Scientific theory and scientific method: Are they applicable to God?

Started by AngryManatee20 pages

The scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge of the natural world without assuming the existence or nonexistence of the supernatural, an approach sometimes called methodological naturalism. Intelligent design proponents believe that this can be equated to materialist metaphysical naturalism and have often said that not only is their own position scientific, but it is even more scientific than evolution, and that they want a redefinition of science as a revived natural theology or natural philosophy to allow "non-naturalistic theories such as intelligent design." This presents a demarcation problem, which in the philosophy of science is about how and where to draw the lines around science. For a theory to qualify as scientific, it must be:

Consistent (internally and externally)
Parsimonious (sparing in proposed entities or explanations, see Occam's Razor)
Useful (describes, explains and predicts observable phenomena)
Empirically testable and falsifiable
Based on multiple observations, often in the form of controlled, repeated experiments
Correctable and dynamic (changes are made as new data are discovered)
Progressive (achieves all that previous theories have and more)
Provisional or tentative (admits that it might not be correct rather than asserting certainty)

For any theory, hypothesis or conjecture to be considered scientific, it must meet most, but ideally all, of these criteria. The fewer criteria are met, the less scientific it is; and if it meets only a few or none at all, then it cannot be treated as scientific in any meaningful sense of the word. Typical objections to defining intelligent design as science are that it lacks consistency, violates the principle of parsimony, is not falsifiable, is not empirically testable, and is not correctable, dynamic, tentative or progressive.

In light of the apparent failure of intelligent design to adhere to scientific standards, in September 2005, 38 Nobel laureates issued a statement saying "Intelligent design is fundamentally unscientific; it cannot be tested as scientific theory because its central conclusion is based on belief in the intervention of a supernatural agent." In October 2005, a coalition representing more than 70,000 Australian scientists and science teachers issued a statement saying "intelligent design is not science" and called on "all schools not to teach Intelligent Design (ID) as science, because it fails to qualify on every count as a scientific theory."

Critics also say that the intelligent design doctrine does not meet the criteria for scientific evidence used by most courts, the Daubert Standard. The Daubert Standard governs which evidence can be considered scientific in United States federal courts and most state courts. The four Daubert criteria are:

The theoretical underpinnings of the methods must yield testable predictions by means of which the theory could be falsified.
The methods should preferably be published in a peer-reviewed journal.
There should be a known rate of error that can be used in evaluating the results.
The methods should be generally accepted within the relevant scientific community.
In deciding Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District on December 20, 2005, Judge John E. Jones III agreed with the plaintiffs, ruling that "we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents."

Originally posted by AngryManatee
The scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge of the natural world without assuming the existence or nonexistence of the supernatural, an approach sometimes called methodological naturalism. Intelligent design proponents believe that this can be equated to materialist metaphysical naturalism and have often said that not only is their own position scientific, but it is even more scientific than evolution, and that they want a redefinition of science as a revived natural theology or natural philosophy to allow "non-naturalistic theories such as intelligent design." This presents a demarcation problem, which in the philosophy of science is about how and where to draw the lines around science. For a theory to qualify as scientific, it must be:

Consistent (internally and externally)
Parsimonious (sparing in proposed entities or explanations, see Occam's Razor)
Useful (describes, explains and predicts observable phenomena)
Empirically testable and falsifiable
Based on multiple observations, often in the form of controlled, repeated experiments
Correctable and dynamic (changes are made as new data are discovered)
Progressive (achieves all that previous theories have and more)
Provisional or tentative (admits that it might not be correct rather than asserting certainty)

For any theory, hypothesis or conjecture to be considered scientific, it must meet most, but ideally all, of these criteria. The fewer criteria are met, the less scientific it is; and if it meets only a few or none at all, then it cannot be treated as scientific in any meaningful sense of the word. Typical objections to defining intelligent design as science are that it lacks consistency, violates the principle of parsimony, is not falsifiable, is not empirically testable, and is not correctable, dynamic, tentative or progressive.

In light of the apparent failure of intelligent design to adhere to scientific standards, in September 2005, 38 Nobel laureates issued a statement saying "Intelligent design is fundamentally unscientific; it cannot be tested as scientific theory because its central conclusion is based on belief in the intervention of a supernatural agent." In October 2005, a coalition representing more than 70,000 Australian scientists and science teachers issued a statement saying "intelligent design is not science" and called on "all schools not to teach Intelligent Design (ID) as science, because it fails to qualify on every count as a scientific theory."

Critics also say that the intelligent design doctrine does not meet the criteria for scientific evidence used by most courts, the Daubert Standard. The Daubert Standard governs which evidence can be considered scientific in United States federal courts and most state courts. The four Daubert criteria are:

The theoretical underpinnings of the methods must yield testable predictions by means of which the theory could be falsified.
The methods should preferably be published in a peer-reviewed journal.
There should be a known rate of error that can be used in evaluating the results.
The methods should be generally accepted within the relevant scientific community.
In deciding Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District on December 20, 2005, Judge John E. Jones III agreed with the plaintiffs, ruling that "we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents."

Is anything that you posted absolute or decreed by God? No? Then it is subject to change.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Is anything that you posted absolute or decreed by God? No? Then it is subject to change.

As are things decreed by God.

Originally posted by Bardock42
As are things decreed by God.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Is anything that you posted absolute or decreed by God? No? Then it is subject to change.

Hold on... Are you saying, that after being forced to realize that ID does not follow the scientific method... You're going to CHANGE the scientific method until it agrees with you?

Dude, that's not cool. Just admit you lost for once.

Originally posted by King Kandy
Hold on... Are you saying, that after being forced to realize that ID does not follow the scientific method... You're going to CHANGE the scientific method until it agrees with you?

Dude, that's not cool. Just admit you lost for once.

No, that was not my conclusion at all (that was yours). I simply made the point that neither scientific theory nor scientific method are absolute (I have not changed nor deviated from my original premise that I made known at the outset of this topic, go back to page one). I simply believe that unless something is decreed by God that it is not absolute--it is subject to change.

We are all still waiting.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
By all means, explain how Intelligent Design qualifies as a scientific theory when it is not testable, correctable, falsifiable, and does not make any predictions about the natural world or its phenomena.

Re: We are all still waiting.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE

Because the scientific method can be applied to it.

Re: Re: We are all still waiting.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Because the scientific method can be applied to it.

Intelligent Design is not testable, correctable, falsifiable, and does not make any predictions about the natural world or its phenomena. Therefore, the scientific method cannot be applied to it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Because the scientific method can be applied to it.

Re: Re: Re: We are all still waiting.

Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Intelligent Design is not testable, correctable, falsifiable, and does not make any predictions about the natural world or its phenomena. Therefore, the scientific method cannot be applied to it.

Then you do not understand scientific method.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Then you do not understand scientific method.
Please enlighten us how you would use the method to test it.

Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
Please enlighten us how you would use the method to test it.

I've already done this (go back and read my posts to King Kandy and Alliance or read page one).

Re: Re: Re: Re: We are all still waiting.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Then you do not understand scientific method.

And apparently neither do you. I highly doubt you have any scientific background.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I've already done this (go back and read my posts to King Kandy and Alliance or read page one).
I have and you have not. Nothing you have posted can be tested with creationism.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: We are all still waiting.

Originally posted by AngryManatee
And apparently neither do you. I highly doubt you have any scientific background.

Or formal education. 😉

Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
I have and you have not. Nothing you have posted can be tested with creationism.

I cannot determine that the universe had a starting point, that fundamental forces can be harnessed and studied using the scientific method, that the earth is the only habitable planet in our solar system, that one cell has more information that 1,000 volume encyclopedia (by the way information requires an intelligent mind), and that the human brain, heart, mind, and body are so complicated that there is no way that it could have just came into being on its own from inorganic matter?

Well, you are wrong.

God is absolute and I believe that He created matter and life with the capability for study so that it could point us straight to Him (God and His omniscience does it again).

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
by the way information requires an intelligent mind

Isn't lying a sin?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
the human brain, heart, mind, and body are so complicated that there is no way that it could have just came into being on its own from inorganic matter?

Except for the part where they're not since we can see a progression in simpler animals.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is absolute and I believe that He created matter and life with the capability for study so that it could point us straight to Him (God and His omniscience does it again)

Now that is science.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
I cannot determine that the universe had a starting point, that fundamental forces can be harnessed and studied using the scientific method.

This part is true but not part of creationism.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

that the earth is the only habitable planet in our solar system.

This is untrue; many planets are habitable but still not part of creationism.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

that one cell has more information that 1,000 volume encyclopedia.

This is testable but is not part of creationism.
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

(by the way information requires an intelligent mind.

This part is yet to be proven and is not testable, how do you test for this is the question that has been asked
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

and that the human brain, heart, mind, and body are so complicated that there is no way that it could have just came into being on its own from inorganic matter?
Again how do you test for this, what is your control, what is your procedures?
Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

Well, you are wrong. ).


Originally posted by JesusIsAlive

God is absolute and I believe that He created matter and life with the capability for study so that it could point us straight to Him (God and His omniscience does it again.
Good you finally used "I believe" instead of the "truth".

Re: Re: Re: Re: We are all still waiting.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
Then you do not understand scientific method.

Apparently, you do not, because you cannot explain how Intelligent Design qualifies as a scientific theory when it is not testable, correctable, falsifiable, and does not make any predictions about the natural world or its phenomena.