as yours.
all i am saying is that dooku is not leagues below him maybe a bit but by no means a large amount below him
and yes yoda was 900 years old that is still a factor in this all i was saying is that yoda seemed more tired than dooku at that moment and if he was trying to wear out dooku he wasnt doing a good job if he was wearing himself out more
First off dont get all offensive this isnt personal
I take stupidity personally. If you'd like me to be nicer [and I assure you, I can be] do me a favor and use your head.
Second off u proved my point, yes yoda let him go, but he couldnt have killed him right away is all im saying, Dooku had to go cause he knew he couldnt stand against yoda and the clones thats why he resorted to makin yoda choose, and if capturing Dooku was the ultimate goal which it was, why didnt yoda kill him? because he couldnt just let anakin and kenobi die, hes yoda he has compasssion, he could have prolonged the duel and captured dooku but he didnt, unless you can give me a quote stated the exact reason yoda let him go, my opinion is as good as yours.
Of course your opinion is as good as mine, but we're not presenting opinions, we're debating facts. Rather, I am giving you a fact and you refuse to acknowledge it. Let me make ths clear and final. Dooku was Yoda's former protege and apprentice; Dark Rendezvous makes it absolutely clear that Yoda is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to procure Dooku's safety and return to the light side. This is irrefutable. Mace himself laments in Shatterpoint that he could have killed Dooku himself and chose not to because he couldn't bring himself to kill his old friend, and the same applies with Yoda. So, if Yoda were hell-bent on bringing his former protege to justice, he would not have let him go.
The RotS novelization has a scene where Obi-Wan tells Yoda that, though they are close, he would not hesitate to sacrifice Yoda if it brought the war's end closer by a mere day. Yoda agrees that that line of thought is the right one, and that any true Jedi would be willing to make that sacrifice.
Chances are that Yoda and Dooku would have kept fighting had Dooku remained in the hangar, and then the clones would have showed up and killed Dooku. That is the most logical course of action, hence why Yoda let him go.
all i am saying is that dooku is not leagues below him maybe a bit but by no means a large amount below him
Dooku isn't leagues beneath Yoda, but he has no chance of winning and no chance of stalemating a seriously pissed off Yoda. Yoda would comfortably defeat him.
Originally posted by Gideon
I take stupidity personally. If you'd like me to be nicer [and I assure you, I can be] do me a favor and use your head.
Insulting my intelect is gonna get you nowhere and i can admit i am wrong when i am convinced which is in this case
Originally posted by Gideon
Of course your opinion is as good as mine, but we're not presenting opinions, we're debating facts. Rather, I am giving you a fact and you refuse to acknowledge it. Let me make ths clear and final. Dooku was Yoda's former protege and apprentice; Dark Rendezvous makes it absolutely clear that Yoda is willing to go to extraordinary lengths to procure Dooku's safety and return to the light side. This is irrefutable. Mace himself laments in Shatterpoint that he could have killed Dooku himself and chose not to because he couldn't bring himself to kill his old friend, and the same applies with Yoda. So, if Yoda were hell-bent on bringing his former protege to justice, he would not have let him go..
So are you saying that Yoda's rational thinking was clouded due to this? if so simply state it dont insult me
Originally posted by Gideon
The RotS novelization has a scene where Obi-Wan tells Yoda that, though they are close, he would not hesitate to sacrifice Yoda if it brought the war's end closer by a mere day. Yoda agrees that that line of thought is the [B]right one, and that any true Jedi would be willing to make that sacrifice. [/B]
Then Yoda is hypocritical in that he did the opposite?
Originally posted by Gideon
Chances are that Yoda and Dooku would have kept fighting had Dooku remained in the hangar, and then the clones would have showed up and killed Dooku. That is the most logical course of action, hence why Yoda let him go.
I doubt the clones would have killed him had yoda told them to capture him, do are u saying he couldnt capture him and that hed have to resort to killing him?
Originally posted by Gideon
Dooku isn't leagues beneath Yoda, but he has [B]no chance of winning and no chance of stalemating a seriously pissed off Yoda. Yoda would comfortably defeat him. [/B]
I agree i was under the impression that you thought yoda was "far" more powerful than dooku
Dooku isn't leagues beneath Yoda, but he has no chance of winning and no chance of stalemating a seriously pissed off Yoda. Yoda would comfortably defeat him.Thats just your opinion, he could beat him yes but it would be very hard for him to do so, and the both times they actually fought proved that they were close.
Originally posted by kiddo44
Thats just your opinion, he could beat him yes but it would be very hard for him to do so, and the both times they actually fought proved that they were close.
You haven't been paying attention, and I'm not in the mood to debate an issue with someone so obtuse that they won't read what I've posted. This is not just my opinion, and I've already proved it. Yoda is stronger than Dooku by quite a bit. If you don't like it, refute it. Otherwise, no one cares.
No, he said if Yoda turned to the Dark Side, that even Sidious would be annihilated, you know, the Dark Side makes you more powerful, thing.
But even that is just speculation, Dooku is a fallible character, his opinion isn't canon.
1. Dooku and Vader, Maul is the weakest here, no matter what the lineup, he will go down first and Anakin can defeat anybody, Maul goes down first and Sidous gets double-teamed. Or, Dooku pures himself a cup of Martini and watches Anakin defeating Sidious.
2. Sidious and Maul, no mater who Sidious fights, he can defeat him just with his Lightning(if nothing else would work, but of course he has allot else), Subjekt said that Dooku could have blocked it, but, Yoda barely deflected it, he used the last lest reserve of Force mastery to do it, Dooku would just get overwhelmed, same for Vader. Even if its Dooku versus Maul and Anakin versus Sidious, Sidious takes out Vader, before Dooku takes out Maul.
3. This is the hardest to decide and i don't know who wins here, so o will leave it, until i read more arguments, to decide.
Originally posted by Gideon
And neither Maul nor Dooku are overrated. Both are easily among the most powerful SW figures.
😐
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!!1111!!1 YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO RESTORE REASON TO THE FORUMZ, NOT LEAVE IT IN STUPIDITY!!! GO'DAMMIT!!!..
And Lightsanke is a nobo whore. No one can whore like me.