Classic Juggernaut vs World War Hulk

Started by janus7718 pages

got any scans for the unconscious/vulnerable brain thing regarding juggernaut?

also, no Hulk's strength/power doesn't grow linearly but in a way closer to exponential growth. it's been confirmed in many many many instances where a manifold increase in his strength/durability/adaptation (grabbing things that "can't be grabbed"😉 has occured in a short space of time.

as we're seeing in WW Hulk too, he goes from being thrown backwards by BB's voice to being almost unaffected by his full on scream...

the "madder he gets, stronger he gets" is just a simplified formulation for the basic relationship that seems to exist between his stress/anger levels and his power levels.

Originally posted by h1a8
All of this is not to say that Hulk wins but just to give info.
Imo, I think since Juggs can't be hurt physically with his shield up then it is at least a stalemate (disregarding BFR of course) for him. But it has stated by marvel that Juggs can be knocked out. His brain is vulnerable to being jarred from powerful strikes to the head and can lose conscienceness. But one must either strike him with an emormous amount of power to the head or just continue to pound at a rate faster than he can heal/regain his order.

That's B.S. Marvel hasn't stated the Juggernaut can be knocked out by physical force. Juggernaut's invulnerability isn't tied to his shield. Plus even if it was, he has a healing factor as powerful or more powerful than the Hulks. Add to the fact that Juggernaut does not need any major organs to move/fight/stay alive (he was stripped of his flesh leaving only his bones). So that just throws your theory out the window.

Originally posted by janus77
got any scans for the unconscious/vulnerable brain thing regarding juggernaut?

also, no Hulk's strength/power doesn't grow linearly but in a way closer to exponential growth. it's been confirmed in many many many instances where a manifold increase in his strength/durability/adaptation (grabbing things that "can't be grabbed"😉 has occured in a short space of time.

as we're seeing in WW Hulk too, he goes from being thrown backwards by BB's voice to being almost unaffected by his full on scream...

the "madder he gets, stronger he gets" is just a simplified formulation for the basic relationship that seems to exist between his stress/anger levels and his power levels.

I have no scans. But I'm not saying Juggs has been knocked out before. He has been jarred several times though. And I got the info about Juggs able to be jarred from both bios and on panel showings. So I speculated that since his brain can be affected (by mental powers) and that can be jarred by physical force, then it stands to reason that he can be rendered unconscience. For being jarred means to be on the verge of unconscienceness. Thus by pounding faster than he can recover would certainly cause him to lose conscienceness. Or pounding him once with sufficient force. But all that is moot since he has a shield.

Second, when I say linearly I not talking about time but anger/stress level. For example, his anger/stress level can jump exponentially (to time) and thus causing his strength to do likewise. Or his anger level can jump linearly (to time) and cause his strength to do likewise. It is just that his strength grows linearly to his anger/stress level and not necessarily time. But it is possible that his strength can grow exponentially to time provided that his anger/stress does. See I can be reasonable can I.

Originally posted by h1a8
I did some research (some was in vain as I already knew most of it).
But many here one this forum argue "who is stronger". When strength (or force) is nowhere near as important as power. Yes power! Jumping ability is dependant on strength and speed. One has to be able to summon strength in a sufficient amount of time in order to leap a certain distance. Juggs has never leaped the distances Hulk has. So it is obviously that he lacks the power Hulk has. Also power (not strength) affects punching damage (or punching power).

What are you trying to say, That Hulk is stronger because he can generate more power?

actually depowered Juggy has lept VERY far distances... the main reason he doesnt is he preferes to walk

Originally posted by Apolloknight
What are you trying to say, That Hulk is stronger because he can generate more power?

Well since one would need power in order to be strong that would seem like a really good argument.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Well since one would need power in order to be strong that would seem like a really good argument.

Yes and no, although some points hold true, its not everything.

The strength to jump far or high is not only linked to how big or strong ones muscles are, I guarantee you, the strongest men in the world cant hold a candle to the Olympic level long jumpers who clear
27ft on a regular basis. I have also seen guys who solely play basketball and can dunk with utter ease, but can barely squat 200lbs, all while not even clearing 6ft in height.

So the point is moot, although he is right in saying you must generate "power" to jump a certain distance, most of the power is derived from technique and skill, as jumping is more then just using your two legs (there are lots of factors to consider, arm motion, body placement, momentum, etc).

Same is said of punching power, Just because someone can punch harder then someone else, Doesn't mean they are stronger. Again, technique and skill come into play, as punching power Doesn't come from physical strength alone.

So just because hulk may exhibit more power because he can "Jump" further, Doesn't mean he is absolutely stronger.

Originally posted by Apolloknight
Yes and no, although some points hold true, its not everything.

The strength to jump far or high is not only linked to how big or strong ones muscles are, I guarantee you, the strongest men in the world cant hold a candle to the Olympic level long jumpers who clear
27ft on a regular basis. I have also seen guys who solely play basketball and can dunk with utter ease, but can barely squat 200lbs, all while not even clearing 6ft in height.

So the point is moot, although he is right in saying you must generate "power" to jump a certain distance, most of the power is derived from technique and skill, as jumping is more then just using your two legs (there are lots of factors to consider, arm motion, body placement, momentum, etc).

Same is said of punching power, Just because someone can punch harder then someone else, Doesn't mean they are stronger. Again, technique is skill come into play, as punching power Doesn't come from physical strength alone.

So just because hulk may exhibit more power because he can"Jump" father, Doesn't mean he is absolutely stronger.

Yes Hulk's immense levels of martial skill must be the thing responsible for the devastating power of his punches as SavageHulk.

Skill counts for a lot, I'll give you that, but the vast majority of Hulk's feats don't display anything of the sort. Traditionally he relied only on force, being the antithesis of Banner's conscious psyche he didn't really get much of a choice.

Perhaps he does have some level of skill, but even then since he displays feats of strength across the board without training he would have to possess a huge reserve of power.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Yes Hulk's immense levels of martial skill must be the thing responsible for the devastating power of his punches as SavageHulk.

Skill counts for a lot, I'll give you that, but the vast majority of Hulk's feats don't display anything of the sort. Traditionally he relied only on force, being the antithesis of Banner's conscious psyche he didn't really get much of a choice.

Perhaps he does have some level of skill, but even then since he displays feats of strength across the board without training he would have to possess a huge reserve of power.

I don't think Hulk has huge martial arts skill (I know your joking) but I do believe he is more skilled then juggernaut, even more so with this incantation of War Hulk, The great Gladiator, Even Gladiators where shown to exhibit decent skill in fighting.

But I agree, Most of Hulks feats have derived from Pure strength alone, I'm just simply trying to downplay the fact that Just because one can jump further isnt 100% proof they are stronger.

Originally posted by Harry Fingerman
Thing made Hulk bleed, and hurt him from a couple punches... 😐

Overpower his magic charm? That's not even funny... I don't even know why you think that's feasible.

So what? Hulk brushed it off and beat the crap out of thing.

Same thing happened with Jugs. Jugs kocked him down...then he got right back up and started pounding back.

Jugs started pushing against the Hulk...hulk didn't move...the floor was gonna give way first. I mean...I know marvel has a bias towards the mystics...but Hulks strength is very much like an enchantment...limitless strength and all. Hell, it even impressed the Beyonder.

And in any case, enchanted or not...Juggy is as dumb as a bag of nails...and the fact is, he couldn't stop the hulk...

Originally posted by h1a8
I have no scans. But I'm not saying Juggs has been knocked out before. He has been jarred several times though. And I got the info about Juggs able to be jarred from both bios and on panel showings. So I speculated that since his brain can be affected (by mental powers) and that can be jarred by physical force, then it stands to reason that he can be rendered unconscience. For being jarred means to be on the verge of unconscienceness. Thus by pounding faster than he can recover would certainly cause him to lose conscienceness. Or pounding him once with sufficient force. But all that is moot since he has a shield.

Second, when I say linearly I not talking about time but anger/stress level. For example, his anger/stress level can jump exponentially (to time) and thus causing his strength to do likewise. Or his anger level can jump linearly (to time) and cause his strength to do likewise. It is just that his strength grows linearly to his anger/stress level and not necessarily time. But it is possible that his strength can grow exponentially to time provided that his anger/stress does. See I can be reasonable can I.


indeed, that does sound reasonable.

I think it's quite telling that Beyonder, Celestial tech by way of Apocalypse and many other beings with access to or imbued with genuinely godly powers have commented on the point that The Hulk does possess infinite powers. the Apocalypse scan, where he relays that his Celestial tech sees the energies that The Hulk +generates+ as perhaps being significant enough to present a challenge to The Celestials. Apocalypse himself states his disgust at the perverse irony of an 'inferior' being (Hulk) possessing such superior power...

and of course The Beyonder states that Hulk possesses access to similarly infinite energies as he himself does.

the point about jumping, leaping etc is definitely a telling one. Hulk's muscles function to a level well and above anything juggernaut's even have been shown to. he had to be transported by Cyttorak to face Hulk, if the situation were reversed, Hulk would just jump over there in a few moments.

also, things such as his ability to rend matter/energy, to grab and tear energy fields suggests that even The Hulk is barely aware of the scope and depths of his powers.

I doubt Juggernaut has anything like 100% access to Cyttorak's powers and more over, that Cyttorak would just sit there and watch as one of his charms sucks up substantial levels of his powers. he's going to cut his losses and let the charm be broken.

imo, the Bruce Banner-Hulk split (well the many many split personalities) retard the Hulk's exploration of his powers to a significant extent. Banner's never embraced his powers, fearing the loss of his conscious, rational self, in the rush of anger and sensation that comes with The Hulk, and The Hulk has always ignored his own powers by merely using them crudely. I'd like to see this Hulk or perhaps Banners (since, if the Strange thing is legit, Banner seems to be cooperating with Hulk) investigate and develop The Hulk's powers.

clearly they are extra-dimensional and not purely physical. they may be a form of matter manipulation, as someone here theorised, or they maybe something else entirely, but it'd be interested to ask the fundamental question about how a 'gamma bomb explosion' could have possibly led to a being with such powers?

Originally posted by Apolloknight
What are you trying to say, That Hulk is stronger because he can generate more power?

No. I'm saying that Hulk has more power (not strength).
Strength means nothing and power means everything.
Power is the speed in which one can summon strength.
In physics Power=Strength x Speed.
Power determines how hard you can punch, jump, etc.
Strength determines how much you can lift and that's it (since you can lift slowly).
A skinny kung-fu master can strike much harder than a large bodybuilder who is stronger. A professional baseball pitcher can throw much harder than a large bodybuilder who can be equally limber.

The proof that Hulk has more power than Juggs is through the leaping distances of both.

Originally posted by picoico
So what? Hulk brushed it off and beat the crap out of thing.

Same thing happened with Jugs. Jugs kocked him down...then he got right back up and started pounding back.

Jugs started pushing against the Hulk...hulk didn't move...the floor was gonna give way first. I mean...I know marvel has a bias towards the mystics...but Hulks strength is very much like an enchantment...limitless strength and all. Hell, it even impressed the Beyonder.

And in any case, enchanted or not...Juggy is as dumb as a bag of nails...and the fact is, he couldn't stop the hulk...

I just can't let that one slide.

Marvel is biased when it comes to Mystics? That's complete and utter bullshit. If they really were that biased, Hulk would be long dead and wouldn't have been capable of "breaking" Dr.Strange's astral hands. Just look at the way Strange has been depicted lately, then look at your stupid post.

The Hulk did in fact move when Juggernaut started pushing, you can clearly tell that he's slowly being pushed backwards. Just look at his traces. Hulk could NEVER, EVER beat Juggernaut. Why? The Juggernaut doesn't tire and he can't be hurt physically.

Originally posted by llagrok
Hulk could NEVER, EVER beat Juggernaut. Why? The Juggernaut doesn't tire and he can't be hurt physically.

Plain and simple.👆

hulks fans are just too hard to argue with. they just say "hulk will get angrier, heal and be stronger" or "hulk has limitless strength".

hulk is faster than the juggernaut, more agile and can probably jump further. juggernaut is stronger, pretty much indestructible as far as the hulk goes, and doesnt get tired. i cant see how hulk can possibly win, or how juggernaut can possibly lose. juggernaut can hurt the hulk, he might heal very quickly, but not instantly. so its possible for the juggernaut to win, and impossible for the hulk to win. the comic pretty much showed that.

they fought, hulk kind of conceded that juggernaut was better than him pre wwh, and told him that it didnt count because now hes much stronger. they fought, hulk couldnt get any kind of advantage so he sidestepped the juggernaut and took off before he got back.

like in their first fight, hulk could probably throw juggernaut around a bit, look like hes actually doing some damage, but each time the juggernaut would get up unphased and wonder why the hulk thought hed hurt him when he is in fact completely indestructible.

hulk might win though bfr, but thats it. he cant beat down juggernaut, but juggernaut can, given the time, beat down hulk.

Im a Hulk fan but as i stated before, in a correctly written fight Hulk can't win no matter how strong he becomes. Idisagree with the view that Juggernaut is stronger in pure strength, but Classic Juggernaut is completely indestructible and is impossible to hurt through physical means, even if he's not using his forcefield-whilew Hulk is 'merely' very durable.JUggy also has superior stamina. Hulk can exert himself for days but Juggernaut has unlimited stamina as he is constantly energized by the power of Cyttorak. A fight between the 2 would be long and hard, but i'm afraid Juggernaut would take it

War Hulk stopped/raped/ trashed The Juggernaut.

World War Hulk stopped him even easier. If the hulk did not jobbed (as he said in Avengers #5 the iniatitive) he would have killed him horribly.

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
War Hulk stopped/raped/ trashed The Juggernaut.

World War Hulk stopped him even easier. If the hulk did not jobbed (as he said in Avengers #5 the iniatitive) he would have killed him horribly.


How would Hulk kill Juggernaut Mr Retard?

As much as i would like Hulk to destroy a full powered Juggernaut, it can't (or shouldn't) happen as he is indestructable and can't be harmed at all-he is protected by the magic of Cytorrak.It was a major feat for WWH to only just get pushed back a bit by Juggernaut, in World War Hulk😘men #3, as Juggy's ability to move forward is part of the enchantment from Cytorrak, not just strength

Originally posted by DEVILHULK
War Hulk stopped/raped/ trashed The Juggernaut.

World War Hulk stopped him even easier. If the hulk did not jobbed (as he said in Avengers #5 the iniatitive) he would have killed him horribly.

Jobbing means to go down when you shouldn't, so no matter what was said, the Hulk didn't job :/