Originally posted by Hambah
Young people don't necessarily like Willabeth. I'm full Sparrabeth and I am the same age as you, miss_swann. I just don't see the cuteness in Willabeth. It's more of a matter of taste, I think.
well, i love sparrabeth, and im 13, but i do like willabeth, just i love sparrabeth loads more than willabeth...there lol😉
How old is old? I'm 22 and I like sparrabeth. Surreal is older than me and she prefers Norribeth with willabeth a close second. Are you including the few but much-respected Norribethers in this theory?
My guess is most people regardless of age prefer willabeth because that's what the established couple always was. Most people don't go so far as to contemplate different pairings. Those who do either go the sparrabeth or norribeth route. This is what I think for the hard-core shippers.
Under 16: willabeth, sparrabeth, norribeth
Under 30: sparrabeth, willabeth, norribeth, but much stronger norribeth feelings
Under 40: probably back to willabeth
Yes, I'm older. 😉 I'm over 25 but less than 30, and that's all I'm saying. 😉
I very rarely like canon couples, although Pirates is an exception. My favorite ship is Norribeth. I think out of the three men who were 'candidates', Norrington was the best match for her. Yes, he was stuffy, but I think that Elizabeth could have pummeled that out of him. 😉 He's engaging, witty, sarcastic, intelligent, he's travelled plenty, he's brave, good, honorable, etc. Plus he has a bit of a rogue in him as well. 😄
I like Will and Elizabeth together as well. They compliment each other in a way that is astounding. They balance each others flaws out. They give to each other but rarely take. There is hardly anything selfish in the way they treat each other, they would do anything for each other...it's the very definition of what kind of love I'd want to give and receive from my partner in life.
As for Sparrabeth...I enjoyed them in CotBP, and I admit that the island scene is one of my favorites. They are spunky, full of intensity, but none of it really seems to be sincere or deep interest.
Jack seems only interested in Elizabeth for sex, and while Elizabeth is attracted to him, she later uses her body as a lure to trap Jack and then leave him to die. It's that kind of behavior that makes J/E pretty much repulsive to me. I have a hard time justifying any depth of love that Elizabeth may feel when she so willingly abandoned someone to die.
I also enjoy slash pairings too, which are obviously not canon in the least. You should see my poor list for Harry Potter, and you'd be astounded to know the depth to which I despise the canon couples. 😂
Originally posted by Surreal_44
Jack seems only interested in Elizabeth for sex,
hystericalhystericalhystericalhysterical I was waiting for someone to say that! *tries to control herself* You actually said the word! hysterical does this mean I'm immature?
(I would have put more smilies in but the system wouldn't let me.)
eh, i wouldn't agree with that about jack... he seems interested in women in general for sex, but that's what makes his attraction to elizabeth special, its not just about sex... its about them being similar, having similar hearts and ways of doing things. both independent, conniving, and obsessed with freedom. (well, elizabeth not so much in film 3, but whatever)
if it were just about sex, i wouldnt have gotten to like it so much. cause obviously, sex doesnt make up a relationship, nor can it keep people together for any long period of time, alone. chemistry is different. it's not just physical, it's mental, emotional, whatever.
alright miss swann, did i make you blush again?
Ta dearies, and I'm oh, about 4 decades older the oldest person who's said their age. Very interesting proposal, youngers like jack and elisabeth, cos they's hot--olders like Will & elisabeth becos we're into classics. Ummmmm, okay some truth there, however, here's the sticking point for me--I'm for elisabeth don't much matter in my estimation which one she chooses, will's a "boy" (close to her age) and they'll be great playmates and hopefully grow into themselves and have a good life. There's passion!! Elisabeth's got, in my older's opinion, a better chance to be herself with will, to be "free" with him, becos he's pliable--see grow into. Oh, and by the way, that's power and power is HOT. Imagine having a man who loves you body and soul and will do Anything to ensure your happiness as you live your lives together. Whew!
Now Jack, a Man (who has playfulness as a subset in his personality) will he mentor or control Elisabeth? He mentors, okay; he controls, he "kills" her spirit. Yeah, he can make overtures to her that cause us ALL(ALL the Ladies, not just one age group) to imagine how much fun it would be to be outrageous!! However, nothing says bummer like not being able to be sure of the person that you want to trust completely. Jack's not tamed and I think part of me, even now wants to always have the illusion of freedom and not being tamed, settled.
Here's the one real biggie--Elisabeth betrays Jack--she would have moved heaven and earth to save Will--I wouldn't stand in her way with tanks; she Betrayed Jack. Yes she felt guilty--she wanted to make amends for her betrayal--but she was at that moment a Pi-rate. I wonder how it will work out...maybe you're onto something. Fair winds, before a following sea.
Im 19 and im a sparrabether 🙂
For the younger ones (im not being patronising here...but you're younger than me so technically you are the younger ones lol 🙂), there will come a time when you will fall inlove with a nice young man and think that everything will be perfect...
And then someone else comes along with a great smile and stories about himself that you didnt think could be humanly possible... and he flirts with you and makes you feel like you could talk to him all night...
He GETS you.
I've been there and its dangerous...but you have a hell of alot of fun on the ride 🙂
Yes, its bad that you could possibly want to think about this handsome rogue whilst you're still with your kind-hearted boyfriend...but believe me, its alot harder to block out the feelings once they enter your system.
This happened to me a few months ago, and im still with my lovely boyfriend...but he just doesnt have that same spark...
All im saying is that sometimes when you have something, you WANT something else...
Elizabeth HAD Will, but she let herself go whilst she was with Jack (hell she even danced around a campfire whilst drinking rum!😄) ... she let herself be free, and live the pirate life...
For me, Jack set Elizabeth free.
The relationship probably would never have lasted...but it would have been bloody brilliant until it fell apart 🙂
Well, I'm quite a bit older than the person that started this thread and probably the oldest that posts on this forum. I am married, I've experienced College, I've had a baby....etc, etc...in other words, I've experienced Life.
I am a Sparrabether.
1) Because I love Johnny Depp/Jack Sparrow and just thought it would be great for his character to grow and develop...
2) I'm a sucker for the "reformed" rogue...the womanizer who is suddendly drawn to one woman....and forgets all others....very sexy and manly
3) Because Jack represents Freedom and Liz longs for Freedom..which I thought was the point of the entire Trilogy....
4) And I am insulted by the fact that some of you think that Jack was only interested in Liz for sex..it's much deeper than that. I agree with everything Kate said.
the reason it didn't work out is because the powers that be decided to forget character development and have everyone go back to right where they started...Liz forgot that she longed for freedom and decided to start "wearing" corsetts again, (and I don't mean literally, I mean figuratively speaking) the symbolism of Jack setting her free from that breathing constraint didn't really mean anything....
She was perfectly content to settle for her sweet little childhood romance instead of tasting adventure and freedom in the arms of the MAN that could have given her all that.....along with love.....
but Whatever....afterall, it's a friggin Disney Movie..I guess I got so caught up in the chemistry that was between jack and liz that I forgot that this was a "children's" movie....blah, blah, blah...
and like I read somewhere else..Johnny wanted to create a character that his kiddies would love to see...and I have to deal with the fact that Johnny didn't want Sparrabeth, as much as many of his fandom did, he didn't.....He was perfectly content with Jack ending up all alone on his dingy....and like someone said...Johnny wouldn't have played Jack Sparrow if he were slated to be the Hollywood Lead Male for romance....Johnny doesn't really get into doing romantic pics....but I was just hoping that just once....but then that would be against his nature, but a female can dream...oh well....
dear Lovethemtigers & t. Maria, I am a newbie/older (way older) and I am so totally missing the idea that Elisabeth can only be free when she's with a man--I guess us old 'libbrs" die hard--that girl's gonna do what she's gonna do--hell, high water, will or jack--don't matter. The possibility of her bowing to anything else is ridiculous, don'cha think? My thinking is she has already so stepped outside of society, she culd marry the monkey and no one would blink. As to mar-ri-age--sportin' with Jack, now there's the way to spend a rainy afternoon...week, year...nothing not tasty about it--you would always believe you were the only folks on earth. Will, don't short him ladies, he's growing exponintally into a force to be reckoned with--the make-up kissing after a row with Elisabeth would be oh, maybe a 6 on the ricter scale!! And here's the deal, a man who would do Anything for you--owned body and soul--AND NOT a milktoast cardboard mockup of a man. the scene below in AWE when he queries her about her decision to leave Jack to die in DMC--he was pissed off and even though his voice was low and quiet, he was volcanic in attitude. Elisabeth knew in her heart what the price would be for future solo decision making.
I too adore the "reformed rogue" conceit, we all want to tame that "proud beauty" of a wildman--it's fine when the wild beastie is our beloved house gatito, purring into our shoulder. As women, strong and true, we love the flattery of being the ONLY one who can leash the beast with our perfect love. Sure gets old when they mark their territory and tear up the furniture.
Also, I am a big proponent of the "paint your wagon" don't leave I love you, don't leave I love him--who says we can't go on as three.....Will and Jack, Jack and Will, surely her boys could for her, would for her learn to play nicely together....
^^^Oh I hear what you are saying. I don't believe that Elizabeth needs to be with a man to be free, by no means.
I just think her relationship with Will is more confining then her relationship with Jack would have been...
and although I'm a Sparrabether...I knew it would not end 100% j/e...and I was hoping it wouldn't end 100% w/e.....I was hoping that it would be left open....like Will would set her free so she wouldn't have to wait on that island for 10 years until his return..that perhaps she could go on adventures with dear old jack..and if something developed even deeper between the two, so be it..I just wanted it to be left to the imagination...well, who am I kidding..I wanted it to be j/e..but the "left to the imagination" ending would have been 100 times better than what we got.....
The idea that Jack set only Elizabeth free is also a flawed one. He set everyone in the films free. Norrington, Will, Elizabeth, even Gov. Swann...he freed them from the bindings of society and allowed them the opportunity to be who they always were.
So, by that theory, Jack technically has a lot of lovers. Yummy.
Anyway...texgodiva2s you crack me up. Of course there's the chance for a threesome. Don't you detect that sexual tension between Jack and Will? It's just boiling below the surface....
I love your posts! And you're right, it's not about 'classic' romance.
lovethemtigersI don't mean to sound insulting, but I've also tasted what life is, although I am younger and admittedly am not married and having children. That is just one example of the way to experience it...wish I was as lucky as you. *sigh*
Anyway, now I'm going to sound brutally harsh, but I don't intend to be. Just...don't be insulted because of the way I word this next part, ok? Why would you want to reform Jack? What makes him so attractive to you is his longing for freedom, his excitement, his ability to get out of tight spots...if you have him become reformed, you're just making him into another Will Turner, who by your standards, is dull and boring.
You can't have it both ways. Jack needs his freedom; he can't have that and be a good life partner for anyone.
Also, where did you get the idea that Elizabeth has 'put the corset' back on? Where did you get that? Because she loves Will? I never saw Will treat her as anything other than an equal (yes, he tried to protect her, but he protects everyone he loves). So explain to me where she becomes constrained by society again, because we get no indication of that at all.
Kate:
More bluntness. I am not trying to call you an idiot, ok? So don't get upset.
Of course Jack wanted her for sex and sex alone. He was intrigued by her, but I never saw love. I didn't see the chemistry that would make them work as a pairing either. You say it's not sex that made you interested, that it was all this other stuff, but mental and emotional.
But where is the emotional part of Jack and Elizabeth? Elizabeth gave him up to the Kraken; Jack wanted sex. His one goal with Elizabeth has always been to get her clothes off, whether it's by attempting to get her drunk, telling her that her clothes don't flatter her, or by proposing a fake marriage. There's no emotional depth to Jack and Elizabeth; everything is purely physical, and that would last about, at most, a year, before it fizzled out.
What Will and Elizabeth have is emotional. In CotBP, Elizabeth is frantic when she thinks Will died. She attacks an undead pirate with her bare fists because she is so grief-stricken. When Will did truly die, Jack had to forcibly remove her from his side. She wasn't going to leave him, in fact she screams that she won't leave him (it was so realistic it made my eyes water). She is softer with Will, more physical (she's always touching him, or he with her) in an unconscious way. She lights up when she sees Will, she is always thinking of Will.
Physical intimacy...Will seems to know what he's doing. She looked well-satisfied on the beach (I wonder where his one hand was wandering 😈) and Will also seemed quite relaxed and happy.
Mentally, Will knows what he's getting into. The only thing that puzzled and hurt him was that Elizabeth had shut him out of such an important decision. He wasn't even pissed about what she had done; he was upset that she hadn't confided in him. He learns to let that go. He is practically devouring her during her speech to the pirates. He knows what she is, and he loves her even more for it.
Elizabeth also knows and understands Will now. She understands that even with his almost-too-good-to-be-true characteristics, he's still human. He makes mistakes like any other person, he can be jealous and angry, and that makes her love him all the more. They know each others faults, and they DON'T care. They don't need the other person to be 'reformed', they don't need to tame each other or tell the other person that in order to get a 'reward' that they need to change or try to be different.
Total and complete acceptance of each other, and now, of themselves, makes Elizabeth and Will a more complex, rich relationship than most people give them credit for. No, they don't burn your eyes out with hot and heavy chemistry, but they do warm you up from the inside out, which to me is more fulfilling than a few seconds of thrills.
To each his own. I have never been warmed from the inside out watching Will and Elizabeth. And you know what....maybe it's not so much will and elizabeth as it is Orlando Bloom. He's just so bland. Maybe that's my problem.
I just dont' feel a connection between the actors/ no chemistry..and i'm not the only one...even professional movie reviewers say the same thing.
I'm sorry Surreal....I don't even know why we are even still discussing this really...
and I stand by what Kate said....I don't think it was just sex with Jack....he cared for Elizabeth alot more than just sex.....
that's my opinion, and i'm sticking to it.....
If anyone was concerned with sex...it was Elizabeth.......