Torn Between Worlds

I've got a scenario for any and all of you who beleive in the realms of Heaven and Hell...

Let's say that you, being a good Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. follower of God end up in Heaven, to stay for all eternity, and be with God.

But, someone you love dearly, more than anyone else on Earth (your lover, your mother, your father, brother, best freind, etc.) ended up in Hell ....

You ask God to forgive them, and bring that person with you in Heaven, but he says No. That they had thier chance on Earth, and now they are damned to an Eternity in Hell, while you are here with God in the Glory of Heaven.

What would you do?

How would you feel ?

I'd eat a donut.

A serious answer would be nice... 🙄

Originally posted by Goddess Kali
I've got a scenario for any and all of you who beleive in the realms of Heaven and Hell...

Let's say that you, being a good Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. follower of God end up in Heaven, to stay for all eternity, and be with God.

But, someone you love dearly, more than anyone else on Earth (your lover, your mother, your father, brother, best freind, etc.) ended up in Hell ....

You ask God to forgive them, and bring that person with you in Heaven, but he says No. That they had thier chance on Earth, and now they are damned to an Eternity in Hell, while you are here with God in the Glory of Heaven.

What would you do?

How would you feel ?

God would forgive the person, and release them from hell.

Well if I did believe I would choose to go to hell and suffer with my loved one.

Originally posted by PITT_HAPPENS
Well if I did believe I would choose to go to hell and suffer with my loved one.

But according to Christian mythology, god could not let even one of his saints suffer. God would have no choice but forgive everyone and empty hell.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But according to Christian mythology, god could not let even one of his saints suffer. God would have no choice but forgive everyone and empty hell.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But according to Christian mythology, god could not let even one of his saints suffer. God would have no choice but forgive everyone and empty hell.

Its not that he has no choice, it is what he is going to do. Revelations describe that great lake of fire that everyone is thrown in to and in most modern bibles it says they will be there for eternity. However the world translated as eternity was translated elsewhere in the Bible as an Age upon Ages.

eternal punishment," the topic of the "unpardonable sin" is usually raised. The "unpardonable sin" is a reference to blasphemy against the Holy spirit. This sin is mentioned in Mark's Gospel:

MARK 3:28 "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never [eis ton aiona] has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal [aioniou] condemnation" -- 30 because they said, "He has an unclean spirit." (NKJV)

On the surface, this Scripture appears to say, in a very straightforward manner, that there is no forgiveness for blaspheming the Holy Spirit. However, an accurate English translation of the underlying Greek text and comparison to the parallel account in Matthew 12:31-32 significantly changes the meaning of this passage:

MARK 3:28 "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit does not have forgiveness to the age [eis ton aiona], but is subject to age-lasting [aioniou] condemnation" -- 30 because they said, "He has an unclean spirit." (literal)

MATTHEW 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age [aioni] or in the one to come." (literal)

As the literal translation of Mark 3:28-30 shows, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven "to the age" and those who blaspheme God's Spirit will be subject to "age-lasting condemnation." Matthew's account fully supports this, stating that those who speak against the Holy Spirit won't have forgiveness in the current AGE (before the establishment of the kingdom of God on earth) or in the AGE TO COME (when Yeshua/Christ if you prefer reigns from Zion). However, the prospect for forgiveness after this time period is not addressed. The implication of specifying the two time periods where forgiveness won't be possible is that, after this time passes, forgiveness may become available.

It is the biblical reference to purgatory.

you rock Gav

Have to put four years worth of study to use somewhere!

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Have to put four years worth of study to use somewhere!

😆 😆

I like to see religion potrayed the way you and other less extreme members do. Sure we disagree about it, but I could imagine being your neighbour, whereas SOME PEOPLE, not so much 😉

Originally posted by inimalist
😆 😆

I like to see religion potrayed the way you and other less extreme members do. Sure we disagree about it, but I could imagine being your neighbour, whereas SOME PEOPLE, not so much 😉

Nice blue text there, yeah religion is a great thing to talk about, aslong as you dont let it get too heated and start fighting over it.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Nice blue text there, yeah religion is a great thing to talk about, aslong as you dont let it get too heated and start fighting over it.

haha

so, my question to you is, am I ****ed?

I've in fact eaten part of the bible (the books of Timothy stole my name), and will probably never repent.

Is God just going to laugh at me as I go to the lake of fire, or is the fact that I am a good, kind person (or we can pretend I a for the sake of argument) going to be worth anything?

Well, I don't think chewing up and eating a bible is something a good kind person would do...that could really upset allot of people. I know the whole "its just a book" thing will no doubt come up here but its what it symbolises, which is very important, like when people invade a nation they destroy its symbols to break the people.

However, sadly I don't have God's ear when it comes to judgement so I couldn't tell you what will happen to you...if revelations is true.

Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Its not that he has no choice, ...

What I mean is: if god did not free the people from hell, then the saint, who are filled with love, will suffer. That is what I mean by "no choice". What I should have said is that god would not have any good choice.

God's love is infinite and perfect, but also is his justice.

The ones going to hell are the ones who have made the decision to be away from God's love. We are able to make this decision only within our lifetime, after death you can't change your decision. God in his perfect justice gives you according to the path you have chosen in life and according to what have been given to you.

Figures of fire, punishment, etc are often used to describe hell, but nobody has been there and returned and then tell us about it. My personnel belief, and I can be wrong, is that is a state in which your soul is trapped in your egoism, your egocentrism, your lack of love, hate etc. that prevents you to be part of the true happiness that come only from God's love.

God doesn't keep people in hell because he is tiranic or he doesn't listen to our prayers, but because his justice is perfect, and every one of us is responsible of the decisions we make.

Originally posted by darkfan76
God's love is infinite and perfect, but also is his justice.

The ones going to hell are the ones who have made the decision to be away from God's love. We are able to make this decision only within our lifetime, after death you can't change your decision. God in his perfect justice gives you according to the path you have chosen in life and according to what have been given to you.

Figures of fire, punishment, etc are often used to describe hell, but nobody has been there and returned and then tell us about it. My personnel belief, and I can be wrong, is that is a state in which your soul is trapped in your egoism, your egocentrism, your lack of love, hate etc. that prevents you to be part of the true happiness that come only from God's love.

God doesn't keep people in hell because he is tiranic or he doesn't listen to our prayers, but because his justice is perfect, and every one of us is responsible of the decisions we make.

Then once the saints are with god and filled with love, how will they feel about those who are suffering, even if it is just because of a choice they made? If the saints are truly filled with love, then they will suffer for those who suffer. That is how love works; someone who is happy cannot be happy is someone else is sad.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
What I mean is: if god did not free the people from hell, then the saint, who are filled with love, will suffer. That is what I mean by "no choice". What I should have said is that god would not have any good choice.

Those in hell will stay there, not because God is not merciful, but because they don't want to be saved. Asking for God's forgiveness is an act of love , which they are not capable of.

I think the idea of hell is terrible.The idea that those who don't belive in the big man are going to hell is ridiculous.A Buddhist monk who has lived in peaceful solitude for all his life will burn in hell,yet a child molester or murderer can commit terrible crimes and ask for forgiveness and he becomes better than the Buddhist monk?Because he fears god?

Clearly such a god would at best,be considered delusional.Christians think they are safe from the terrors of hell,but to other religions this is only a fleeting delusion.If your Christian,Muslim fundementalist will claim your going to hell.If your a Christian,everyone else goes to hell,etc.It doesn't matter what you belive because your never safe.According to some other religous tradition you are going to burn in hell no matter how good your are.

I understand why people belive in hell.It justifies that bad people are punished for their earthly crimes.It falls apart when we look at good people who don't follow a certain religous tradition still will sufer.It's as if a god put guilt by association on everyone else besides his followers because he is too lazy to sort through the good in people with other belifes.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Then once the saints are with god and filled with love, how will they feel about those who are suffering, even if it is just because of a choice they made? If the saints are truly filled with love, then they will suffer for those who suffer. That is how love works; someone who is happy cannot be happy is someone else is sad.

Perhaps a little sad, Who knows? But they will respect the decision of the condemed, as God does, but What about the infinite joy of being with God?

About "If the saints are truly filled with love, then they will suffer for those who suffer" is just your opinion, your own conclusion. Respectable, but only that.

"That is how love works; someone who is happy cannot be happy is someone else is sad" I guess you realize that this is only your opinion, since you assume that the happiness in Heaven is like the happiness, . as we know it right now.

Truth is that we do not really know heaven or hell are. Haven't been there, 😛 We all have is figures and metaphores, since eternity,infinity are ideas that are unimaginable for us right now, finite beings and limited in time.