Originally posted by Galan007
Also if you read this scan a little closer, you'll note a Guardian saying..."We discovered it's, [AM's], presence twelve cycles ago. Power insinuating our Universe..."
"Power which has already swept through [b]most of the other dimensional planes
.":The boldened line further disproves the theory of all the Universes being one in the same, imo. [/B]
Exactly...how? It doesn't negate what the Monitor flatly said.
I don't think it's so much that the Anti-Monitor was completely out of energy at the dawn of time just that he didn't have the energy to accomplish what he was wanting to do. Which of course, is the total destruction of an entire multiverse at once.
This is also evident in the fact that they attacked all at once with power that would level solar systems, and it didn't even phase him, and he casually waved a hand and had all of them under his power.
Originally posted by JuntaiThis is true. 👆
I don't think it's so much that the Anti-Monitor was completely out of energy at the dawn of time just that he didn't have the energy to accomplish what he was wanting to do. Which of course, is the total destruction of an entire multiverse at once.
This is also evident in the fact that they attacked all at once with power that would level solar systems, and it didn't even phase him, and he casually waved a hand and had all of them under his power.
Also,
If AM was completely depowered when he absorbed the power of that band of heroes, and this was truly all the energy he was running on..
There is no way he could have survived a Multiversal destroying blast, directly from Spectre. 😬
Alot of whats being said is just making me feel more like the spectre involvment was PIS...it all hinges on the fact that AM would not have survived the fight with spectre unless he was so dangerously powerfull?
I have seen many arguments about on panel words describing a state of power and most i can remember were backed up by most posters..and yet AM must have had energy despite what was said by AM himself?
So how does Parallax(hal) beating the spectre while fighting the heroes at the same time in zero hour look to you guys?
Anti Monitor says things about his power trying to breach a wall of creation to redo the universe at the dawn of time
Yet parallax seemed like he was rewrighting the universe,do you think parallax could have made just one universe composed of just anti matter?
Originally posted by starlockSpectre is the one attributed to Hal's defeat as well, though he did not strike the final blows as seen in the History of the DCU and Spectre's older Secret Files and according to Hal himself as The Spectre later on. Same was the case with the Anti-Monitor. It apperently wasn't his responsibility to destroy the threats, only end the threat as it was. Hal was left powerless after his fight Spectre[who popped right back up after a bit of focusing on heros punching and wrestling Hal into submission], who then popped off another Big Bang. The heros were focusing a good portion of Hal's energy draind from his globules of energy that would form his new universe- into Damage, but the remark from Damage, leaves the reader with the idea that regardless of the amount of energy they were pouring in, Spectre was doing the bulk of the work and this was after Hal was already dried up and defeated. Hal in no way or form defeated Spectre.
Alot of whats being said is just making me feel more like the spectre involvment was PIS...it all hinges on the fact that AM would not have survived the fight with spectre unless he was so dangerously powerfull?I have seen many arguments about on panel words describing a state of power and most i can remember were backed up by most posters..and yet AM must have had energy despite what was said by AM himself?
So how does Parallax(hal) beating the spectre while fighting the heroes at the same time in zero hour look to you guys?
Anti Monitor says things about his power trying to breach a wall of creation to redo the universe at the dawn of time
Yet parallax seemed like he was rewrighting the universe,do you think parallax could have made just one universe composed of just anti matter?
Anti-Monitor's power doesn't only hinge on that however, as I pointed out, he was shrugging off attacks that would level solar systems without effort and then casually waved a hand and had the entire armada of heros under his power. It's not speculation to say he wasn't out of energy, it's clearly fact. He just needed more to do what he wanted to do, which was demolish an entire multiverse in one shot.
Originally posted by Juntai
Spectre is the one attributed to Hal's defeat as well, though he did not strike the final blows as seen in the History of the DCU and Spectre's older Secret Files and according to Hal himself as The Spectre later on. Same was the case with the Anti-Monitor. It apperently wasn't his responsibility to destroy the threats, only end the threat as it was. Hal was left powerless after his fight Spectre[who popped right back up after a bit of focusing on heros punching and wrestling Hal into submission], who then popped off another Big Bang. The heros were focusing a good portion of Hal's energy draind from his globules of energy that would form his new universe- into Damage, but the remark from Damage, leaves the reader with the idea that regardless of the amount of energy they were pouring in, Spectre was doing the bulk of the work and this was after Hal was already dried up and defeated. Hal in no way or form defeated Spectre.Anti-Monitor's power doesn't only hinge on that however, as I pointed out, he was shrugging off attacks that would level solar systems without effort and then casually waved a hand and had the entire armada of heros under his power. It's not speculation to say he wasn't out of energy, it's clearly fact. He just needed more to do what he wanted to do, which was demolish an entire multiverse in one shot.
Hal Parallax still had energy left...Kyle said "spectre's sacrifice" and he weakend him(very different then powerless) as we see parallax blast spectre the spectre says aarrgghhhh and is gone,parallax was still fighting for a bit after....so he clearly was not drained fully..
.yet AM saying he was without power...means he really was not? its not a very fair assesment if you ask me...but thanks for the reply
AM shrugging off attacks of solar system levels could have been him draining them slowly and when he had sufficent energy he took them out with one quick drain....alot of this questioning has to do with debates that use certain criteria for feats and descriptions of on panel...feats and narrative..it just does not fit with what i have witnessed during my time here
AM states he had no energy and needed the heroes energy-yet he must haven had energy is the answer i get...hard to swallow...now i admit i am only up to issue 47 of countdown so i have not seen recent info from the monitors..i will be reading it soon.....thanks
I think Paralaxx defeated Spectre...as shown in zero hour...i cant recall later mentions from spectre hal...so i will see if i have revelant issues and see if there is some conection and info that helps
Originally posted by starlockThis is speculation, as there is no real basis behind it.
AM shrugging off attacks of solar system levels could have been him draining them slowly and when he had sufficent energy he took them out with one quick drain....
Originally posted by starlockThis is fact.
AM states he had no energy and needed the heroes energy-yet he must have had energy is the answer i get...hard to swallow...
By on panel showings, we can say for sure that AM clearly wasn't "depowered" when he absorbed the energy of those heroes.
Originally posted by starlockWhat Kyle said is ambiguous in that "Spectre's sacrifice" can mean anything pertaining to the situation...however, Spectre popped up shortly after and by Damage's claim, apperently had more energy than Hal was using to create the new universe. The heros drained his universe into base energy and dumped it into Damage, yet Spectre's was apperently far greater. Which shows he was far from defeated.
Hal Parallax still had energy left...Kyle said "spectre's sacrifice" and he weakend him(very different then powerless) as we see parallax blast spectre the spectre says aarrgghhhh and is gone,parallax was still fighting for a bit after....so he clearly was not drained fully..
.yet AM saying he was without power...means he really was not? its not a very fair assesment if you ask me...but thanks for the replyAM shrugging off attacks of solar system levels could have been him draining them slowly and when he had sufficent energy he took them out with one quick drain....alot of this questioning has to do with debates that use certain criteria for feats and descriptions of on panel...feats and narrative..it just does not fit with what i have witnessed during my time here
AM states he had no energy and needed the heroes energy-yet he must haven had energy is the answer i get...hard to swallow...now i admit i am only up to issue 47 of countdown so i have not seen recent info from the monitors..i will be reading it soon.....thanks
I think Paralaxx defeated Spectre...as shown in zero hour...i cant recall later mentions from spectre hal...so i will see if i have revelant issues and see if there is some conection and info that helps
The history of the DCU[which was a 52 backup, not Countdown btw], Secret Files, and Hal Jordan himself and also I believe Abin Sur[who narrated much of the Spectre's series], all attributed Hal's defeat to Spectre. Clearly your take and what was written and intended are very different.
You claim it's speculation to say that Anti-Monitor had power at the dawn of time, and in the very story, he proves is all but powerless, and then you completely fabricate your own explanation on how he was and then came up with the power? Interesting.
Originally posted by Galan007
This is speculation, as there is no real basis behind it.This is fact.
By on panel showings, we can say for sure that AM clearly wasn't "depowered" when he absorbed the energy of those heroes.
No real basis...so on panel statement from AM and then he drains them ?if thats speculation,for sure its speculation he had energy when he states on panel by himself he did not
Now galaan how is it fact? its your opinon-why because spectre's involment? because he shrugged off the heroes attacks? this does not sound like a great argument according to many other threads that insist on-on panel proof and artistict representation..let alone statements from the AM himself
He is in armor as he calls a presence around him,you can still have no power and still be durable as hell
as a matter of fact AM could be sleeping in armor and if its greater than the force attacking it AM would not be hurt
But i will let it rest and respect everyones view...as long as in the future when a simular argument is presented..it is met with the same criteria...no problem
Originally posted by NikkolasYet, before putting his field around the heros, he first shrugged off the solar sytem wiping attacks, and then spread his arms and caused a wave of power that knocked the entire armada of heros unconscious. THEN started draining their power and talked about how he had expended his power. If Superman is telling me how he has expended all his power on panel, but is in the same panel spinning a continent on his finger, I'm not likely to believe it. He did the feats under his own power, he just needed more. It's CLEARLY in the story.
If he says he's depowered, he's depowered. I don't think it's cool to dispute what's flatly stated.
Originally posted by starlockHe declared that traveling to the dawn of time expended his power AFTER taking their attacks AND defeating them in a wave of energy. All of this was also before he put his energy field over them and began draining them.
No real basis...so on panel statement from AM and then he drains them ?if thats speculation,for sure its speculation he had energy when he states on panel by himself he did notNow galaan how is it fact? its your opinon-why because spectre's involment? because he shrugged off the heroes attacks? this does not sound like a great argument according to many other threads that insist on-on panel proof and artistict representation..let alone statements from the AM himself
He is in armor as he calls a presence around him,you can still have no power and still be durable as hell
as a matter of fact AM could be sleeping in armor and if its greater than the force attacking it AM would not be hurtBut i will let it rest and respect everyones view...as long as in the future when a simular argument is presented..it is met with the same criteria...no problem
Originally posted by Juntai
Yet, before putting his field around the heros, he first shrugged off the solar sytem wiping attacks, and then spread his arms and caused a wave of power that knocked the entire armada of heros unconscious. THEN started draining their power and talked about how he had expended his power. If Superman is telling me how he has expended all his power on panel, but is in the same panel spinning a continent on his finger, I'm not likely to believe it. He did the feats under his own power, he just needed more. It's CLEARLY in the story.
In the way you describe it,he drained his last of his power shrugging off the attack and sending a wave of power to make them unconsious?
When superman finishes spinning a continent around his finger...and then states he has no power left..i would believe him,would you?
Originally posted by Juntai
He declared that traveling to the dawn of time expended his power AFTER taking their attacks AND defeating them in a wave of energy. All of this was also before he put his energy field over them and began draining them.
I understand where some are coming from i do...but when the same arguments are used in other threads...this type of logic gets shot down.fast..i actually believe we should not believe everything if there is on panel proof,i just want to see where it leeds to,from a neutral point of view because PIS does happen its a part of comics..but figuring out what is..is not an easy task
Originally posted by starlockYou're changing the context of your arguement now, instead of backtracking and sidewinding off on tangents with each subsequent post, or just making shit up like you were doing a couple posts ago, why don't you just admit you were wrong?
In the way you describe it,he drained his last of his power shrugging off the attack and sending a wave of power to make them unconsious?When superman finishes spinning a continent around his finger...and then states he has no power left..i would believe him,would you?
Anti-Monitor said his energy was depleted during his breaching of the wall of creation while he was draining power from the heros. This clearly was not true, since in the previous pages he took the direct attack of, and easily defeated in one spectacular show of power - the biggest gathering of the most powerful heros existance had ever seen with a single omnidirection wave of energy.
He obviously still a lot of power, he just needed MORE to wipe out a multiverse in a single shot.
Originally posted by starlockSay someone was holding up a pen.
I understand where some are coming from i do...but when the same arguments are used in other threads...this type of logic gets shot down.fast..i actually believe we should not believe everything if there is on panel proof,i just want to see where it leeds to,from a neutral point of view because PIS does happen its a part of comics..but figuring out what is..is not an easy task
Now you could see with your own eyes that the color of this pen was unarguably red...
Would you disregard what you could clearly see, if this person said that the pen was blue? 😕
Originally posted by Juntai
You're changing the context of your arguement now, instead of backtracking and sidewinding off on tangents with each subsequent post, or just making shit up like you were doing a couple posts ago, why don't you just admit you were wrong?Anti-Monitor said his energy was depleted during his breaching of the wall of creation while he was draining power from the heros. This clearly was not true, since in the [b]previous
pages he took the direct attack of, and easily defeated in one spectacular show of power - the biggest gathering of the most powerful heros existance had ever seen with a single omnidirection wave of energy.He obviously still a lot of power, he just needed MORE to wipe out a multiverse in a single shot. [/B]
Relax juntai,stop your postering..it does not work on me...getting angry about somthing are we? how can i be wrong when i dont know the answer? i am trying to find out...thru you and other posters..stop crying
Your desciption of my debating is wrong..i am trying to figure out where pis is in the COIE...so i guess its Supergirl...the qwards and flash and all the heroes...not one character called spectre ok no problem