Ultimate Nullifier vs. Anti-Monitor

Originally posted by King Kandy
Shut up... You got owned far before you started searching for the issue number... Mostly on the last two pages.

He didn't pwn anything. He didn't do his research or he would know all that i'm about to post. He was only going by COIE. and that is his mistake. everything I'm talking about happened becuz of retcons and becuz of the history of the multiverse. You should have just kept quit until I got thru. Instead you wanted to partake in my pwning and feel cool. Now you can partake in me schooling someone.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
He didn't pwn anything. He didn't do his research or he would know all that i'm about to post. He was only going by COIE. and that is his mistake. everything I'm talking about happened becuz of retcons and becuz of the history of the multiverse. You should have just kept quit until I got thru. Instead you wanted to partake in my pwning and feel cool. Now you can partake in me schooling someone.

Originally posted by King Kandy
I've already pwned you enough to get my fill of it...

You barely own your house and computer. You certainly haven't pwned me. Now hush. I'm about to start posting issue numbers and why I'm right. Take a seat and relax a while.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
hopefully for his own sake he can prove what he's saying is right.

Legends tell of a wave of evil spreading through the universe, of the shattering of all reality, the creation of an antimatter universe mirroring the prime universe. The positive and negative universes created the Monitors, they were born on the moons of Oa and Qward. The Monitor and the Anti-Monitor would become mortal enemies. Krona's act had other consequences, too. The Positive universe was splintered into the multiverse. [GL2 # 40, CIE # 7, 10, HDC # 1, GLGANTHET, ZERO HOUR # 4-0]

For his crimes, Krona was reduced to a disembodied prison of pure energy.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Legends tell of a wave of evil spreading through the universe, of the shattering of all reality, the creation of an antimatter universe mirroring the prime universe. The positive and negative universes created the Monitors, they were born on the moons of Oa and Qward. The Monitor and the Anti-Monitor would become mortal enemies. Krona's act had other consequences, too. The Positive universe was splintered into the multiverse. [GL2 # 40, CIE # 7, 10, HDC # 1, GLGANTHET, ZERO HOUR # 4-0]

For his crimes, Krona was reduced to a disembodied prison of pure energy.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Which means what? What exactly does ANY of that prove?

It's giving you the issue numbers. It's telling how The AM and the monitor where equal. one over the positive and one over the negative. Also it showns how the positive was broken into weaker universes. Thus the Monitor was guardian over all those universes While the Am's universe never was broken. But the clinch is when DC retconned Kronas crime. I'm geting to that next.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It's giving you the issue numbers. It's telling how The AM and the monitor where equal. one over the positive and one over the negative. Also it showns how the positive was broken into weaker universes. Thus the Monitor was guardian over all those universes While the Am's universe never was broken. But the clinch is when DC retconned Kronas crime. I'm geting to that next.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I want to know where it's stated that the Anti Matter Universe was as powerful as the entire DC multiverse, BEFORE AM started using the anti matter wave to destroy the positive matter universes.

It was stated that they were Mirror realities, BEFORE The positive universe where splintered.I gave you the issue numbers. What you wanted. If I have to research more, I'll find more. I'm sure I can get it. I'm search for the Krona retcon to link it all.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
It was stated that they were Mirror realities, BEFORE The positive universe where splintered.I gave you the issue numbers. What you wanted. If I have to research more, I'll find more. I'm sure I can get it. I'm search for the Krona retcon to link it all.

Ok. So this is it. Krona's Experiment resulted in the release of Entropy shortening the universes life span. This was the 3rd retcon. The first was he released evil. The 2nd was that he created the Antimatter universe and the multiverse of the positive universe. They retconned again the 3rd time and said that he released entropy. Now what is important to note is that when they did this retcon, they established that the universes weren't weaker any more. hence the need for krona to have a new crime. As of countdown, as far as i can tell from spoilers and such, krona will be responsible again for the creation of the multiverse, BUT, his crime is still for releasing entropy. Thus he isn't punished for weakening the universes becuz that was explained as a creation of the presence or something like that in a spectre book. I dont' have the issues. Forgive me. So in fact, Via the many retcons, The AM universe was the equal of all of the positive infinites earths. I gave the issue numbers already, just had to make sure I got all the info in them correct.

good job nvr

Ok. I don't have exact issue numbers, But I can summise the story and I see if you agree. According to the story it goes like this: ( Taken from wiki and other sites)

During the Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was also revealed to be the cause of the existence of all parallel universes in the Multiverse; several villains were sent back in time to stop him, but were defeated by Krona and the other Oans. In a final revision, it was established that it increased entropy in the universe, shortening its existence by a billion years (see heat death). In any event, two beings were created on both the moon of Oa and the moon of Qward. On the moon of Oa, the being known as the Monitor was instantly aware of his counterpart, the Anti-Monitor (although his official name is the Monitor, and he is often addressed as such, the name Anti-Monitor is used to distinguish him from his heroic positive matter counterpart). The two beings battled for a million years, unleashing great powers against each other, but to no avail. At the end of their stalemate, the two beings rendered each other inert for nine billion years with a simultaneous attack.

Crisis on Infinite Earths( This part is important to look at)

He then released a massive anti-matter wave, absorbing the energies of the destroyed positive matter universes and growing stronger even as his counterpart grew weaker. The Anti-Monitor also employed the second Psycho Pirate, using his emotion control powers to terrorize the populations of the planets he sought to conquer and destroy. The Monitor, along with his aide Harbinger, gathered a group of heroes from various alternate universes in order to combat the threat of the Anti-Monitor.

Notice how when he destroyed the positive universes, He grew stronger as his counter grew weaker. Remember earlier that they were a stalemate and could not defeat each other. This would denote that the AM and his universe were indeed the equal of the Monitor and all his universes. Becuz the Monitor would grow weaker with every desroyed universe while ThE AM would grow stronger and so would his universe.

I hope This clears up my statement. I am not the best poster by far, and not even an eloquent speaker, But I dont' just pull stuff out of my ass if i can help it. Unless it's just to be a dick. But you'll know it. This time I was serious.

Originally posted by KRS-Brandon
good job nvr

Thanks. I did my best. I'm really a lazy poster LOL. If I had the mojo, I prolly would go and pull all of those old comics out and scan them. There has got to be a better way to get them all on the puter. I hope I explained myself clear enough. Issue numbers are all listed. 😄

I thought anyone who read Crisis understood what you just described?
They were exact equals, then Pariah accidentally destroyed his reality and it woke the Anti-Monitor, who was now more powerful than Monitor was.
It clearly describes that, and that the anti-matter universe gains in power with each destroyed matter universe in the book itself.

Originally posted by Juntai
I thought anyone who read Crisis understood what you just described?
They were exact equals, then Pariah accidentally destroyed his reality and it woke the Anti-Monitor, who was now more powerful than Monitor was.
It clearly describes that, and that the anti-matter universe gains in power with each destroyed matter universe in the book itself.

It seems not everyone got it it. And there were alot of retcons.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Now what is important to note is that when they did this retcon, they established that the universes weren't weaker any more.

Originally posted by nvrbeenwthagirl
Ok. I don't have exact issue numbers, But I can summise the story and I see if you agree. According to the story it goes like this: ( Taken from wiki and other sites)

During the Crisis on Infinite Earths, it was also revealed to be the cause of the existence of all parallel universes in the Multiverse; several villains were sent back in time to stop him, but were defeated by Krona and the other Oans. In a final revision, it was established that it increased entropy in the universe, shortening its existence by a billion years (see heat death). In any event, two beings were created on both the moon of Oa and the moon of Qward. On the moon of Oa, the being known as the Monitor was instantly aware of his counterpart, the Anti-Monitor (although his official name is the Monitor, and he is often addressed as such, the name Anti-Monitor is used to distinguish him from his heroic positive matter counterpart). The two beings battled for a million years, unleashing great powers against each other, but to no avail. At the end of their stalemate, the two beings rendered each other inert for nine billion years with a simultaneous attack.

Crisis on Infinite Earths( This part is important to look at)

He then released a massive anti-matter wave, absorbing the energies of the destroyed positive matter universes and growing stronger even as his counterpart grew weaker. The Anti-Monitor also employed the second Psycho Pirate, using his emotion control powers to terrorize the populations of the planets he sought to conquer and destroy. The Monitor, along with his aide Harbinger, gathered a group of heroes from various alternate universes in order to combat the threat of the Anti-Monitor.

Notice how when he destroyed the positive universes, He grew stronger as his counter grew weaker. Remember earlier that they were a stalemate and could not defeat each other. This would denote that the AM and his universe were indeed the equal of the Monitor and all his universes. Becuz the Monitor would grow weaker with every desroyed universe while ThE AM would grow stronger and so would his universe.

I hope This clears up my statement. I am not the best poster by far, and not even an eloquent speaker, But I dont' just pull stuff out of my ass if i can help it. Unless it's just to be a dick. But you'll know it. This time I was serious.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Where did they establish that? And remember, not mentioning it isn't the same as establishing something to the contrary.

You got me on that one. I did read it tho. That the universes weren't weaker any more, just on different vibrating plains. It was later established that the multiverse was a creation of the presence. In the spectre I believe. Juntia would know the issue better than me. But Really it boilds down to is that Krona was originally punished for splintering the Multiverse. DC rectconned this thus making the universes being weaker a non issue. As in never happened. he instead killed a billion years of life off of the Universes. I can search some more. i'm sure i'll find it. It's a daunting task with so many retcons and the confusing history of the multiverse.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Sounds fairly accurate, but I don't recall it ever being established that the Anti Matter Universe itself was as powerful as the DC Multiverse, so you're going to have to point me in the direction of that particular scan.

When the universe was destroyed becuz the other guy tried to replicate krona's experiment, It awoken the AM from the double sleep they both put each other in becuz they were both exactly matched. He destroyed his universe and woke up the AM and made him more powerful than the monitot. With just that one universe. Thus denoting that the AM universe was indeed as powerful as the entire multiverse.