Originally posted by Nephthys
http://rule34-images.paheal.net/_images/637d18b36254a983d8ff9c82a6ceaa31/743128%20-%20Tornado%20inanimate.jpgSooooo Epic.
I like how his dong is ruining everyone's crops.
Originally posted by Nephthys
http://rule34-images.paheal.net/_images/637d18b36254a983d8ff9c82a6ceaa31/743128%20-%20Tornado%20inanimate.jpgSooooo Epic.
I like how his dong is ruining everyone's crops.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtI am not comparing it to any one game in particular. Dragon Age, Diablo, Mass Effect, Halo, Half-Life, Dungeon Siege, KotoR, Assassin's Creed, Prince of Persia and many more. I do not use any one game in specific when I review a game. I use bits and pieces from everywhere. From all the games I have liked, and I compare with things I do as well as do not like in other games.
What sort of character dialogues are you comparing it to though? As for the combat system, its pretty much an overhaul of oblivion but again, what are you comparing it to? For its genre and game style its the best I have seen although I agree on the bugs and how Dragons were far too easy. However, the atmosphere and the world itself blows any other out of the water.Also you can make the world view you differently in some respects, depending on what your doing and what quest lines you have done people talk about or make comments on your accomplishments in the companions or the mage college, or in certain battles you may have been in. I would say 7 or 8 out of 10 myself and in a few months when mods change certain things and patches fix bugs it could be an easy 9/10.
As for 5/10, I want a piece of the game you seem to be comparing it to.
I have good things to say about the game, of course, but my interpretation of NemeBro was that he was after criticism of the game.
And in case I am not stressing this enough: This is my opinion. My personal score. When I cleared and while I was doing the College of Winterhold quest chain, a few people acknowledged the transpiring event, but it did not really affect the world in any way. The moment the quest chain was completed, it was as if it had never happened, aside from the occasional "Did you hear about the Mage's College?" line from people you pass on the street and lines like it.
Your character had next to no identity, which was my primary point. The combat system was slow, no matter if it was an overhaul from Oblivion or not. That does not change that it was slow. You actually have to PAUSE if you want to use a 3rd ability (Bar voice)
I see, well most of those should not be compared imo to every other type of game, I thought you were comparing it to another RPG of a similiar type although most of the games you listed, if not all of them are in some way scripted heavily especially when compared to Skyrim so maybe thats your main problem with it.
I just thought it was a curious opinion and wanted to know where it was coming from, although its true everything you do is not massively far reaching to the point everyone knows your exploits you can say the same for most games you mentioned here, Mass effect iirc also uses a similiar combat system in having to pause it to choose various abilities and Dragon age people often pause the game constantly and play entirely from the pause menu only to watch the outcome almost alike to turn base.
Skyrim has a vast number of things those games do not compare to though, would you rate all those games as better in score than Skyrim? In Skyrim the character actually is yours, created by you and developed by you wheras by comparison all the games you listed give you a character who has scripted interactions with most of the characters you meet. I am not sure its possible yet to make a globa unscriptedl A.I for so many characters that can actually give meaningful feedback on so many quests you may have gone on, as you said the game is buggy so adding that assuming it was possible would probably lead to more bugs or crashes.
Also all the games you mentioned are very easy, so are you disapointed that the Dragons or Skyrim in general was simply not harder, or do you find these games hard?
If I find Skyrim easy, of what relevance is it how challenging I find the games I listed? My point is as simple as that there is no challenge in the game. I do not consider the listed games particularly challening either, though I do appreciate the type of challenge that Prince of Persia pose. That's wholly beside the point, though, which is that I did not once in Skyrim fear I was not going to walk out of a fight alive. The first fight against a dragon set up for that feeling, but it never came. I can not enjoy an adventure game in which I can not fear for my character's life.
Every listed game get different score for different reasons. Lowest personal score of those, for me, is the first Diablo game, but that game was still better at making you feel as if your character was worth something than Skyrim. The citizens of Skyrim praised you to the skies for being Dragonborn, but why? I have seen dragons been slain by NPCs alone, without my interfearance. I have defeated dragons without breaking a sweat. I fought two at once without greater worry for my health. So yes, I expected more of a difficulty from Skyrim in general, because of how the world praise you and all that preaching about literally the end of the world.
Interaction with the world via dialogues, NPCs and scrips is not as good as it should be. I am not expecting every individual in the world to be unique, or even provide an invigorating dialogue, but I expect my acts of great heroism to be acknowledged. I saved the world prior to actually saving the world in a sidequest, and the only reward was an item, a pat on the back and a place to stay. Then my accomplishment was over and done with, and the world moved on as if it had never even happened. Heck, even the area of most immediate presence was barely acknowledging my heroism. For a game as praised for its amazing world design as Skyrim, I was immensely disappointed by how little the world seemed to care about you and you saving it.
And I can not remember ever having to pause in Dragon Age or Mass Effect during combat. I had all the abilities I wanted available, and if I did not, it was still not expected of me to pause every time I switch a spell. Only once, during which time it was actually rewarding to have the game paused, analyzing the situation and giving additional commands to your followers. But we are not going to compare Skyrim to Dragon Age. It is not a fair comparison by me to make, given how highly I regard Dragon Age, and I'd fail to be unbiased.
I have to cut this reply short, I'm afraid, so I will conclude by saying that while I had a fairly unrealistic expectation of Skyrim and was doomed to be disappointed, and while I lower its grade from the general opinion based on what I think other games (New and old ones) did better, I do think Skyrim is good at what it is, and it is this that keeps me from saying it is a bad game: A venture into another world. It does an amazing job giving you access to another world.
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
The character dialogues were limited,
If you could show me a game with better scripted character dialogues, I'd be impressed. Having played Dragon Age, Diablo, Mass Effect, Halo, KotoR, and Assassin's Creed, I will not accept those as an answer. estahuh
Admittedly Mass Effect and Dragon Age do benefit from making the actual player dialogue wheels be cutscene-based and allowing you to hold a conversation with multiple people.
But in terms of the dialogue of the background characters, and which game makes the world seem more alive? Skyrim makes both look like jokes.
the controls off-putting,
Sounds like a personal problem. estahuh
But then I am not one of the inferior PC gamers.
the combat system restricted and slow,
Restricted in what way?
And you mentioned later how you had to pause to choose a different spell. Are you aware that you can assign spells, shouts, equipment, etc. to a mini-menu that doesn't make you have to pause, or did you count that as pausing?
it was smothered with bugs,
Sadly often true concerning Bethesda games. Or Bioware, for that matter.
you never felt like the champion that you were portraited as,
Subjective. estahuh
Spoiler:
I know you are not saying it isn't.
dragons were too easy to be the previous conquerors of a world and the impending doom of the current,
Have you toggled the difficulty up after you found the game too easy?
there was solely the illusion of power to change and not the power itself in your hands,
Can't comment on at the moment, since I haven't finished any of the faction questlines short of the Companions Quest.
the AI was bland,
Compared to what?
the criminal path was dysfunctional
I'm not sure what this means.
and there was much content with little reward.
I disagree. estahuh
The game was fun, when it comes to the things any of those games are fun. A unique adventure system, a vast world with a lot of content, an incredible leveling system with vendors and items to compare, but it is just not that refreshing a game for one who wants more out of her gaming than running through cave after cave with little more challenge than what an average bandit pose. Granted, the game is clearly designed around the adventure over the challenge, so I suppose I can not really give much criticism about that.
Once more, what difficulty did you play on?
For me, the game was fun the first time, with the first character. That's it. It was too easy to become powerful and too hard to find the feeling of actually roleplaying. Your character did not seem to have any form of identity, aside from being Dragonborn. You could not make the world view you in a certain way, you could never develop a personality that made your character feel alive, and should you actually manage to develop character in your character, you are not the slightest bit rewarded for it, or punished.
That's fair enough, The Elder Scrolls has never been like a Bioware game that focused on actually helping you create a character that you played (Though the system is arguably more restrictive in what kind of character you play).
Now don't go thinking I think the game is bad per-se. I just can not give it a high score in scale, because it is not the kind of game that I want. While it has aspects that would make it an amazing roleplay, I just can not muster saying it is a good roleplaying game. It is a good game, in that work has been put into the things about it that are good, but that's it.5/10 personal score. [/B]
No, it's the best game ever made, your opinion is wraung. estahuh
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I have good things to say about the game, of course, but my interpretation of NemeBro was that he was after criticism of the game.
Your interpretation was wrong. cry
And in case I am not stressing this enough: This is my opinion. My personal score.
But... Your opinion disagrees with me, surely that is enough to safely say your opinion is wrong?
When I cleared and while I was doing the College of Winterhold quest chain, a few people acknowledged the transpiring event, but it did not really affect the world in any way. The moment the quest chain was completed, it was as if it had never happened, aside from the occasional "Did you hear about the Mage's College?" line from people you pass on the street and lines like it.
Yet if you rob a storekeeper, they will often send thugs to beat you up, and even contact the Dark Brotherhood. estahuh
Even a minor act like stealing a book (That certainly costs less than hiring the Dark Brotherhood mind you) can set off a reaction.
I can't comment on Winterhold, as I have yet to complete it.
Your character had next to no identity, which was my primary point. The combat system was slow, no matter if it was an overhaul from Oblivion or not. That does not change that it was slow. You actually have to PAUSE if you want to use a 3rd ability (Bar voice)
You don't have to pause though. D:
Also, what do you mean by "identity"?
Also, I disagree with the notion that every act you do should be acknowledged by the people around you. I like the fact that when I play Skyrim, I get the sense that the world isn't all about me, that as awesome of a cool guy as I am, people have other shit to worry about.
On another note, hi Q, nice to see you, it's been a little while. :3
Originally posted by Q'Anilia
If I find Skyrim easy, of what relevance is it how challenging I find the games I listed? My point is as simple as that there is no challenge in the game. I do not consider the listed games particularly challening either, though I do appreciate the type of challenge that Prince of Persia pose. That's wholly beside the point, though, which is that I did not once in Skyrim fear I was not going to walk out of a fight alive. The first fight against a dragon set up for that feeling, but it never came. I can not enjoy an adventure game in which I can not fear for my character's life.Every listed game get different score for different reasons. Lowest personal score of those, for me, is the first Diablo game, but that game was still better at making you feel as if your character was worth something than Skyrim. The citizens of Skyrim praised you to the skies for being Dragonborn, but why? I have seen dragons been slain by NPCs alone, without my interfearance. I have defeated dragons without breaking a sweat. I fought two at once without greater worry for my health. So yes, I expected more of a difficulty from Skyrim in general, because of how the world praise you and all that preaching about literally the end of the world.
Interaction with the world via dialogues, NPCs and scrips is not as good as it should be. I am not expecting every individual in the world to be unique, or even provide an invigorating dialogue, but I expect my acts of great heroism to be acknowledged. I saved the world prior to actually saving the world in a sidequest, and the only reward was an item, a pat on the back and a place to stay. Then my accomplishment was over and done with, and the world moved on as if it had never even happened. Heck, even the area of most immediate presence was barely acknowledging my heroism. For a game as praised for its amazing world design as Skyrim, I was immensely disappointed by how little the world seemed to care about you and you saving it.
And I can not remember ever having to pause in Dragon Age or Mass Effect during combat. I had all the abilities I wanted available, and if I did not, it was still not expected of me to pause every time I switch a spell. Only once, during which time it was actually rewarding to have the game paused, analyzing the situation and giving additional commands to your followers. But we are not going to compare Skyrim to Dragon Age. It is not a fair comparison by me to make, given how highly I regard Dragon Age, and I'd fail to be unbiased.
I have to cut this reply short, I'm afraid, so I will conclude by saying that while I had a fairly unrealistic expectation of Skyrim and was doomed to be disappointed, and while I lower its grade from the general opinion based on what I think other games (New and old ones) did better, I do think Skyrim is good at what it is, and it is this that keeps me from saying it is a bad game: A venture into another world. It does an amazing job giving you access to another world.
Because I thought you listed them games as those you thought were better in the areas, therefore I thought you were saying Skyrim is easier than those games. Easy is subjective though, prince of persia is not much of a challenge, I have played the games and you cannot really say its hard, some of the more drawn out agility puzzles can sometimes catch you but its not hard. What level are you? maybe your play style does not suit your enjoyment for the game, because depending on what abilities you use and your level, some dragons can be tough although theres far tougher things than dragons. The thing with difficulty is, I have played those games you listed and I have played games people claim are hard like Dark souls and such, and I have had moments in Skyrim that are harder, possibly because of my level or my class choices than many things in those games.
Does it really? because essentially the game kinda cuts your character completly out of the canon and adds in someone else, I love diablo and its story but personally? the character you play is fairly irrelevent and theres only a tiny handfull of NPCs, I think its harsh to compare the few words NPC's used to Skyrims vast number of them.
You cant expect everyone to know about your explots though can you, if you take a game like the Witcher (not sure if youve played it) or its sequel, it makes sense for people to know a lot about you because you directly work with the people and have a bard who speaks of your trials. While in Skyrim, the Dragonborn works with a select few to save the world, and tbh, most people do not know of the main threat that is Alduin the world eater. I doubt everyone even knows they have been saved is my point.
Well Dragon age does have the pause system as a major part of player even if you did not use it, I assume youve heard of people who use it massively also as for Dragon age, that gives you very small amounts of choice, you can change events long term but where you go is constrained to a few areas and you cant tell me that the NPCs all know what you have done, when I cleared the mages circle or the Dwarven undermines (cant remember the name of it now, but where the huge Iron golem was) the regular folk do not change, only the imediate members related to the quest do.
I agree with this last part, but imo, Skyrim shows you a fully working world that you can travel to almost any part of and allows you to shape who your character is, most of the games you have mentioned toss you into a role with only so much choice of your own and then give you what I like to call the glass corridor to walk through, a corridor in the fact its linear but glass because by looking out of the box you get the feeling that the world is bigger, Dragonage is a good example. In dragon age or any of the games you have listed, theres notihng you can randomly decide to do, like Nemebro said like stealing a book that leads to several different and interesting paths. Small things or large can lead to the world reacting to what your doing, sure people are not yelling your praises at all times but you dont get that many games, hell you do not get a vast world full of interactive NPC's as big as Skyrims in any other games.
I think your right in many aspects but I think the score of 5/10 seems harsh considering the vast amount it does right. its sheer size and number of activities you can do counter imo, small things like having to pause to select a new piece of equipment. As I said before, perhaps such open ended games are not your forte and scripted ones may be better.
The problem with the "small things like having to pause to select a new piece of equipment", is that it removes the sensation that you are going forward. At least for me it does. I can be completely in the zone during a quest or cave, be completely in the mood that the game often so vividly bring you into, and all of a sudden have to press Q because it is necessary that I switch to a Firespell, or healing, or I have to drink a potion. A small thing like having the game still run while you select your new piece of equipment or spell, would make me regard that specific system so much higher. But it freezing just because my character reaches into her pocket? I don't like it. At all. The show should go on, as it would if it had not been a game. What life the great world has so fluently provided is lost in that pausing effect. To me.
The dialogues, they are many, there is a great deal of chatting and talking, and you get to extract information fairly well, but you never get much choice. You can either bring this guy, or you can leave him. You can accept to retreive the wheel for that cart, or you can decline it. I for one did not want to co-operate with Blades, but that choice was not given me. While that would normally not bother me in a game, in one where you are supposed to have so much power of your future as Skyrim, it disappointed. But as I've already mentioned, my expectations are higher than reason ask for. Though that is true for all games. Very few games gain a high score from me.
As for rating it 5/10, I do not consider 5 a harsh grade. It is true that it lets you do things few other games even try, but there is also the opposite. It is lacking A LOT of things that other games offer. I am utterly amazed at how alive the world is, but utterly disappointed at how lacking I consider the rest of the game.
5/10 though, to me, is not a bad score. It is right in the middle. It is not good, and not bad. It is what it was sent out to be, and it was nothing for me. It is a good game, I am big enough to acknowledge that, but it is not a good game for me. It is however not a bad game and therefore does not get less than 5. The things that Skyrim has, are amazing. I love how you maneuver in combat, I love the experience system and I love the world. That is however, to me, not sufficient to give a better grade.
As for this amazing dialogue system that you speak of, I can not see it.
Haven't played Skyrim myself yet(not that hot for the Elder Scrolls series), but Oblivion was quite possibly the most overrated game of the decade and I'd be hard-pressed to give it more than 5/10... on a good day... with patches, expansions and mods installed. Skyrim better be a truly radical step-up from Oblivion.
Originally posted by NemeBro
On another note, hi Q, nice to see you, it's been a little while. :3
I will reply to the rest of the things in a bit, but felt I should acknowledge this!
Hi.
And that's that 😛
Just kidding! Nice seeing you too. It has indeed been a while, though I have been back occasionally. I have a new MSN though, and I failed to remember your e-mail. Add mine if you want to chat later on ([email protected]) 🙂
Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Haven't played Skyrim myself yet(not that hot for the Elder Scrolls series), but Oblivion was quite possibly the most overrated game of the decade and I'd be hard-pressed to give it more than 5/10... on a good day... with patches, expansions and mods installed. Skyrim better be a truly radical step-up from Oblivion.
Skyrim basically IS Oblivion. If you did not like Oblivion for the things that make Oblivion Oblivion, it is unlikely you will like Skyrim.
I think he's referring to things like taking anything from the shelves of a shop, kill (almost) anyone you want, level up with almost only professions, buy estate and maneuver combat on the dime.
At least that's how I chose to interpret what he said. I myself have not played many enough games to know for sure what things are unique to Skyrim and what things are not.
Originally posted by General Kaliero
That's the consensus I've heard. It's Oblivion but prettier.
You don't really have to seek consensus. I don't think there's anyone denying it. Aside from some details, it is the exact same experience. You are some skills short that you had in Oblivion, and the other way around. You have some options in Skyrim that you did not have in Oblivion (I think. Did not play too much of Oblivion) and the quests of the world work in the same manner.
What Skyrim is, is its size. I read somewhere it has over 1300 points of interest, over 300 instances (Some bigger, some smaller), a dozen major cities and many more smaller.