Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Yeah, sorry about that, the quote of Pyron being omniscient was actually said by himself, and as such is fallible, and the omnipotence part was most likely just hyperbole.He is just pretty much an unknown.
...Holy shit, 2 of my favorite characters were just perma banned. 😐
No, just restricted unless certain points are involved in first post 😉
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Well, what would you suggest I put instead?I have no knowledge whatsoever of this series, after all.
Not sure actually. I can not think of any omniscient or omnipotent game characters. But if you want to add something about Pyron, I would say something in the ways of "impervious" or something 😛 He is after all a massive entity that dwarves planets and can replenish lost pieces of his body and reconstruct however he desires.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Not IMO.There is an always will be a problem with omnipotence.
God is omnipotent right?
Can God create a rock that he cannot lift?
Ganon himself has powers over the fabrics of reality. Many characters have shown resistance to reality warping.
- God can create a rock so big that he himself can not lift it only if he would to limit himself. What is your point with this? That the clash between two omnipotent entities would be futile?
- Not saying Malygos white blast is an Unstoppable Force. Neltharion dissolved it, so saying it is Unstoppable would be false (Did so while carrying the Demon Soul, but that is not the point).
Originally posted by Becci1. The fact that he has to limit himself in order to not do something is a limit in of itself. A clash between two omnipotents realistically would be impossible, realistically it would be impossible for two omnipotents to coexist, if they could not defeat eachother, that is a limit. My only real point is, is that there is always a limit.
- God can create a rock so big that he himself can not lift it only if he would to limit himself. What is your point with this? That the clash between two omnipotent entities would be futile?- Not saying Malygos white blast is an Unstoppable Force. Neltharion dissolved it, so saying it is Unstoppable would be false (Did so while carrying the Demon Soul, but that is not the point).
2. ROFLCOPTER.
Omnipotence means being all-powerful. So sure, he could probably create a rock so big that he himself could not lift it, but he could probably also amp his own strength to the point where he can lift it.
The existance of two omnipotent is by all sense possible, for as long as the two would be fine with co-existance. If a fight between the two broke out, it would not be a long one, and the quickest, most creative would be the sole survivor.
Merely theoreticly speaking of course. There is no way to prove anything that involve omnipotence, since such a thing does for all that we know not exist.
Originally posted by Becci1. The fact that he needs to amp himself once again is a limit my friend. And lemme ask you this, can God create a rock he could NEVER lift?
Omnipotence means being all-powerful. So sure, he could probably create a rock so big that he himself could not lift it, but he could probably also amp his own strength to the point where he can lift it.The existance of two omnipotent is by all sense possible, for as long as the two would be fine with co-existance. If a fight between the two broke out, it would not be a long one, and the quickest, most creative would be the sole survivor.
Merely theoreticly speaking of course. There is no way to prove anything that involve omnipotence, since such a thing does for all that we know not exist.
2. Impossible. Omnipotence without Omniscience is completely impossible, as if you are limited by your mind, that is a limit, and with Omniscience, both would be as intelligent and creative. Neither could come out on top.
3. True.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
1. The fact that he needs to amp himself once again is a limit my friend. And lemme ask you this, can God create a rock he could NEVER lift?2. Impossible. Omnipotence without Omniscience is completely impossible, as if you are limited by your mind, that is a limit, and with Omniscience, both would be as intelligent and creative. Neither could come out on top.
3. True.
1.1. It is a limit at his current physical capabilities and not a limit to his powers. An Aladdin genie is virtually omnipotent and has yet been seen with limitations at physical attributes such as speed and endurance (To relative degree).
1.2. God can not create a rock he could never lift, because he is unlimited. You can not add a limit to being limitless. That would be like making walls surrounding our supposively infinite universe. It is not a limit to not being able to defeat yourself trough indirect magic tricks. Most properly put, it is an 'unlimit'.
2. Omniscience merely means that you know everything. While knowing everything leaves little left to unique behaviour, having all knowledge there is, is still just that. Knowledge. Your mind is more than just knowledge. There are a vast amount of ways to deal with various scenarios, which would involve various aspects of your mind: Wisdom, Intellect, Knowledge, Experience, Personal Ideals, Emotions, Creativity, Inpredictability and so on. There is more to everything than knowledge.
Originally posted by Becci1. So there is a limit to his physical strength? Omnipotence is unlimited power, you can do anything. That is a limit. Omnipotence means unlimited strength, speed, durability, power, unlimited everything.
1.1. It is a limit at his current physical capabilities and not a limit to his powers. An Aladdin genie is virtually omnipotent and has yet been seen with limitations at physical attributes such as speed and endurance (To relative degree).1.2. God can not create a rock he could never lift, because he is unlimited. You can not add a limit to being limitless. That would be like making walls surrounding our supposively infinite universe. It is not a limit to not being able to defeat yourself trough indirect magic tricks. Most properly put, it is an 'unlimit'.
2. Omniscience merely means that you know everything. While knowing everything leaves little left to unique behaviour, having all knowledge there is, is still just that. Knowledge. Your mind is more than just knowledge. There are a vast amount of ways to deal with various scenarios, which would involve various aspects of your mind: Wisdom, Intellect, Knowledge, Experience, Personal Ideals, Emotions, Creativity, Inpredictability and so on. There is more to everything than knowledge.
2. So he can't create a rock he cannot lift? That means there is something out of the reach of his own power, and as such, IS a limit. If God cannot do something, he is limited to a degree.
3. Not just knowledge. EVERYTHING. There is nothing that someone else can know that you cannot. Wisdom? You are beyond wise, you know it all. Intellect? Your mind is unlimited and all reaching, your intellect cannot possibly be rivaled. Experience? You know everything that is, was, and ever will be better than anyone who has, is, or will experience it, such is its nature. Personal ideals? Well...You are Omniscient, with a mind like that you could essentially do anything within your physical limits, and if you are truly Omnipotent, that should mean you could do anything. Emotions? You know every emotion to its finest detail, but sure, you don't have to experience them all if you choose not to. Creativity? You know all that is, has, will be, and can be. Creativity is not a problem. Unpredictability? With Omniscience, you can know exactly what would be unpredictable to what. Omniscience is not just knowledge, it is everything.
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
Not really.I'm just doing this cause it's late and I'm bored. 😛
I typically don't get in religious debates cause you will get flamed by either the Bible Thumpers of the Atheists if you disagree with them, but since I know Becci I do not have to worry about that. 131
It's really more a philosophical debate than a religious one, as omniscience and omnipotence are general concepts and don't necessarily have anything to do any specific higher being.
I generally avoid religious debates because I generally get the rabid nuts all pissed at me ermm
Originally posted by Peach...K. 😂
It's really more a philosophical debate than a religious one, as omniscience and omnipotence are general concepts and don't necessarily have anything to do any specific higher being.I generally avoid religious debates because I generally get the rabid nuts all pissed at me ermm
Yeah, I got into a religious debate at school with this girl who was a major bible thumper, which ended with her yelling at me, calling me an idiot, and saying I was going to Hell. ermm
Originally posted by Dark-Jaxx
...K. 😂Yeah, I got into a religious debate at school with this girl who was a major bible thumper, which ended with her yelling at me, calling me an idiot, and saying I was going to Hell. ermm
Originally posted by General Kaliero
Doncha love how they always condemn you to Hell? "You disagree with me, and since I'm obviously perfect you're screwed."
Yeah, that always annoys me. I mean, yeah, it's been a pretty long time since the last time I was in church or looked at a bible, but I'm pretty sure it said something along the lines of God forgiving everyone. And that no one is perfect. And that's fine.
...pointing out stuff like that got me kicked out of CCD when I was a kid. No wonder I was an atheist by 13 ermm 😛