well the point of my post s that the rules say that they are banned unless their invuleralbe parts are removed, yet none of the characters in the list have omnipotence/omnicicence so it would confuse anyone looking at it, Pyron is fair game to anyone, he doesnt have a plot device and Ganon although he has a plot device is still "defeatable" since in a debate you dont have to kill the opponent to defeat them.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtWell Pyron's full power is almost totally ambiguous, we know almost nothing about it. Pyron DID need a plot device to be defeated, him limiting himself was the device.
well the point of my post s that the rules say that they are banned unless their invuleralbe parts are removed, yet none of the characters in the list have omnipotence/omnicicence so it would confuse anyone looking at it, Pyron is fair game to anyone, he doesnt have a plot device and Ganon although he has a plot device is still "defeatable" since in a debate you dont have to kill the opponent to defeat them.
Ganon is not unkillable. Ganon is INVULNERABLE. He is like the Juggernaut of videogames, only much more versatile, so BFR is out of the question. Ganon is not able to be harmed at all without a plot device.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Well Pyron's full power is almost totally ambiguous, we know almost nothing about it. Pyron DID need a plot device to be defeated, him limiting himself was the device.Ganon is not unkillable. Ganon is INVULNERABLE. He is like the Juggernaut of videogames, only much more versatile, so BFR is out of the question. Ganon is not able to be harmed at all without a plot device.
The same is about most beings, many would claim the same about Kain (not just me), Sephiroth and many others, and him limiting himself is not a "device" as such, more of a PIS. He has still been defeated either way and his larger forms have no set endurance apart from the logic you can accumulate from his size and mass.
Ganon is not invulerable, thats hyperbole, when the plot device is an item it would be hyperbole to think no other item, especially if its just arrows of light (light energy which can be formed by many beings in fiction) means that its likely he can be harmed by other sources, otherwise your making a no limits fallacy.
But he can be defeated, if Pyron held Ganon down and he couldnt move or through other means he was left incapaciated the attacker would win.
Originally posted by Burning thoughtAnd the fact that even mortal Pyron can reconstruct his body or just let attacks go through him. Pyron's full power is totally unknown, we have not seen him fight anyone, everything he does while at full power, he does effortlessly(his best feat being taking the Earth from the sun's orbit).
The same is about most beings, many would claim the same about Kain (not just me), Sephiroth and many others, and him limiting himself is not a "device" as such, more of a PIS. He has still been defeated either way and his larger forms have no set endurance apart from the logic you can accumulate from his size and mass.Ganon is not invulerable, thats hyperbole, when the plot device is an item it would be hyperbole to think no other item, especially if its just arrows of light (light energy which can be formed by many beings in fiction) means that its likely he can be harmed by other sources, otherwise your making a no limits fallacy.
But he can be defeated, if Pyron held Ganon down and he couldnt move or through other means he was left incapaciated the attacker would win.
Ganon's invulnerability is granted by an omnipotent being, a being with no limits. It is not a fallacy, if the being literally has no limits in that regard. But because Ganon is evil, it makes some wonky loophole where the Master Sword and Light Arrows, weapons made by the goddesses, omnipotent beings, and were literally made to fight him.
Well sure. But that is an extreme case. But there are not many beings capable of such a thing.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
And the fact that even mortal Pyron can reconstruct his body or just let attacks go through him. Pyron's full power is totally unknown, we have not seen him fight anyone, everything he does while at full power, he does effortlessly(his best feat being taking the Earth from the sun's orbit).Ganon's invulnerability is granted by an omnipotent being, a being with no limits. It is not a fallacy, if the being literally has no limits in that regard. But because Ganon is evil, it makes some wonky loophole where the Master Sword and Light Arrows, weapons made by the goddesses, omnipotent beings, and were literally made to fight him.
Well sure. But that is an extreme case. But there are not many beings capable of such a thing.
But still, as I said before, nothing points to undefetable, many Warcraft charactes likely have combinations of magic that could bother him, group battles against him would be fine as well.
I thot it was simply graned by the triforce of power, a power that was created by an omnipotent being?
I dunno, theres probably hundreds, using a combination of TK and time powers Kain could make Ganon unable to defeat him or move for longer than a few seconds at a time, thats a bit like incapaciation, not permanent mind you. But thats just one example, Ime sure many Warcraft characters could just delete him from excistence like becci said about malygos excistence disintegration ray.
A more important value to be taken away during a battle would be Kains destiny "undefeatability"
Originally posted by Burning thought1. Undefeatable? No. Unknown. Virtually nothing is known about him...But btw, the taking Earth out of sun's orbit thing, that feat>>>All feats in Warcraft in terms of pure energy and power it would take to do it.
But still, as I said before, nothing points to undefetable, many Warcraft charactes likely have combinations of magic that could bother him, group battles against him would be fine as well.I thot it was simply graned by the triforce of power, a power that was created by an omnipotent being?
I dunno, theres probably hundreds, using a combination of TK and time powers Kain could make Ganon unable to defeat him or move for longer than a few seconds at a time, thats a bit like incapaciation, not permanent mind you. But thats just one example, Ime sure many Warcraft characters could just delete him from excistence like becci said about malygos excistence disintegration ray.
A more important value to be taken away during a battle would be Kains destiny "undefeatability"
2. Which is a blessing from Din, each piece of the Triforce is a blessing from one of the Goddesses and allows you to tap into their power.
3. TK wouldn't work really, Zant alone has TK comparable to Kain's. Time would only be temporary, and the bolts are avoidable. Existance disintegration? Like what the Light Arrows do? Yet they can't even kill Ganon without the Triforce of Power.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Undefeatable? No. Unknown. Virtually nothing is known about him...But btw, the taking Earth out of sun's orbit thing, that feat>>>All feats in Warcraft in terms of pure energy and power it would take to do it.2. Which is a blessing from Din, each piece of the Triforce is a blessing from one of the Goddesses and allows you to tap into their power.
3. TK wouldn't work really, Zant alone has TK comparable to Kain's. Time would only be temporary, and the bolts are avoidable. Existance disintegration? Like what the Light Arrows do? Yet they can't even kill Ganon without the Triforce of Power.
1. maybe but it doesnt sound impressive either in a battle situation.
2. yeh but where does it say it allows them to tap into the entire omnipotence part of it? I mean tapping into it is all very well but if he was protected by an omnipotent force he wouldnt be stopped by any light arrows or Master sword either.
3. still Zant could perhaps hold Ganon down, as i say, you would only have to stop the opponent form moving, can Ganon teleport or go ethereal?
Also what about continually casting time bolt? lets say Kain hit Ganon with one, it froze him, but then Kain continually cast it, or cast it a second before the duration of the first ended, does that count as incapaciation since the guy doesnt actually move?
Also does it say somewhere that Ganons mind is invuleralbe? theres more than one way to defeat/kill someone, the fact he cannot be killed by impalement doesnt necesserily mean he can survive having his soul ripped out or blood devoured.
Originally posted by Burning thought1. Well if he did it physically, he could physically in one blow murk...Well nearly anyone in Warcraft(though he could do that before😛). If with his powers, don't know.
1. maybe but it doesnt sound impressive either in a battle situation.2. yeh but where does it say it allows them to tap into the entire omnipotence part of it? I mean tapping into it is all very well but if he was protected by an omnipotent force he wouldnt be stopped by any light arrows or Master sword either.
3. still Zant could perhaps hold Ganon down, as i say, you would only have to stop the opponent form moving, can Ganon teleport or go ethereal?
Also what about continually casting time bolt? lets say Kain hit Ganon with one, it froze him, but then Kain continually cast it, or cast it a second before the duration of the first ended, does that count as incapaciation since the guy doesnt actually move?
Also does it say somewhere that Ganons mind is invuleralbe? theres more than one way to defeat/kill someone, the fact he cannot be killed by impalement doesnt necesserily mean he can survive having his soul ripped out or blood devoured.
2. Oh I never said that. Only that an omnipotent being protects him, but since he is evil he does not get the full protection(or some stupid shit like that). And the Light Arrows and Master Sword are also artifacts of the Gods.
3. ...Dude, all of Zant's powers are from Ganon, everything Zant does he is doing with a minute fraction of Ganon's power. And Ganon can teleport and go ethereal, and while ethereal in Twilight Princess he can possess people.
4. ...Well then they would both never moves since Kain would have to stay there and keep on doing it. 😐
5. Soul powers won't work, his soul is untouched by the Twilight Realm, so that proves his soul is immune. Mind, well I'm not sure actually.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. Well if he did it physically, he could physically in one blow murk...Well nearly anyone in Warcraft(though he could do that before😛). If with his powers, don't know.2. Oh I never said that. Only that an omnipotent being protects him, but since he is evil he does not get the full protection(or some stupid shit like that). And the Light Arrows and Master Sword are also artifacts of the Gods.
3. ...Dude, all of Zant's powers are from Ganon, everything Zant does he is doing with a minute fraction of Ganon's power. And Ganon can teleport and go ethereal, and while ethereal in Twilight Princess he can possess people.
4. ...Well then they would both never moves since Kain would have to stay there and keep on doing it. 😐
5. Soul powers won't work, his soul is untouched by the Twilight Realm, so that proves his soul is immune. Mind, well I'm not sure actually.
2. oh okie then, hmm, well perhaps some force will destroy him then, a force that has a diffrent attack vantage, (from the inside or w/e) or something.
3. but still.
4. sure but surely Kain is doing the winning since hes the one doing it, technically, same with a holding someone down, pyron would win since he can do it indefinaltey sa well, even if he would have to stay and hold Ganon down.
5. well perhaps mind is an option
Originally posted by Burning thought1. ...Wut
2. oh okie then, hmm, well perhaps some force will destroy him then, a force that has a diffrent attack vantage, (from the inside or w/e) or something.3. but still.
4. sure but surely Kain is doing the winning since hes the one doing it, technically, same with a holding someone down, pyron would win since he can do it indefinaltey sa well, even if he would have to stay and hold Ganon down.
5. well perhaps mind is an option
2. ...Wut
3. But both would be locked in battle foreva. And Pyron can just use that strength along with speed to you know...Move Ganon a few galaxies away. 😐
4. Maybe.
Originally posted by Becci
Have you read what we spoke of last page? I say what I have always said: [b]There is no such thing as an Immovable Object. Just like with the Unstoppable Force, it is all a matter of relevance. An Immovable Object in for example Final Fantasy might very much so be moved by an Unstoppable Force from Warcraft.An object is only always relatively Immovable. This is mere speculations of course, since an Immovable Object has never clashed with an Unstoppable Force. [/B]
I did read it all, but i said if there was an unstoppable force. i never said technically there was, i just had an idea. quit assumming stuff. i was just curious, that is all. and thank you and BT for answering anyways
Originally posted by k1Lla441
I did read it all, but i said [b]if there was an unstoppable force. i never said technically there was, i just had an idea. quit assumming stuff. i was just curious, that is all. and thank you and BT for answering anyways [/B]
What did I assume? ermm Did I offend you somehow?
I would say that an Unstoppable Force could never clash with an Immovable Object. One of the two forces would prove false. One would break before the other. Which one that would is out of my hands. I would guess that the Unstoppable Force budges to the Immovable.
The true destruction would probably rise if two Unstoppabe Force clashed. If an Unstoppable Force meets an Immovable object, it is most likely that they cancel eachother out. If an Unstoppable Force met another, some flashy stuff could happen.
Originally posted by k1Lla441...Nah. haermm
srry this might disapoint you jaxx, but i dont know much about ganon. ive played a lot of the zelda games but havent really payed attention to him, besides the fact that he is evil. can you give me some proofzz or somethin about ganon? would really appreciate it 😉