http://th04.deviantart.net/fs23/PRE/f/2007/333/8/3/Someone_For_Mai_by_Booter_Freak.png
aww yiiiiiiiis 😖unglasses:
edited for longness
http://th04.deviantart.net/fs23/PRE/f/2007/333/8/3/Someone_For_Mai_by_Booter_Freak.png
aww yiiiiiiiis 😖unglasses:
edited for longness
Originally posted by The ScenarioIf an ability or the means to use an ability isn't displayed in a canon cutscene than it isn't applicable, imo. Especially if it's an ability that would have aided the character greatly, example being Sora somehow being able to cut skyscrapers in half or teleport, yet at the same time never showing the ability to do such things in multiple instances where that would be useful.
Quick question on the specifics of Rule 14 on game mechanics.How do we resolve attacks, techniques, or otherwise that rely on a meter being filled? To give an example, say you need to block attacks to fill a meter, and once it's full can use a special attack. Or, you fill a meter by killing enemies, and once it's full you can use a special move. Another example, in Space Marine, Titus has a Fury meter that charges up as he kills enemies, and when it fills up he can activate Fury mode, which makes melee attacks stronger and heals him.
What I want to know is, how often can something like this be used? The meter is clearly a game mechanic, but the ability exists, and it is obviously intended to be limited as a "special" ability that isn't used constantly. I ask because Legacy of Kain features a similar mechanic, where Kain must kill enemies to fill up a meter (the in-game reason being that the Reaver absorbs blood and gets powers,) and then he's able to use things like a quick multi-hit teleport slash. Burning Thought seems to think that Kain can use this whenever he wants, but I'm of the opinion that Kain should at least kill a few people before he can do it.
What does everyone think? Opinions, agree, disagree?
That type of thinking also applies for meter abilities.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
If an ability or the means to use an ability isn't displayed in a canon cutscene than it isn't applicable, imo. Especially if it's an ability that would have aided the character greatly, example being Sora somehow being able to cut skyscrapers in half or teleport, yet at the same time never showing the ability to do such things in multiple instances where that would be useful.That type of thinking also applies for meter abilities.
I disagree on this because not all games have cutscenes at all, it would be illogical to suggest these characters have no canon powers.
Although, concerning some powers, like the rage bar for Titus common sense alone suggests he does not have any recollection of some bar he has to fill from striking things before he can get angry, and even more so, its not a known power of marines to gain healing properties purely from getting angry and hitting things.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Dante's Royal Guard can make his strength skyrocket beyond nearly any other attack, but only when the meter is filled. As a Dante supporter even I can't argue that he can pull this off whenever he wishes.If there's a legit, need-be reason for the meter to be filled up then it's canon to that ability. However if its an obvious game'mech that has nothing to do with the ability, eg ''You can use the Hyper-Slash after filling up the 'Awesome!' meter, fill the meter by hitting enemies!", then it does not count as none of this has to with the ability. It is what it is until something can prove otherwise.
But still, the "meter" is a game mech. When or how he does it is arguable but the meter itself is irrelevent, its just a gameplay item to gauge how the player uses it, dante himself does ont have a little meter/bar to the left of his eye that comes down to show him when he can royal guard. I would make the logical suggestion that its somehow connected with his devil energy, similiar to that used for DT that allows him to turn Dreadnought or such.
Concerning the LoK bar, its just a meter that has no place in canon, remove the uncanon meter and you have a power Kain has access to just as much as any other ability. You cant claim or add a cast limit to something that canonically has none since its not an item.
Originally posted by RE: BlaxicanObviously, if the game has no cutscenes at all, it would be exempt from that notion...
If an ability or the means to use an ability isn't displayed in a canon cutscene than it isn't applicable, imo. Especially if it's an ability that would have aided the character greatly, example being Sora somehow being able to cut skyscrapers in half or teleport, yet at the same time never showing the ability to do such things in multiple instances where that would be useful.That type of thinking also applies for meter abilities.
Cutscenes are generally just an easier way to gauge specific powers, its more along the lines of if an ability is featured in a cutscene and is completly identicle to one shown in gameplay but with a few differences either in how its used, how long it takes etc the one in the cutscene holds precedence as it is not influenced by mechanics.
Few games have a cutscene of every ability or generally every action a character can do, hell not even every character in a game may have a cutscene. I dont think a cutscene is relevent to make something canon, merely a way to make how those characters and functions work in said canon.
For example, iirc not all, hell few of Dantes powers like Royal guard and their extensions have cutscenes, I think its similiar with a lot of the weapons he gains in his travels, that does not mean they are uncanon or were never part of the game or what Dante can do, merely not important enough ot have a cutscene. The abilities/weapons themselves however still have some weight and further, may have documentation on what they do. As rule 14 states, developers would not "give a character an ability that they could not do" or something like that. Not sure I agree 100% when concerning in-game play as some controls, especially on old games allow some characters despite their abilities to do things they cannot do, like humans in some games able to do double jumps regardless of whether they have canon powers that should allow them to do it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
-
-
RG is connected to his DT, its still a circumstantial ability that needs certain things to happen before use.
IIR what you and Scene are talking about, the better question would be if the one used in the cutscenes overrides his gameplay one.
RG filled is from defending, filling with anger, adrenalin and the attackers energy. Also, isnt the Reaver all about absorbing blood and souls? Like the at the beginning how Raziel's Reaver could not appear until he's absorbed enough soul to get to full health. Absorb to use seems to fit into the Reaver's canon.
...Why do they make you get teleporting powers if he can already teleport? 😕
http://sfdebris.com/special/masseffect2.asp
I love SFDebris. :3
This is my point: The meter itself is clearly a mechanic, but the idea behind it still exists. Dante does not see a little meter, but he still needs to collect devil energy before he can Royal Guard, and Kain still needs to collect blood in order to power the Reaver. Heck, he needs to get pretty angry before he can go Berserk or set people on fire with his mind. Titus' Fury meter could be an abstraction for some kind of psychic ability; we know he's connected to the Warp somehow, and 40k does have faith based abilities.
Again, I'm not talking about the meter itself so much as I'm considering the canon idea behind it. Whatever it represents needs to happen before the ability can be used, it just depends on what that condition is. The Dimensional Teleport is an ability of the Blood Reaver (granted by the Dimension Fragment,) and the Blood Reaver needs to be fed blood in order to function. To say that Kain is able to use the Dimensional Teleport at any time is ignoring the canon behind the mechanic.
...Why do they make you get teleporting powers if he can already teleport?
It's weird. Kain teleports everywhere in cutscenes, but in gameplay he can't. Then you get the dimension fragment so he can get a small teleport in gameplay, but it's not even given a cutscene to show what it does. I would say that the cutscene teleport is the one that takes precedence, though, as that's the one Kain uses.
Originally posted by The Scenario
This is my point: The meter itself is clearly a mechanic, but the idea behind it still exists. Dante does not see a little meter, but he still needs to collect devil energy before he can Royal Guard, and Kain still needs to collect blood in order to power the Reaver. Heck, he needs to get pretty angry before he can go Berserk or set people on fire with his mind. Titus' Fury meter could be an abstraction for some kind of psychic ability; we know he's connected to the Warp somehow, and 40k does have faith based abilities.Again, I'm not talking about the meter itself so much as I'm considering the canon idea behind it. Whatever it represents needs to happen before the ability can be used, it just depends on what that condition is. The Dimensional Teleport is an ability of the Blood Reaver (granted by the Dimension Fragment,) and the Blood Reaver needs to be fed blood in order to function. To say that Kain is able to use the Dimensional Teleport at any time is ignoring the canon behind the mechanic.
It's weird. Kain teleports everywhere in cutscenes, but in gameplay he can't. Then you get the dimension fragment so he can get a small teleport in gameplay, but it's not even given a cutscene to show what it does. I would say that the cutscene teleport is the one that takes precedence, though, as that's the one Kain uses.
Wasnt energy from styles like royal guard a seperate meter to DT? when used they used the power but DT did not really "colelct" devil energy, it was within him. The reaver eats blood but theres no mension of it powering anything, same with the "angry" thing in BO2, it was never really connected with powers, some could be logically connected but not others. Again, you have to make a deduction not really based on anything in the game itself, it was just a mechanic, simple as that, you could never gain regen from just getting angry.
It does not represent anything though, you claim it does but thats for you to find a canon source from a cutscene or something. And no, the blood reaver devours blood, it does not need it to function in any canon, infact it devours blood as a side effect and can amp the users regen to incredible levels but thats the only canon connection with the blood reaver and its user.
There is no cutscene dimention teleport though. You cant use a unique teleport from one to take precedence over another, it would be like me claiming Bowsers fireball or firebreath takes presedence over another fire attack.
Originally posted by BloodRain
RG filled is from defending, filling with anger, adrenalin and the attackers energy. Also, isnt the Reaver all about absorbing blood and souls? Like the at the beginning how Raziel's Reaver could not appear until he's absorbed enough soul to get to full health. Absorb to use seems to fit into the Reaver's canon....Why do they make you get teleporting powers if he can already teleport? 😕
The reaver does devour blood, but thats the canon property of it, abosrbing blood to power anything has never been stated in canon, infact all it seems to do in SR2 is power a healing buff in Raziel. As for SR1 wraith blade, that seems a gameplay mechanic thats evolved to being constantly active, these are mechanics because in the first one it was a one hit kill weapon and needed some balance.
The dimention one is faster, that seems to be the main difference although every strike he does mirrors its damage onto other nearby threats.
Concerning DMC, the devil energy was hard to gauge but when DMC 3 came along and you got that soul sphere that could give Dante a lot of devil energy, it became a more canon and less gameplay addition. I dont recall a gauge on how much of it was an energy source or how much it was just something Dante had access to from time to time.
http://legacyofkain.wikia.com/wiki/Feeding_The_Reaver
Actually, the manual of Defiance states that the Reaver absorbs it's victim's energy in order to increase it's power:
When an enemy is reduced to a
vulnerable state, Kain and Raziel may
forego drinking the victim’s blood or
devouring its soul, and instead feed
the victim’s life energy to the Reaver
blade, increasing its power temporarily
I managed to find a PDF of the Defiance manual, if anyone wants to doublecheck.
Originally posted by BloodRain
"feed the victim’s life energy to the Reaver blade, increasing its power temporarily"If it canonly needs to absorb to get to full strength etc and has the function then it don't sound like a mech to me.
..Wah? Whats his devil energy got to do with the topic?
It is a main characteristic of the Reaver in Defiance gameplay, so I doubt it would be 'just a mechanic'.
Dunno. I've always assumed that at the start of a match, Dante's ability to DT was at MAX. Might be tied to his stamina.
Unlike the RG ability, which needs him to block attacks first in order to use the offensive abilities of RG.
Originally posted by The Scenario
It's weird. Kain teleports everywhere in cutscenes, but in gameplay he can't. Then you get the dimension fragment so he can get a small teleport in gameplay, but it's not even given a cutscene to show what it does. I would say that the cutscene teleport is the one that takes precedence, though, as that's the one Kain uses.
Cutscene teleports as in the one he uses in the Chronoplast when he's confronted by Raziel?
I think he'd have both. Dimensional Fragment giving him those short-range, quick burst teleports, while his usual ones giving him long range, but slower teleports.
That wiki even points it out as a gameplay mechanic though, everything in Defiance concerning the reavers meters and such are never canonically stated in the games canon. The reaver drinks blood being a vampiric blade and when it gains raziel, the soul reaver eats souls. But as I said, there seems to be no "charge up" canonically. Again, the only canon power that "may" be connected ot the reaver drinking blood is a higher regen of the wielder although even that is arguable.
^And at the end when escaping EG.
Originally posted by The Scenario
You said Royal Guard was connected to his Devil Trigger, right? So he builds up devil energy or something for it?
Edit: Ah I see. I said DT when I was meant to say devil energy <-<
Hm maybe but that be discussed in a thread, point being is they seem to use the same source for their power which is canon in the story while the reavers are stated to devour souls or blood but theres no canon that states they need to do it to charge up, thats solely a gameplay mechanic which is actually ignored by game bosses and not even present in older games of the exact same weapons. Same with "selecting" different reavers being a mechanic, their not different reavers, the same weapon is imbued by the power of whatever they absorbed but in-game you select them on a wheel.