Woohoo, official off-topic thread!

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
I think he's referring to things like taking anything from the shelves of a shop, kill (almost) anyone you want, level up with almost only professions, buy estate and maneuver combat on the dime.

At least that's how I chose to interpret what he said. I myself have not played many enough games to know for sure what things are unique to Skyrim and what things are not.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
You don't really have to seek consensus. I don't think there's anyone denying it. Aside from some details, it is the exact same experience. You are some skills short that you had in Oblivion, and the other way around. You have some options in Skyrim that you did not have in Oblivion (I think. Did not play too much of Oblivion) and the quests of the world work in the same manner.

What Skyrim is, is its size. I read somewhere it has over 1300 points of interest, over 300 instances (Some bigger, some smaller), a dozen major cities and many more smaller.

Really, if you allow all this freedom, why bother with a plot at all? Just admit it's a fantasy sandbox game, since that's what most people do with it anyway.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Honestly? For an RPG, at least for my interpretation of the reasons one plays an RPG, having such a massive amount of content harms the game. It's the same thing that Oblivion was simultaneously praised and slammed for, by different types of gamer.

Really, if you allow all this freedom, why bother with a plot at all? Just admit it's a fantasy sandbox game, since that's what most people do with it anyway.

I found the main story interesting, but underwhelming. It was a great story, it was an epic quest, but it did not deliver all the way. There was too much going on for me to properly enjoy the main quest, but I suppose that simply makes me one of those people who was slamming Oblivion 🙂 I suppose the Elder Scroll games simply are not for me.

I mean, I see why people love it, from an external perspective, but I do not get it. I personally failed to enjoy it more than briefly, but that was because of how overwhelming and amazing the world was. I have not played much Oblivion, so this was basically all new to me, but the amazement lasted only briefly, because after a few instances, it felt like I had done it before. It rapidly became old.

At the same time, I have a friend that can not get enough of going from cave to cave to cave to cave 😛

Originally posted by General Kaliero
I remember doing pretty much all of that in Oblivion.

I meant that as a reply to Peach 😛

I think what some people have problems with the TES series is that it isn't a plot centered game. Like General said, its a Fantasy sandbox. Being a sandbox already hurts the game in its narrative department because they are to busy focus on exploration compared to to games like The Witcher 2 that has limited exploration but focus more on plot.

In other news, I made the most awesome cake ever for my little sister's birthday 😄

Originally posted by General Kaliero
I remember doing pretty much all of that in Oblivion.

Honestly? For an RPG, at least for my interpretation of the reasons one plays an RPG, having such a massive amount of content harms the game. It's the same thing that Oblivion was simultaneously praised and slammed for, by different types of gamer.

Really, if you allow all this freedom, why bother with a plot at all? Just admit it's a fantasy sandbox game, since that's what most people do with it anyway.

Even sandbox games have a plot. 😬

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even sandbox games have a plot. 😬

edit: what does the cake look like.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even sandbox games have a plot. 😬

Sandbox games always have a very thin plot that's generally fairly optional.

Certainly not enough plot to be an RPG, which is supposed to be very plot-heavy.

Originally posted by Phanteros
Not the the point he's trying to make(I think). Because the game offers to much freedom one won't be bother by the plot at all.

edit: what does the cake look like.

Rainbow cake 😄 French vanilla layer cake with the layers all dyed rainbow colors with berry filling and cream cheese frosting.

Thats inherently flawed game design. If you just have a big sandbox game with no actual plot then you run the risk of your players just wandering around confused and they'll quickly get bored. You need something to get them into the world and exploring, move them from place to place and get them want to find the rest of the world. A sandbox game without any plot would be like a sitcom that was just a bunch of jokes told in succession. Even Family Guy has a semblence of a plot for crying out loud.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats inherently flawed game design. If you just have a big sandbox game with no actual plot then you run the risk of your players just wandering around confused and they'll quickly get bored. You need something to get them into the world and exploring, move them from place to place and get them want to find the rest of the world. A sandbox game without any plot would be like a sitcom that was just a bunch of jokes told in succession. Even Family Guy has a semblence of a plot for crying out loud.

See, and when I played Oblivion - that was all I did. Wander around aimlessly because the plot was so thin and spread so far apart that you could wander for hours and never encounter a single plot quest. In the three hours I played, I certainly didn't. It was extremely boring.

They may have some plot...but if the game is essentially a sandbox game, don't tout up the plot as this amazing thing, because there's not going to be much of one at all.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even sandbox games have a plot. 😬

Alternatively the plot can be non-existent, or minimized, or generated by player action instead of being pre-scripted, such as in the 4X genre, or The Sims, or Second Life. A plot isn't necessary to the genre.

My point is that, if you're trying to tell a story, tell a story with some sidequests that add to it in some way. If you're gonna build a massive world and just allow players to explore it at their whims... just focus on that part of it. I'm sure a ton of work went into a plot that a great number of players will never see because they've been drawn away by too much freedom.

Originally posted by Peach
See, and when I played Oblivion - that was all I did. Wander around aimlessly because the plot was so thin and spread so far apart that you could wander for hours and never encounter a single plot quest. In the three hours I played, I certainly didn't. It was extremely boring.

They may have some plot...but if the game is essentially a sandbox game, don't tout up the plot as this amazing thing, because there's not going to be much of one at all.

Its not exactly difficult to find the plot quests. It sounds like you just don't like sandbox games. Or didn't put any effort into it.

I don't think anyones said that its the greatest plot ever. But an Elder Scrolls game isn't focused on a centralised plot. You might as well criticise a Madden game for having a shitty plot.

watching a skyward sword walkthrough since i dont have a wii

hurrrduurr

YouTube video

Originally posted by General Kaliero
They can, but it's not a required part of the formula, and if it's present it's typically overshadowed by everything else. The GTA series, Oblivion, Fallout, WoW, all examples of such.

Alternatively the plot can be non-existent, or minimized, or generated by player action instead of being pre-scripted, such as in the 4X genre, or The Sims, or Second Life. A plot isn't necessary to the genre.

My point is that, if you're trying to tell a story, tell a story with some sidequests that add to it in some way. If you're gonna build a massive world and just allow players to explore it at their whims... just focus on that part of it. I'm sure a ton of work went into a plot that a great number of players will never see because they've been drawn away by too much freedom.

You have played Second Life? 🙂

New Old Link has > paper cut level durability.

Paste will be happy.

Originally posted by Q'Anilia
You have played Second Life? 🙂

Originally posted by General Kaliero
I installed it and did the introductory stuff, but no more than that. I'm not a terribly social person, even in online environments.

Oh. I have been wanting to try it, but never taken myself the time to do so 😛 It looks fun.

Originally posted by FinalAnswer
YouTube video

edit: Nevermind. It wasn't that video, but something similar... Good times.

YouTube video

And that's awesome to hear about the cake Peach. It is in fact not a lie. 😛

SKYWARD SWORD IS AWESOME.

Better than your grandmother.