H/P doomsday vs. Thanos with the Orb Of Morg

Originally posted by darthgoober
But if there the ONLY showings....

I meant that the part where he had the orb was valid. Think about it, he obviously got more power from the HOTU upgrade then he did while possessing the orb, so the entire fight's valid. And I tend to harp on the validity of the fight because people are always trying to dismiss the fight because of the orb. But since he's more powerful now than he was when he had the orb(and actually added the energy to his own reserves), we know that he could do even better in the fight now(which makes the fight usable as evidence).

Neither did I at first, I had to check my library(so don't worry about it 🙂 ).

Originally posted by darthgoober
I meant that the part where he had the orb was valid. Think about it, he obviously got more power from the HOTU upgrade then he did while possessing the orb, so the entire fight's valid. And I tend to harp on the validity of the fight because people are always trying to dismiss the fight because of the orb. But since he's more powerful now than he was when he had the orb(and actually added the energy to his own reserves), we know that he could do even better in the fight now(which makes the fight usable as evidence).

then you are speculating that the hotu upgrades were=>orb's ability to amp his energy for that tyrant fight. can't really say that definitively. comparing thanos before and after the hotu debacle is hard to do. he was more powerful, but how MUCH more powerful is pretty much impossible to say. we always use the most current versions in debates, so the tyrant fight is meaningless anyway. 😬

Originally posted by quanchi112
to me sometimes i hate the clone, avatar business. but with what thanos was doing in celestial quest it makes perfect sense that it wasnt the real deal, in my opinion. darthgoober in ur opinion whos more powerful tyrant or odin?

Originally posted by leonidas
then you are speculating that the hotu upgrades were=>orb's ability to amp his energy for that tyrant fight. can't really say that definitively. comparing thanos before and after the hotu debacle is hard to do. he was more powerful, but how MUCH more powerful is pretty much impossible to say. we always use the most current versions in debates, so the tyrant fight is meaningless anyway. 😬

Originally posted by darthgoober
I'd easily put Tyrant at full power over Odin by a decent margin. As for the depowered version....I really couldn't say because a lack of showings on his part. He DID defeat 6 top tiers simultaneously, but Odin seemed to have an easier time taking out Surfer and Drax than Tyrant did. So I'd probably say that Odin was more powerful, but probably not by very much(if Odin was a 10, Tyrant would be an 8 or 9).

Originally posted by quanchi112
see to me i give depowerd tyrant a nod over odin. in the two fights with thanos. thanos was definitely in better shape in the odin fight and it lasted longer. in the tyrant fight he left becuz he knew if he stayed that he would most likely die. tyrant in his depowered state was beating galactus in silver surfer 108. tyrant never lost to anyone outside galactus.

Originally posted by darthgoober
I honestly think he did better against Tyrant than he did against Odin. Against Odin Thanos got in a shot or two and kept getting back up, but he didn't really mount an effective offense. He got knocked around a lot by Tyrant, but his offense was much more effective than it was against Odin.

Originally posted by quanchi112
look at the damage on thanos though compared to when he fought odin. he was singed against odin but against tyrant he looked worse. thanos left against tyrant. against odin he was going to press on. thanos isnt stupid and belived he still had a shcnace in the odin fight as opposed to the tyrant one where he knew he should leave cuz he really could get killed. its a shame but i thought tyrant was very cool and his run was way to short. he has no losses against anyone other than big g. that was when he was fully powered to. depowered tyrant didnt lose. i dont think odin could walyz in and challenge galactus and have him bleed and make him scared like tyrant did.

Originally posted by darthgoober
His blast against Galactus and Maker were obviously more powerful than his blast against Tyrant, so I think that's a pretty clear indication.

then you get into the whole debate about whether tyrant was more powerful than odin, something that is anything but clear. imo tyrant was likely about = odin.

ss's showing against odin (which you used as a comparison above) was later contradicted as odin needed ss's powers to help bill and even odin was shocked by ss's power. inconsistent showings make the comparisons enormously difficult. i still see no way to determine the affects of the orb vs the affects of the hotu power-up, but, it doesn't matter that much to me to continue with the debate.

good discussion though. 🙂

Originally posted by leonidas
then you get into the whole debate about whether tyrant was more powerful than odin, something that is anything but clear. imo tyrant was likely about = odin.

ss's showing against odin (which you used as a comparison above) was later contradicted as odin needed ss's powers to help bill and even odin was shocked by ss's power. inconsistent showings make the comparisons enormously difficult. i still see no way to determine the affects of the orb vs the affects of the hotu power-up, but, it doesn't matter that much to me to continue with the debate.

good discussion though. 🙂

I don't remember Odin being surprised by Surfer's power, just shocked that Surfer up and altered the form of Bill's hammer in the middle of the procedure. And anyway, Odin needing Surfer's help REEKS of PIS since all Surfer was supposed to do was kill the virus while Odin repaired the cellular damage. I mean come on, he's the All Father but he can't kill a virus?

I agree 🙂 .

Originally posted by darthgoober
But you have to remember that Thanos and the rest considered Thor to be a threat to the entire universe and Odin was their only shot at curing him. That's some powerful motivation not to retreat the way he did with Tyrant. And even though Tyrant doesn't have any losses to anyone but Galactus, he was still unable to one shot Surfer the way that Odin did, and he was affected more by the blast's from Surfer than Odin was also.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Ok here's the way I see it. IF Thanos's power was actually increased by the Orb during his fight with Tyrant, then it's a logical assumption that he used the orb to power himself up permanently since he ended up with it when the dust cleared and you saw him doing SOMETHING with it at the end of the issue. The only way it would make sense for him to do otherwise, is if it wasn't really all that much of a powerup in the first place. Either way, the Tyrant fight becomes a valid feat as a gauge for Thanos's power.

Not sure if this is still a topic (i tried to read all the post after)

Thanos definetly used the orb for more than a bashing weapon,he might have only used the orb like a blaster gun,but it definetly was used more than a bashing melee weapon.....is the question did he power himself up for the tyrant battle with the orb....i say yes

Now is the question did thanos power up with the orb after the tyrant fight when he probes it.......yes imo thanos equating knowledge with power would lead me to believe so

Just my opinion...but i can say he used the orb for more than a bashing weapon while he fought tyrant there is no doubt in my mind...but its hard for me to tell if anyone is actually saying that it was just a bashing weapon?

Originally posted by starlock
Not sure if this is still a topic (i tried to read all the post after)

Thanos definetly used the orb for more than a bashing weapon,he might have only used the orb like a blaster gun,but it definetly was used more than a bashing melee weapon.....is the question did he power himself up for the tyrant battle with the orb....i say yes

Now is the question did thanos power up with the orb after the tyrant fight when he probes it.......yes imo thanos equating knowledge with power would lead me to believe so

Just my opinion...but i can say he used the orb for more than a bashing weapon while he fought tyrant there is no doubt in my mind...but its hard for me to tell if anyone is actually saying that it was just a bashing weapon?

Originally posted by leonidas
😂

you used the same argument i would have! 😄 ie-- thanos created the clone, so obviously whatever power it has, he would have. it's not a baseless argument, but we have no idea when the clones were created. for all we know he may have created it/them BEFORE the tyrant arc. beyond that, CQ took place in what, 2002? CP where thanos confronted tyrant was what, 93, 94? that's like 8 years this supposed power cosmic upgrade took to manifest? still not buying. he references knowing it makes him go mad. what incident is he referencing? when else, before or after, has he shown power cosmic? then of course there is the fact that regardless of how you want to couch it, it IS a clone, and not thanos.

Plus, the panels says that he has used the power more than once, so it's not like, even if we follow real time, that it took eight years to manifest.

Not everything has to be drawn to know it happened. He knows the effects, etc.
It says that he has used it before, and a clone brings it up now.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree the retcons -- ALL of them -- are ridiculous, but, like his ridiculous power-ups, they are also part of his character. 😬

He also turned away Death, like he did in his mini series, so...

Of course, it could just have to do with Starlin ret-conning anything that he wasn't involved with...

Originally posted by leonidas
the CQ mini was utterly ridiculous from the get-go, imo. i'd just as soon write that display of 'power cosmic' off as writer-stupidity (something i try desperately and at all times to avoid . . .) and see no real reason to place any stock in the scene. even allowing for it to mean what you WANT it to mean for a moment, it seems to go against what you were saying earlier -- would thanos upgrade himself with a power he can't even control? all that studying, the ability to integrate it, and he . . . can't control it?? someone who has handled the hotu and the IG can't handle the power that adding morg's PC would give him?? 😑

Originally posted by leonidas
sorry, bran. i respect your opinions but whole-heartedly disagree with them in this case. to me, the orb was a weapon he used, then studied, not something he absorbed into himself and permanently powered himself up with. there is no REASON it needs to be anything more than that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
thanos throws the orb in the distance and doesnt need it. he beats doomsday. darkseid is watching in fear that he may be spotted by either combatant in the distance.

funniest post ever