Guess you don't know the difference between having one unique ability, and being powerful in the force. By your retarded logic, The Exile=God. Great argument Molly.
Um no Bastila is far more than just one unique ability ( and so is the exile for that matter) Bastila was activily sought out by Darth Malak to become his new apprentice.
Now if Bastila only had one ability that she could do very well then explain Malak making her his new apprentice when he could have chosen someone else(I mean Sion was a sith lord under Malak)
The sith are all about power and if bastila sucks at every thing else other than battle meditation then why make her the second in line to the throne of Dark Lord of the Sith? Why not simply turn her to the dark side and have her just stay on the star forge using battle meditation to crush the republic ? Why send such a weakling out on a mission to kill Revan on Rakata Prime?
Originally posted by Darth Hord
If the force is completely forbidden then of course Yoda looses since he relies on it to help him(stamina,flipping around like a monkey) 😉
I meant, offensive Force techniques are forbidden(Push, Lightning, Choke...), precog and the way you fight in not and that would apply to Dooku as well, without the Force he would break a hip, if he tried just to move.
And Jole Bindo, who is arguing about Bastila in this thread.
Originally posted by xxXAcStylesXxx
Maybe there was something you didn't get about Bane training every night for about a year or two with Kas'im in hardcore lightsaber duels that left them both drenched in sweat. Aside from that as stated the ONLY reason Bane was able to keep up with Kas'im was because as the novel:"Over the course of his training Bane had seen every possible sequence, series, move, and trick with the double bladed lightsaber, and he knew how to counter and nullify them all." - PoD pg 243
Maybe there was something you didn't get while reading Path of Destruction. Really, Styles. If you want to use a certain source be sure that the source itself doesn't contradict your precious ideas.
"Fohargh was better trained than you," he snapped. "He knew more sequences, he knew more forms. But they couldn't save him.
"The sequences are just tools. They help you free your mind so you can draw upon the Force. That is where you will find the key to victory. Not in the muscles of your arms or the quickness of your blade. You must call upon the dark side to destroy your enemies!" (Kas'im lecturing Bane on the use of sequences in lightsaber combat, PoD)
Apparently the lightsaber ability of a certain force user is determined more by his actual strength in the force than by the number of sequences or forms he has learned (meaning his actual lightsaber training). And here is another one from Kas'im to Bane:
"That's what made it such a potentially devastating move," Kas'im explained. "You're letting the Force guide your blade now. You act without thought or reason. You're driven by passion: fury, anger...even hate. Your saber has become an extension of the dark side."
This is after he says that Bane has "moved beyond sequences and forms". And before I forget it, right after this comment, he gives that comment here on his double-bladed lightsaber:
"As you already know, the Force is the real key to victory in any confrontation. However, the equation is not so simple. Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force. The Force allows you to anticipate your opponent's moves and counter them with your own. But the more options your foe has available, the more difficult it is to predict which will be chosen."
This is the very essence of lightsaber combat. First it's decided by actual force power which is the "real key" in confrontation. Only after that the forms, sequences and the other stuff moves in. Hence Bane (because of having superior force powers) did dominate Kas'im in their final duel first until Kas'im switched to dual wielding which flooded Bane with more movement possibilities than he was able to anticipate. Yet still Bane managed to defend himself until he reached the exit of the temple.
Well would you look at that once again the source material proves you wrong. Bane for all his extreme power in the dark side of the force (he filled a large library with lightning the first time he ever attempted it, he demolished a 20 story building with a force wave, he killed his father with no training with his rage alone while sleeping) he would have gotten WTFpwned by Kas'im had it not been for the previous advantage.
Wow. Way to exegerate things. He filled a large library with lightning ? Is this why nothing in the library was damaged but just some of the scrolls / books fell out of their places. Indeed. What an impressive display of force power. And he demolished a 20 story building with a force wave ? Interresting. I hope you aren't talking about the Temple on Lehon because Bane just demolished the entranceway into the temple, burrying Kas'im under it.
By your shitty ass logic, Obi Wan is on Anakins level cause they trained for hours upon hours together and knew each other inside and out.
This "shitty logic" is apparently shared by Nick Gillard who said that Anakin and Obi-Wan are basically equal with Anakin's only advantage being the Dark Side which makes him a little bit stronger in actual confrontation. We still saw that this wasn't enough to beat Kenobi.
That clearly answers the "Show me an uber force user who didn't have uber dueling skills" crap. Try again, shit stain.
I wonder how it does that because I don't see a single being in this argument so far that does deserve the "uber powerful" rating.
Oh you mean AFTER he tapped into the living force. Try again Shit Stain.
Do you call that an argument ? Yes he tapped into the force and kicked some Vong. I wonder how that doesn't mean he's good with a lightsaber.
Oh you mean like the Republic didn't start winning immediately after she choose to aid them, and where given a cut scene to show it. Try again, Shit Stain.
Meaning what ? The only way to counter battle meditation is to use a more powerful version of battle meditation. I didn't see Malak sitting on his ass meditating when Revan entered the bridge. So how does that proof that Bastila must be powerful ? Arca Jeth did decide battles instantly by appearing on the battlefield using battle meditation while, at the same time, navigating his star-ship. He must be a damn force god I guess.
Cause maybe just maybe where given separate cutscenes showing Basitila rise from a defeat given to her by Revan. Try again, Shit Stain.
Yeah. Logic surrenders to game mechanics. So...effectively...you want to tell us that Revan did cut Bastila down with a lightsaber four times hitting her multiple times with that energy blade which cuts through everything. Technically Revan should have hacked Bastila into tiny little bits if that was the case. Maybe you might want to check the WotC SW RPG, which KotoR is based on, to see what hitpoints (or vitality points) actually do in that game.
Whats funny is: your such a horrid debater but you are actually training to be a lawyer. God I feel bad for your whore mother all that cock sucking for nothing.Tell me: how many dicks did she have to blow for you to get into the Texas U?
What a display of intellectual superiority from our debating ace Styles. Applause. You have finally reached the level of persons I wouldn't even piss on if they were on fire.
Oh you mean like where he couldn't take down two Vong Warriors...
Another nice argument. So because Kyp Durron wasn't capable of taking out two individuals that he couldn't affect via the force, couldn't sense through the force and who, on top of that, were equipped with lightsaber resistant armor and weapons, he must suck in lightsaber combat ? A giant leap in the series of Styles' bullshit conclusions and a giant step backwards for his (already nonexistant) debating culture.
Proof of that? Considering he lead several powerful Dark Jedi, was hunted by High Inquisitor Tremayne for his power and the Emperor even valued his power. PLUS he gets the VotJ to boost him yet still gets beat by Neophyte Kyle Katarn. Try Again, Shit Stain
Wow, dude ? You aren't asking him to proof are negative, are you ? Because that would be fallacious. Instead you might want to give us all insight to the huge amount of situations in which Jerec demonstrated his vast force powers because I can't recall a single one of them.
Oh yeah Kreia who got her hand diced off by Sion in one slash then got the other diced off by the Exile, who displays no real dueling talent what so ever and in all her scenes in battle almost always goes with a force attack. And when she does use her saber she gets her hands diced off. That proof enough of her lack of skill. Try again, Shit Stain
Oh wait...she get's one of her hands cut off when she doesn't expect an attack because of thinking that the guy in front of her isn't able to see or sense her. Hmm. The second hand is taken by an individual that had been noted by several persons to be a lightsaber prodigy. Yet that somehow proves that Kreia sucked in melee combat ?
Plus the Covenant examples still stand.
Yes. Except your "example" was a little bit flawed because what Lucien did was actually defeating four of his fellow apprentices that would (possibly) later become the greatest seers of the Covenant. At the time he took them in lightsaber combat they still were traines. This aside from the fact that a strength in one single ability (in this case farseeing) doesn't equate being an uber force user.
There you go. And even still that only accounts for Dark Side users, as the quote is:"Darkest power in the galaxy."
Don't you hate it when the source material proves you wrong.
BTW Shit Stain if your going to try and manipulate the sources at least be somewhat good at it like Nai.
Erm, dude. Don't you hate when the source material proves you wrong. The particular quote refers to Dark Siders, yes.
But somehow you must just have deleted the rest of the TOTJ comics from your mind, eh ?
Kun:
- killed the TOTJ Jedi Orders spokesman (Odan) with a single force attack
- tooled one of their most experienced Jedi Masters (Vodo) in melee combat
- had another of the experienced masters (Odd) acknowledging that he has no chance against Kun in direct confrontation
- had his Dark Jedi, who were equipped with just a fraction of Kun's power and knowledge, kill another eight Jedi Masters
So may I ask you who do you think was more powerful than Kun during Kun's lifetime ? Because, apparently, the source material puts him above everybody else in his era.
No genius she has far more sources to back up her dueling ability then Kun does and in these forums where more sources regarding prowess > vague unsubstantiated quotes and fanboyish bullshit.
Yay !
Did you ever read the "Freedon Nadd Uprising", Styles ? You'll possible figure out that we see Vodo in this comic and you might also figure out that he is on Ossus. And what does Vodo do there ? Apparently other Jedi Masters, even powerful ones like Thon, did take their students to Ossus or, to be more specific, to Vodo...and what did they do there ? Holy shit. They learned how to construct and use a lightsaber.
WTF ? Right, dude. Vodo is training students, even those of other masters, in the construction and use of the lightsaber. And he is referring to that people training under him as "students".
Now just a single question: What do you think why Thon takes Nomi to Ossus to study under Vodo ? Because the guy sucked in the lightsaber department ? Hardly. Yet Kun totally destroyed him. I didn't see Asajj doing something compareable. In fact what I see that Dooku is rather bored when fighting her with a lightsaber.
Aside of that we have the premises above given by Kas'im. If you yourself say that Asajj is not even remotely compareable to Kun in the force power department - how can she be above him in an art that is mainly dependant on strength in the force ? Makes no sense.
This is aside from the fact that I neither did see Asajj utilizing serveral forms with a single blade, nor did I see her developing a unique weapon with a corresponding style that features the manipulation of blade length / intensity in the midst of a fight. But that's just me of course.
But let's come back to the original topic. I'm pretty sure that Yoda can destroy Dooku in a lightsaber fight and I'd give him a chance of at least 50 % to take Kun in a one on one fight. But both of them at once ? That's quite a bit too much I guess, even for the uber muppet.
Wow, dude ? You aren't asking him to proof are negative, are you ? Because that would be fallacious.
Not seeing how that would be fallacious dude. Explain yourself. In case you didn't know, when someone naturally makes a negative statement, it's essentially up to them to prove up on said statement. AcStyles was simply asking him to prove up on his claim, and then went on to providing proof for his. He wasn't saying that Jerec was strong in the force because there's no proof that he isn't; now that would be fallacious, but that's not what he did. Though I do agree with you that force strength is a huge factor in lightsaber ability (Yoda is testament to that).
Originally posted by nmensfinest
Not seeing how that would be fallacious dude. Explain yourself. In case you didn't know, when someone naturally makes a negative statement, it's essentially up to them to prove up on said statement. AcStyles was simply asking him to prove up on his claim, and then went on to providing proof for his. He wasn't saying that Jerec was strong in the force because there's no proof that he isn't; now that would be fallacious, but that's not what he did. Though I do agree with you that force strength is a huge factor in lightsaber ability (Yoda is testament to that).
What can I say...
Wrong.
If you had followed the discussion you would be aware of the fact that Styles tried to pass down Jerec as example of a person that, despite of being powerful in the force, wasn't good in terms of lightsaber combat.
Now the burden of proof (that means presenting proof that Jerec was indeed a powerful force user) is on his side. Yet he was asking for proof that Jerec was not powerful. And thereby he did commit the logical fallacy: "Because there is no proof that Jerec wasn't powerful he must have been powerful".
Aside of that it would be, in general, an argumentum ad ignorantiam, because of him assuming that his premise ("Jerec was powerful"😉 must be right because it wasn't proven wrong.
And since I'm already at it: This entire argument is completely stupid. To have those examples making any sense, Styles would be in need to present us a force user who displayed force powers on one level with Exar Kun first. And after that he has to present us a situation where said force user displayed a clear lack of dueling abilities.